Scott moves in with pack of Jaguars
Jul 24, 2002, 7:30 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
Hold the phone here folks...
If people are reading this as something OTHER than a snotty remark, then they are once again under the spell of the Great an d Powerful Oz.
Mark posted in the wrong forum - not the first time it has happened and certainly not the last. Most people with manners and self-restraint would simply have posted a remark like, "Perhaps this belongs in ..." message.
But no, how could we expect such civility here? We are online, that means Oz's Mr. Hyde personality rules. Apprently misposted messages are now added to his list of high crimes - right up with multiple online personalities, apparently. Right, janetjet? Right, molsonmiler?
Having contributed to online communities since the early 1980's on BBS's (remember them?), I've always been fascinated by disconnect between online and offline behavior. People post things here they would never DREAM of saying in person.
From all accounts I've heard, Oz is a charming and witty person in person.
I don't know whether he feels compelled to be aggressive online or is merely lacks the testicular fortitude to use his online personality in the real world.
But Oz does raise a good point. Mark, shame on your for misposting!
Thank God we have Oz to police Flyertalk! Our guardian of Flyertalk Terms of Service!
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
Scott moves in with pack of Jaguars
Might the CORRECT Forum for your thread heading perchance be? :
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/002044.html
Very sad. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
[/B]</font>
Scott moves in with pack of Jaguars
Might the CORRECT Forum for your thread heading perchance be? :
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/002044.html
Very sad. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
[/B]</font>
Mark posted in the wrong forum - not the first time it has happened and certainly not the last. Most people with manners and self-restraint would simply have posted a remark like, "Perhaps this belongs in ..." message.
But no, how could we expect such civility here? We are online, that means Oz's Mr. Hyde personality rules. Apprently misposted messages are now added to his list of high crimes - right up with multiple online personalities, apparently. Right, janetjet? Right, molsonmiler?
Having contributed to online communities since the early 1980's on BBS's (remember them?), I've always been fascinated by disconnect between online and offline behavior. People post things here they would never DREAM of saying in person.
From all accounts I've heard, Oz is a charming and witty person in person.
I don't know whether he feels compelled to be aggressive online or is merely lacks the testicular fortitude to use his online personality in the real world.
But Oz does raise a good point. Mark, shame on your for misposting!
Thank God we have Oz to police Flyertalk! Our guardian of Flyertalk Terms of Service!
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 8:10 am
#17
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Hold the phone here folks...
If people are reading this as something OTHER than a snotty remark, then they are once again under the spell of the Great and Powerful Oz...
[/QUOTE]
---
He made an error, for sure! But whose perfect? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Not me, certainly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
---
--
Thanks very much for your kind clarification Scott.
The "problem" apparently stems from CameraGuy's assault upon my initial post in the attendant thread when he wrongfully asserted that it "NEVER had anything to do with community. It NEVER should have been started in the first place. It was simply flame bait, nothing more." As I'd noted therein, his definition of "flame bait" seemingly is "any post made by someone that a given individual does not like, which preceeds a disdainful comment subsequently made by the inherently more rightful individual, thereby absolving them from any responsibility for their own unnecessarily disparaging remark(s) against anyone!"
Silly me! I'd actually thought that his post was "flame bait!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
And it also had somehow seemed to me that you were possibly agreeing with him, and perhaps looking to go a few rounds! Glad to learn that you were not!
No sweat, in any case! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
FWIW, I believe that many here, including Oz, and myself as well, may have made a simple, honest, mistake(s).
And I share your well expressed sentiments about us all moving past this unfortunate episode and getting back to miles, points and travel.
Have a great day all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
If people are reading this as something OTHER than a snotty remark, then they are once again under the spell of the Great and Powerful Oz...
[/QUOTE]
---
He made an error, for sure! But whose perfect? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Not me, certainly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
---
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ScottC:
...Mark, I referred to that thread as being "flame bait" because it was a flame war, it had become nasty much earlier (admittedly I also had a part in it) and therefore imho Glen's posting to it just invited more people to join in on the flaming, perhaps my words were chosen incorrectly, let's not forget that english isn't my primary language... It was not my intention to flame, cause grief or harass anybody...
...Markbach made an honest mistake, he corrected it but Glen didn't see the corrected post in Omni and probably saw this thread as yet another flame, an understandable reaction, my apologies to Glen for my unfriendly response, once more it was not my intention to get him involved in anything or to mock his response.
In the wise words of this sites owner, let's all get back to miles and points...</font>
...Mark, I referred to that thread as being "flame bait" because it was a flame war, it had become nasty much earlier (admittedly I also had a part in it) and therefore imho Glen's posting to it just invited more people to join in on the flaming, perhaps my words were chosen incorrectly, let's not forget that english isn't my primary language... It was not my intention to flame, cause grief or harass anybody...
...Markbach made an honest mistake, he corrected it but Glen didn't see the corrected post in Omni and probably saw this thread as yet another flame, an understandable reaction, my apologies to Glen for my unfriendly response, once more it was not my intention to get him involved in anything or to mock his response.
In the wise words of this sites owner, let's all get back to miles and points...</font>
Thanks very much for your kind clarification Scott.
The "problem" apparently stems from CameraGuy's assault upon my initial post in the attendant thread when he wrongfully asserted that it "NEVER had anything to do with community. It NEVER should have been started in the first place. It was simply flame bait, nothing more." As I'd noted therein, his definition of "flame bait" seemingly is "any post made by someone that a given individual does not like, which preceeds a disdainful comment subsequently made by the inherently more rightful individual, thereby absolving them from any responsibility for their own unnecessarily disparaging remark(s) against anyone!"
Silly me! I'd actually thought that his post was "flame bait!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
And it also had somehow seemed to me that you were possibly agreeing with him, and perhaps looking to go a few rounds! Glad to learn that you were not!
No sweat, in any case! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
FWIW, I believe that many here, including Oz, and myself as well, may have made a simple, honest, mistake(s).
And I share your well expressed sentiments about us all moving past this unfortunate episode and getting back to miles, points and travel.
Have a great day all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Jul 24, 2002, 8:16 am
#18
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Northeast MA, USA.
Programs: HHonors Diamond, DL Silver, TSA Harassee
Posts: 3,657
doc,
You make an excellent suggestion regarding the topics of miles and points.
I have a legitimate question.
What did your thread about the 10K club have to do with Points, Miles or Travel?
You make an excellent suggestion regarding the topics of miles and points.
I have a legitimate question.
What did your thread about the 10K club have to do with Points, Miles or Travel?
Jul 24, 2002, 8:42 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
Doc
This is not just a "nobody's perfect ... we all make mistakes" issue.
This is not a case of using the wrong fork at dinner. This is a pattern. Time and time and time again whenever the opportunity presents itself, out comes the flamer thrower. And of all targets, markbach?!? If this was one of people who'd crossed swords with him in the past, that is one thing. But markbach?!?
To claim "innocent mistake/nobody's perfect" as if this were a rare indiscretion, you must ignore a large number of posts. As the human FlyerTalk search engine (a title I bestow with affection - not malice), you certainly know this.
It is true that nobody is perfect and that we all make mistakes. But to raise these points in this debate is intellectually dishonest.
Quite frankly, there are too many enablers of this sociopathic behavior, not just in Flyertalk, but in general. In this mad rush to make everyone feel good, and avoiding the cardinal sin of possibly offending, people who attempt to honor social norms put up with lunacy from people who do not feel constrained by such "archaic" principles.
Doc, we've corresponded publicly and privately over the years. We've swapped stories on the joys of parenthood. Let me ask you - if your son were to exhibit this behavior, would you turn a blind eye under the auspices of "everyone makes mistakes" or would you call him to task on it after repeated transgressions?
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
This is not just a "nobody's perfect ... we all make mistakes" issue.
This is not a case of using the wrong fork at dinner. This is a pattern. Time and time and time again whenever the opportunity presents itself, out comes the flamer thrower. And of all targets, markbach?!? If this was one of people who'd crossed swords with him in the past, that is one thing. But markbach?!?
To claim "innocent mistake/nobody's perfect" as if this were a rare indiscretion, you must ignore a large number of posts. As the human FlyerTalk search engine (a title I bestow with affection - not malice), you certainly know this.
It is true that nobody is perfect and that we all make mistakes. But to raise these points in this debate is intellectually dishonest.
Quite frankly, there are too many enablers of this sociopathic behavior, not just in Flyertalk, but in general. In this mad rush to make everyone feel good, and avoiding the cardinal sin of possibly offending, people who attempt to honor social norms put up with lunacy from people who do not feel constrained by such "archaic" principles.
Doc, we've corresponded publicly and privately over the years. We've swapped stories on the joys of parenthood. Let me ask you - if your son were to exhibit this behavior, would you turn a blind eye under the auspices of "everyone makes mistakes" or would you call him to task on it after repeated transgressions?
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 10:02 am
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
doc,
You make an excellent suggestion regarding the topics of miles and points.
I have a legitimate question.
What did your thread about the 10K club have to do with Points, Miles or Travel?</font>
doc,
You make an excellent suggestion regarding the topics of miles and points.
I have a legitimate question.
What did your thread about the 10K club have to do with Points, Miles or Travel?</font>
FLAME BAIT, FLAME BAIT!!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
While I usually attempt to not respond to such, may I please ask, "Is this a trick question?"
With all due respect, it was actually posted in FT Community, remember? Or were you perhaps too "busy" stuck in "automatic harassment mode" to even notice! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
---
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
CozumelJen:
This thread has NEVER had anything to do with community. It NEVER should have been started in the first place. It was simply flame bait, nothing more.
To nobody in particular: Me thinks certain people protest the post count meter WAY too much.</font>
CozumelJen:
This thread has NEVER had anything to do with community. It NEVER should have been started in the first place. It was simply flame bait, nothing more.
To nobody in particular: Me thinks certain people protest the post count meter WAY too much.</font>
"Flame bait!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
The definition of which seemingly is "any post made by someone that a given individual does not like, which preceeds a disdainful comment subsequently made by the inherently more rightful individual, thereby absolving them from any responsibility for their own unnecessarily disparaging remark(s) against anyone!"
A remarkably laughable post that should NEVER have been made, IMHO, but thanks nontheless, for the Pythonesque commentary and the chuckles provided! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
For more bait, please see:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000616.html
Have a great night all!
---
Whatever your point is, as is so often the case, it entirely escapes me! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif
Since we are apparently posing questions here, may I respectfully enquire whether you, in your entire tenure on FT, EVER even attempt to post anything regarding the topic of miles, points, or travel - or even try to be helpful instead of critical?
And perhaps far more importantly, have you ever considered trying to do so in the future? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
I, for one, would surely like to see it - and I would guess that I'm certainly not alone!
Alternatively, you could continue on your current destructive path, as the self-appointed, supposedly sage, albeit renegade "cop" and likely obtain the very same unfortunate results you've experienced in the past!
Why not perhaps just attempt to be part of the solution?
Have a great day, in any case!
---
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jon Toner:
...Doc, we've corresponded publicly and privately over the years. We've swapped stories on the joys of parenthood. Let me ask you - if your son were to exhibit this behavior, would you turn a blind eye under the auspices of "everyone makes mistakes" or would you call him to task on it after repeated transgressions?
</font>
...Doc, we've corresponded publicly and privately over the years. We've swapped stories on the joys of parenthood. Let me ask you - if your son were to exhibit this behavior, would you turn a blind eye under the auspices of "everyone makes mistakes" or would you call him to task on it after repeated transgressions?
</font>
Well admittedly, ya' got me there! As my wife will tell you, and my son will surely agree, I'm far too inclined to punish him! Just last night he "lost" his Playstation2, again, even while he rented a game using his allowance money! A few weeks ago, on our way to see a soccer game at Giants Stadium that he eagerly anticipated, we had to turn back and go home without using the tickets! In both these cases, it was due to behaving in a disrespectful manner, which I just can not even remotely understand, and will simply not tolerate.
FWIW, here, in perhaps some contrast, I do feel that at least part of the problem is that there are a few folks on FT that have kinda' relentlessly picked on Glen now for some time - and thus maybe lead to his perhaps having a bit of "a chip on his shoulder" and to thus trying too hard, and also, unfortunately to perhaps being a bit too quick to mistakenly respond with a less than complimentary reply, as was seemingly the case here.
Without unnecessarily perpetuating this discusssion, in a nutshell, I think I would expect folks to be a bit more tolerant, if not accepting, and to perhaps ignore folks if they can not be somewhat gracious to one another.
In any case, I sincerely do hope it is a problem that can be overcome, and quickly, for the sake of us all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Jul 24, 2002, 10:04 am
#21
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York City, Northern NJ
Programs: AS, AA, Hilton, Hyatt
Posts: 1,041
wow.... some people just have a bit too much free time on their hands........
Jul 24, 2002, 10:28 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Northeast MA, USA.
Programs: HHonors Diamond, DL Silver, TSA Harassee
Posts: 3,657
I should have known better than to ask a simple, legitimate question.
Shame on me.
Shame on me.
Jul 24, 2002, 10:38 am
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CameraGuy:
I should have known better than to ask a simple, legitimate question.
Shame on me.</font>
I should have known better than to ask a simple, legitimate question.
Shame on me.</font>
FLAME BAIT! FLAME BAIT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
As they say, "you can take a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Have a great day everyone! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
-Mark
[This message has been edited by doc (edited 07-24-2002).]
Jul 24, 2002, 10:54 am
#24
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
Well admittedly, ya' got me there! As my wife will tell you, and my son will surely agree, I'm far too inclined to punish him! Just last night he "lost" his Playstation2, again, even while he rented a game using his allowance money! A few weeks ago, on our way to see a soccer game at Giants Stadium that he eagerly anticipated, we had to turn back and go home without using the tickets! In both these cases, it was due to behaving in a disrespectful manner, which I just can not even remotely understand, and will simply not tolerate.
</font>
Well admittedly, ya' got me there! As my wife will tell you, and my son will surely agree, I'm far too inclined to punish him! Just last night he "lost" his Playstation2, again, even while he rented a game using his allowance money! A few weeks ago, on our way to see a soccer game at Giants Stadium that he eagerly anticipated, we had to turn back and go home without using the tickets! In both these cases, it was due to behaving in a disrespectful manner, which I just can not even remotely understand, and will simply not tolerate.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
FWIW, here, in perhaps some contrast, I do feel that at least part of the problem is that there are a few folks on FT that have kinda' relentlessly picked on Glen now for some time - and thus maybe lead to his perhaps having a bit of "a chip on his shoulder" and to thus trying too hard, and also, unfortunately to perhaps being a bit too quick to mistakenly respond with a less than complimentary reply, as was seemingly the case here.
</font>
FWIW, here, in perhaps some contrast, I do feel that at least part of the problem is that there are a few folks on FT that have kinda' relentlessly picked on Glen now for some time - and thus maybe lead to his perhaps having a bit of "a chip on his shoulder" and to thus trying too hard, and also, unfortunately to perhaps being a bit too quick to mistakenly respond with a less than complimentary reply, as was seemingly the case here.
</font>
Please find me ANY post where Markbach has picked on Oz. Hell, find me a post where Mark has picked on ANYBODY! And there is no seemingly about this - please don't use mush words here. This is cut and dried.
I've chatted with Mark a lot, and he's a good guy. He didn't deserve the reaction he received to a simple mis-posting.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Without unnecessarily perpetuating this discusssion, in a nutshell, I think I would expect folks to be a bit more tolerant, if not accepting, and to perhaps ignore folks if they can not be somewhat gracious to one another. </font>
Without unnecessarily perpetuating this discusssion, in a nutshell, I think I would expect folks to be a bit more tolerant, if not accepting, and to perhaps ignore folks if they can not be somewhat gracious to one another. </font>
If anyone here would be sympathetic to this Doc, I'd expect it to be you. How many times have people complained to/about your postings that maybe didn't belong or they thought belonged in a different forum? Are you now saying you deserve that? Are people justified in attacking you over that?
More tolerance feeds the problem. It is a wonderfully sounding word - after all, who could possibly be opposed to "tolerance"? But like anything else - when taken to extremes, the cure is worse than the disease. You are saying that we must show more tolerance to people who start flame wars? Sorry, doc I disagree.
You know me, how many times have I been in the center of a flame war? I typically rolled my eyes at these things and moved on.
This post drew my attention because it is a stark rebuke to Oz's claim that he is an innocent, who gets drawn into conflicts, the victim of some vast-anti-Oz conspiracy. Clearly he was not drawn into this - he created it. Again, what has Mark EVER done to ANYONE here?
I put the question to you directly.
Was Oz's response to Mark's mis-posted thread appropriate?
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 10:58 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boston Ma. USA
Posts: 5,088
Come on everyone. Stop the bickering. Can't we all just get along, and if we can't...then ignore the people you do not get along with.
Maybe we should put a period at the end of this. It is not going to get any better the longer the fighting goes on.
So...I will leave you with a joke. Perhaps it will give you something to think about other than this.
What do you get when you run a bird over with a lawn mower?
Maybe we should put a period at the end of this. It is not going to get any better the longer the fighting goes on.
So...I will leave you with a joke. Perhaps it will give you something to think about other than this.
What do you get when you run a bird over with a lawn mower?
Jul 24, 2002, 11:26 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 37,486
Methinks Shredded tweet? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
Jul 24, 2002, 11:38 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
pointsgirl While I respect your desire for an end to this, and have typically been someone making that argument.
Unfortunately, the people who instigate a lot of this stuff rely on "can't we all get along" so people will stop calling them on it.
And in this particular case especially, over an innocent mistake, I am not going to sit silently by.
Like I said, normally I am in your camp, but in this thread, we must agree to disagree.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Unfortunately, the people who instigate a lot of this stuff rely on "can't we all get along" so people will stop calling them on it.
And in this particular case especially, over an innocent mistake, I am not going to sit silently by.
Like I said, normally I am in your camp, but in this thread, we must agree to disagree.
------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jul 24, 2002, 11:46 am
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Jon- Again, despite some rather intense efforts to avoid it, I've surely been wrong before so...
We expect more from our kids! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
FWIW, put simply as you ask, Oz's response, IMHO, was not appropriate.
While there may well likely be some truth to what you are saying, and I do not wish to parse things too much here, all I'm claiming is that I personally did not see this as a totally isolated incident, nor as a cardinal sin! Moreover, I actually did not see Mark as being horribly offended in this case. I trust that he now knows/accepts that Oz meant no harm, as Oz indicated. Again, I do not know all the details here, and I could easily have missed something important and be wrong.
As I'd said, it was a simple, honest, mistake, based upon an unfortunate misconception, as I personally saw it!
The primary underlying problem here, IMHO, is perhaps in Oz showing minimal, if any, restraint when respoding to perceived attacks! I know, since I occasionally have the very same problem! Hopefully, he'll learn from this, and apologize, make amends, and move on ahead! At least that is what I hope and expect! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
And I sincerely think that "pointsgirl" is really onto something here! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Unfortunately, I have no idea you get when you run a bird over with a lawn mower - and I'm afraid to even hazard a guess! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
I'm back to miles, points and travel, your regularly scheduled programming!
-Mark
We expect more from our kids! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
FWIW, put simply as you ask, Oz's response, IMHO, was not appropriate.
While there may well likely be some truth to what you are saying, and I do not wish to parse things too much here, all I'm claiming is that I personally did not see this as a totally isolated incident, nor as a cardinal sin! Moreover, I actually did not see Mark as being horribly offended in this case. I trust that he now knows/accepts that Oz meant no harm, as Oz indicated. Again, I do not know all the details here, and I could easily have missed something important and be wrong.
As I'd said, it was a simple, honest, mistake, based upon an unfortunate misconception, as I personally saw it!
The primary underlying problem here, IMHO, is perhaps in Oz showing minimal, if any, restraint when respoding to perceived attacks! I know, since I occasionally have the very same problem! Hopefully, he'll learn from this, and apologize, make amends, and move on ahead! At least that is what I hope and expect! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
And I sincerely think that "pointsgirl" is really onto something here! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Unfortunately, I have no idea you get when you run a bird over with a lawn mower - and I'm afraid to even hazard a guess! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
I'm back to miles, points and travel, your regularly scheduled programming!
-Mark
Jul 24, 2002, 11:58 am
#29
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boston Ma. USA
Posts: 5,088
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ScottC:
Methinks Shredded tweet? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>
Methinks Shredded tweet? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>
Ohhh very good!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I am impressed!!
Jul 24, 2002, 11:59 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York City, Northern NJ
Programs: AS, AA, Hilton, Hyatt
Posts: 1,041
this reminds me of the whole israeli/palestinian situation..... they can't stop fighting cause they hate each other, they hate each other cause they don't know any better. They can't agree on how/when to stop, so they keep fighting. At some point one party has to stop the stupid attacks and comments. Where is that moderator when you need him/her? STOP THIS SILLY THREAD.