BoSoxFan45

Everything prior to the last three paragraphs of my post was a joke, and so explicitly stated.

Packs of wild unsupervised dogs? And you thought I was serious?

But your comments about dogs and their utility is pretty ignorant. It is true, dogs get tired and bored. They can work only about 4 hours a day before they get bored. But they do work for free, and the handlers don't make that much.

And no, they don't let the dogs go a day without finding something. They ALWAYS plant something as a setup and let the dog find it so he or she thinks they have done their job and get tons of praise.

To avoid the "hump factor", I presume that the dogs both male and female would be fixed, as all law enforcement dogs are.

The comment about the SF situation was also inapporpriate. 99.999% of domesticated dogs would not do something like that. Those dogs were genetically bred and trained killers. The labrador retrievers and German shepards used in explosive or narcotic detection and other law enforcement are highly intelligent creatures with abilities we can't even comprehend.

One of these breeds' sense of smell is something like 60 times as strong as a human's. That sensory aspect of their brain is far more developed than any human or machine. Who is finding the bodies at the WTC?

I would rather have a K-9 unit or two at every checkpoint sniffing everyone down than some pimple-faced 19 year old with an automatic weapon telling jokes to his buddy.

If you are going to make accusations about an alleged violent or uncontrollable nature these wonderfully useful, unselfish, and intelligent creatures, back it up. Sure, my German Shepard would unleash all holy hell on anyone who attacked my wife or any other member of our family, but if I were there, I would too (although probably with a greater sense of self preservation than the dog), just as you would if someone attacked your family. She also obeys every command I give her as if she were a West Point cadet. Domesticated Dogs are not killing machines. In fact, there has never been a report of a WILD WOLF killing a human.

Show me an example- ONE - of a trained detection dog or K-9 police dog in America attacking anyone its handler did not intend for the dog to subdue.

The very fact that you are so terrified of the dog idea lends credence to to the deterrent affect. It's one thing to fear being shot - it's another thing entirely to fear be taken down by a pissed-off police dog. K-9 dogs subdue criminals with guns every day because they are often more terrified of the dog than of the officer's gun. Lord knows how many officer's lives these dogs save every year.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a cop who works with a dog.

mdtony

Relax, man. I was kidding! It's a joke. I love dogs. I had two of them when I was a kid, including a German shepherd, so I know how intelligent and cool those dogs are.

Geez, try to inject a little humor into something and watch the fur fly.

Western Airlines

Actually, according to the highly reliable Animal Planet, dogs have up to 10,000 times better senses of smell than humans.

Doppy

BoSoxFan45-

I hope that post wasn't aimed at me. I think dogs in the airport would be a good idea, I just said they'd need to have some differently trained ones (like the dog trainers mentioned to the guy who was carrying the drugs for them).

I have seen plenty of shows talking about how great the dogs are for the Customs service. The only problem is, when they find what they're looking for, they're jumping and barking all over it.

If you think that's what we want dogs to do to citizens in airports, I don't know what to say. Maybe you support police brutality against innocent citizens.

We can't have dogs trained like that working with everyday law abiding citizens. People are complaining that screeners pat them down or they have to take their shoes off. Don't you think more people would complain about dogs jumping all over them and barking in their faces?

d

thelostshark

Gives new meaning to threatening someone w/ "an army of lawyers" ... tls

Baze

As for the weapons used, there has not been a military full auto rifle since the vietnam war. Too many cases of soldiers panicing and holding the trigger down and emptying their weapon. They are set to 3 round bursts. And yes they do tend to ride up as you fire due to the recoil. The 5.56 bullet was designed for less than 200 yards and was designed to tumble to cause the most damage. There are many documented cases of the bullet entering say a thigh and exiting say a shoulder carving a wide path of destruction along the way. So a guardsperson with an M-16 with a 30 round magazine could do much more damage than one with a 9mm sidearm. And with the 3 round burst there is no chance of a quick burst emptying the magazine.

BoSoxFan45

Shockingly enough, I am against police brutality. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

But, frankly, if a dog smells and explosive on someone and goes nuts barking, I think that's a hell of a lot better reaction than some x-ray jockey missing it altogether.

I don't think innocent citizens would be barked at, slobbered on, jumped on, etc. If they are looking for explosives, etc., and thye find someone with traces of explosives, having a dog bark at them is not something I would worry too much about. If you are worried about a dog biting someone, you absolutely can train a Shepard not to bite or jump- just to bark, and you could also just use a less threatening dog like a Lab or Golden retriever.

Unless an innocent citizen is carrying explosives, I don't think we have to worry much about them being barked at.

Frankly, having guys with big guns scares me, an innocent civilian.

JoeDoakes

I love dogs. Use more dogs. One time, I went to HKK for a week. I had an apple in my backpack to eat on the plane on the way over. I forgot about it and it was still in my pack a week later. My friend and I were standing by the bag carousel in SFO when a customs agent (or maybe FDA? can't recall) with a beagle came by and made a beeline right for me. My friend went completely pale, certain that I had smuggled in some heroin or something. I myself was a bit scared, wondering if someone had planted something in there. Boy, was I glad when they found that apple.

Another time, I was in SYY waiting to go through passport control when I felt a gentle weight on my shoulders and just a tad of warm breath on my neck. A sweet black lab had both paws on my shoulders and was sniffing my backpack. I swear I have no idea why. It didn't drool on me or anything, nor did it ever bark, and reminded me that I must get another lab when I quit traveling so much. I felt much less intimidated by that than I do by people with guns.

I did wonder why I still did not get any extra scrutiny after that and why the dog's handler didn't want to look in my pack. Maybe the dogs start barking or something if they find anything really interesting?

Dogs have better judgement and more discipline than the current crop of homo sapiens working airport security, IMHO, and just as importantly, better breath!

JD

[This message has been edited by JoeDoakes (edited 02-21-2002).]

Bouncer

As an fyi, most of the Nat Guards I've seen are plainly for show.

Unlike their German, Austrian, French and British counterparts I've seen in european airports they have no body armor on and are carrying the wrong type of rifle for the job at hand.

They should be using 9mm/10mm or HK MP5 type weapons which are much more suited for use in that environment. They should have laser mounts on their rifles and pistols. They should also be on a pistol/rifle range every **mn day they work the airport for an hour or so before their shift starts.

You wanna be serious about it, then by god be serious about it. If they ever DO have to engage they will ALREADY be surrounded by both civilians and potential hostiles. They need to be very accurate in their fire and they need to be wearing full ceramic battle armor. I work with the military every day, I respect them very much, but everyone here knows that this truly is a feel good visible measure and not a real, viable quick reaction force.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[This message has been edited by Bouncer (edited 02-21-2002).]

Doppy

Why bother wasting money on body armor and guns when the National Guard is at the airports primarily for window dressing?

Aside from chasing the occasional idiots like the guys who breeched security in Atlanta, they're at the airport to make us feel better. Since 45% of the population is still afraid of flying, the goal seems to make sense.

d

freefaller12k

Dogs can be training to signal in varity of methods. Most taught now are passive like simply laying down next to the offending item or signaling by pawing the item. A little expericence with a dog can teach you to read their body language with amazing accuracy.

A recent posting in Las Vegas for a handler was for 35-55k a year.

Oh, one more thing. I believe the M-16 have a 3-position switch for single-shot, burst (2-3 round), and full-auto. (too many hours of the history channel)



[This message has been edited by freefaller12k (edited 02-26-2002).]