GDIW

Doc -
Non-lethal means of self defense against a terrorist. Do you expect a flight attendant to twist his arm until he says he'll behave?

I know you are opposed to guns, but they are capable of saving lives!

See the offer for Free Training to Pilots at http://www.frontsight.com Maybe the answer is to add FA's to the training list!

jabez

The FAA needs to be more proactive re. calibration and continuing maintenance checks of the security machines.This is the primary reason people are getting through with banned items.That being said, does anyone really expect these savages to now be packing box cutters and knifes? They realize that they would have only a slight chance of not getting stopped at security and then they would not be given the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, these terrible people used our system to take advantage of us.While I agree that we should "tighten-up"our overall security, it sure is sad to see the near-panic approach that has been happening in the air travel business. Just MHO.

doc

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I don't know that I'd actually ever said that! Remember, I've been know to do some target shooting when I was a bit younger. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It's actually killing people that I have trouble with!

And I sincerely do wish to protect the innocent bystander types to whatever extent is humanly possible!


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European airports are more secure than those in the United States according to a recent report.

Tests a year ago found airport screeners in Europe were more than twice as good at catching weapons passing through X-ray machines as those in the United States, according to the investigative arm of the U.S. Congress.

Screeners in Europe are not government employees, as some in Washington arguing for "federalizing" airport security personnel believe. In fact, most work for the same private security companies as their U.S. colleagues.

"They think that in Europe, the government does everything," says the director of aviation security at Securitas AB, Mark Pissens, returning from a lobbying trip to Washington. "That's not what Europe is."

In Europe, security is the responsibility of airports, which must adhere to laws requiring everything from minimum training levels to wages and benefits. In the United States, it is the responsibility of the airlines - a system experts say is inherently problematic.

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2001/10/1002371027.html

[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-06-2001).]

doc

International aviation officials and regulators from 187 countries have agreed to spend more money on strengthening security on planes and in airports.

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2001/10/1002454098.html

NoStressHere

Before reading my following note, I do have concerns over security and the threats are real.

At the same time, if the Flight Attendants and various other groups work hard enough, they might get everything they ask for and at the same time watch the current airline industry fail so bad that most of them will no longer be working.

Life is a balance. After all, 400,000 people die in auto crashes a year, but we do not stop driving.

Making all these changes will NOT change what happened on Sept 11th. Face some reality. What would happen if this was attempted today? Forget all the security measures because it could happen.

What would happen on the plane?

I think most of you know the answer. The passengers and crew would take different actions and bring an immediate stop to it immediately.

There is a good newsletter that sums up much of what has taken place from a security standpoint:
http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram-0109a.html


[This message has been edited by NoStressHere (edited 10-07-2001).]

doc

Allied Pilots Association Cites Need for Immediate Installation of Secure Cockpit Doors, Reiterates Support for Arming Pilots
Union Emphasizes Top Security Priorities Following Cockpit Intrusion Aboard Chicago-Bound American Airlines Flight #1238 on October 8

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011009/datu049_1.html

doc

Senate makes progress on aviation security bill, House Republicans voice opposition

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ss...ash-washington

doc

Senate passes aviation security bill

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/11/rec...ate/index.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/003070.html

doc

The nation's aircraft and airports are no safer today than they were before the terrorist attacks a month ago, the president of the Association of Flight Attendants and several members of the union said Thursday.

The nation's new security procedures are "cosmetic," union president Patricia Friend said during a meeting with several dozen Chicago-based flight attendants.

"We are just as vulnerable to what happened on September 11 as we were on September 10, because all the loopholes are still there," she said.

Checked baggage is still not given the same scrutiny as carry-on belongings, she said, noting that a person can check a bag onto a flight and then not board.

Ground crews and non-flying airline staff do not have to go through the same screenings as pilots, attendants and passengers, she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TRAVEL/NEWS/....ap/index.html


DeLay Rejects Security Shortfalls Within Senate Airline Overhaul

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011011/dcth070_1.html

POWER TO ISSUE EXECUTIVE ORDERS

But in an indication the White House was mulling other options, Fleischer said Bush has the power to issue executive orders to put some reforms in place, such as strengthening cockpit doors and armed marshals on passenger flights, without congressional action.

http://news1.iwon.com/article/id/172...4|reuters.html

[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-12-2001).]

doc

Airport security initiatives raise more questions than answers

Air marshals. Fortified cockpit doors. Federalized airport screeners. Before September 11, few had paid much attention to these terms or to their policy implications...

...But Fuscus admits that it'll be interesting to see whether Americans will continue to put up with these security measures as the months pass by. "Will people become less and less likely to wait in line?" he asked. "That's as good as anybody's guess."

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1001/101201nj2.htm

doc

Flight Attendants Unite in Saying Continued Gaps in Airline Security Risk Lives

The lives of airline passengers and crew members remain at high risk as long as severe gaps in airport and aircraft security remain open to terrorists and their plots, says a group of Flight Attendant unions representing almost 90,000 Flight Attendants.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011015/dcm043_1.html

NoStressHere

From the Press Release:
"Congress must enact legislation NOW that guarantees the security of the cockpit, the implementation of new and expanded training for crew members, and the federalization of security screening. The Flight Attendants are also calling for:

New laws that ensure all checked bags are screened
Positive passenger bag match
The enforcement of a strict limit of one carry-on bag
Mandatory security screening for all catering, ground service personnel
and airport vendors, as well as their equipment

``If even one of these provisions is left out of new legislation, we're leaving gaping holes for terrorists to exploit. That puts our lives and the lives of our passengers at risk, and that's unacceptable,'' said Danny Campbell, Northwest Airlines Flight Attendant and Teamsters Local 2000 President. ``As the frontline workers in airline security, Flight Attendants will not be forced to choose between a job, or a safe job.''

Though I think just about everyone agrees that SOME actions are important, such as securing the cockpit, some of the rest is open to debate.

Meanwhile, the Flight Attendants could "safety" themselves right out of a job.

And, though I defended them for having the occasional 3 carry on bags elsewhere, if they want to continue to battle this in public and strict enforcement, etc, then they must do the same.

AND MOST OF THIS MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO SECURITY, ONLY THE PERCEPTION.


[This message has been edited by NoStressHere (edited 10-15-2001).]

doc

FWIW, Airbus, moving very quickly to devise permanent fixes to make cockpit doors more hijacker-resistant, has reportedly said today that it has now begun to offer a standard design that can be used on all its current & future jetliners.

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How Safe Can We Get?

The system has been vulnerable for years. Marginal improvements aren't enough

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101...bsecurity.html


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Airport baggage screeners fall under close FAA scrutiny

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced yesterday that it intends to make sure that proper background checks are made on baggage screeners employed at major US airports.

http://www.eyeforaerospace.com/index.asp?news=21808




[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-17-2001).]

doc

FBI to Check More Airport Workers

Reports Required on Baggage Screeners, All Employees in Secure Areas

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2001Oct17.html

doc

NWA has now pulled all artificial sweeteners & powdered coffee creamer from all flights over concerns about "white powder" found on 2 flights.

NWA removed packets of the powdery substances last Wednesday to prevent delays and ease fears of an anthrax threat, NWA spokesperson Kurt Ebenhoch said today according to CBS.

Salt and sugar are okay though! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

http://www.usatoday.com/news/attack/...sweeteners.htm


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Feel safe! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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And now Mesa Airlines will be the first U.S. carrier to allow pilots to carry Taser weapons in the cockpit.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/003138.html

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You are really safe now! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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Airport security to be tightened in
Australia nationwide

The Federal Government has announced security will be tightened at 29 airports around Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/...oct2001-85.htm



[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-19-2001).]