We have gone NUTS. Man arrested during "olympic" flight.
Feb 12, 2002, 3:00 am
#46
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by R&R:
Amazing how many posts are refusing to cooperate and share wny responsibility to improve security.
Now that is frightening!</font>
Amazing how many posts are refusing to cooperate and share wny responsibility to improve security.
Now that is frightening!</font>
Anyone with half a brain agrees that 9-11 will and can not happen again,even without all this crazy security. Yet we continue to use it as a reason for taking our freedom away.
Feb 12, 2002, 3:35 am
#47
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Anyone know if they woke up the sleeping passengers so they could put their hands on their heads?
Feb 12, 2002, 4:01 am
#48
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so if someone stands up during the last 30 mins, should you subdue it, or are you guilty. we can increase the governmentese by providing a form with the rules before boarding which all pax must sign.
Feb 12, 2002, 4:03 am
#49
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dupe
[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 02-12-2002).]
[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 02-12-2002).]
[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 02-12-2002).]
[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 02-12-2002).]
Feb 12, 2002, 4:50 am
#50
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soonerman said,'Get over it already. One of the things that makes a civilized society work is the willingness of its citizens to abide by its laws.'
Actually you are in my opinion only partly correct. It is the willingness of the citizens to obey its laws, but that is only possible if, and it is a big if, that the citizens can agree that the laws make sense. Respect of police has decreased as a result of people responding to the enforcement of laws that they don't respect or believe are useful, just like some of the posters above suggest. How many people out there no longer abide by speed limit laws because they do not believe that there is a reason for them to drive 55 with the greater safety and control in cars now. The same can be said of stop signs, under 21 drinking etc. The problem is that people are sheep/stupid. We want government to solve problems and protect us but not inconvience us. When the government says that we need to make all security screeners federal employees because of security lapses, we need to stand up and say think before we change everything.
This same attitude seems to be at work in everything. The federal government takes the first couple of post 9-11 reports and says we will give new york 20 billion dollars. Initial estimates of the cost and time to remove debris from the WTC site have been proven to be wildly overestimated. So what happens, do we now reduce the amount of money that is going to be sent to New york since it is not needed for what we were told it would be spent, NO!!!!!!!!! The New York establishment, republican and democrat says you offered us the money and we want it no matter what. We will find uses for it. The same thing is happening with the survivors families. I am sorry for what they have experienced but I think it is money grubbing. We now have family members suing each other over getting their fair share. I have the greatest respect for the police and for firefighters, so I also do not understand why a firefighter that died in the WTC is any more important than one that died the week before or the week after and had to get by on the insurance package that they are normally given. I did contribute to the Red Cross but to the general fund, as well as a donation to my local firefighters. Actually the fund I believe is most worthy is one that supports the children of US military special forces that are killed in action to get a higher education. The great thing about it is that it works with the survivors family members to put together a plan and then tries to provide additional funds to the families that need it. This would have been a great legacy for the victims of 9-11 to have set up either survivor of terrorist incident funds or ones for police and firefighters that die in the line of duty across the nation. I sadly fear that people are not going to be as supportive to future victims because of the legacy that we are now developing.
------------------
Robert
Actually you are in my opinion only partly correct. It is the willingness of the citizens to obey its laws, but that is only possible if, and it is a big if, that the citizens can agree that the laws make sense. Respect of police has decreased as a result of people responding to the enforcement of laws that they don't respect or believe are useful, just like some of the posters above suggest. How many people out there no longer abide by speed limit laws because they do not believe that there is a reason for them to drive 55 with the greater safety and control in cars now. The same can be said of stop signs, under 21 drinking etc. The problem is that people are sheep/stupid. We want government to solve problems and protect us but not inconvience us. When the government says that we need to make all security screeners federal employees because of security lapses, we need to stand up and say think before we change everything.
This same attitude seems to be at work in everything. The federal government takes the first couple of post 9-11 reports and says we will give new york 20 billion dollars. Initial estimates of the cost and time to remove debris from the WTC site have been proven to be wildly overestimated. So what happens, do we now reduce the amount of money that is going to be sent to New york since it is not needed for what we were told it would be spent, NO!!!!!!!!! The New York establishment, republican and democrat says you offered us the money and we want it no matter what. We will find uses for it. The same thing is happening with the survivors families. I am sorry for what they have experienced but I think it is money grubbing. We now have family members suing each other over getting their fair share. I have the greatest respect for the police and for firefighters, so I also do not understand why a firefighter that died in the WTC is any more important than one that died the week before or the week after and had to get by on the insurance package that they are normally given. I did contribute to the Red Cross but to the general fund, as well as a donation to my local firefighters. Actually the fund I believe is most worthy is one that supports the children of US military special forces that are killed in action to get a higher education. The great thing about it is that it works with the survivors family members to put together a plan and then tries to provide additional funds to the families that need it. This would have been a great legacy for the victims of 9-11 to have set up either survivor of terrorist incident funds or ones for police and firefighters that die in the line of duty across the nation. I sadly fear that people are not going to be as supportive to future victims because of the legacy that we are now developing.
------------------
Robert
Feb 12, 2002, 5:29 am
#51
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Flashes1:
When a crew member tells you to sit down, YOU SIT DOWN! When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore? </font>
When a crew member tells you to sit down, YOU SIT DOWN! When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore? </font>
Feb 12, 2002, 6:00 am
#52
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Flashes1,
Forgive me for asking, but are you an adult? Only children are taught to blindly obey authority, because children often cannot understand the reasons for the orders they are given. For instance, you might tell your 3-year-old that he is never, ever to step into the street. You don't get into a debate about when it might be safe to do so; you just issue an order, and the child must obey it.
Adults don't work that way. They have rights and the ability to understand the basis for an instruction from competent authority. It is OK -- certainly in America, but almost everywhere else, too -- to question authority under most circumstances. If your house is burning down and the fireman says, "Follow me now," that would not be a very good time to enter into such a discussion, but you understand my point.
Finally, where did you get the idea that airport security screeners are authority figures? You must set your standards pretty low! These uneducated cretins and bullies will never be authority figures to me. Sorry.
Bruce
Forgive me for asking, but are you an adult? Only children are taught to blindly obey authority, because children often cannot understand the reasons for the orders they are given. For instance, you might tell your 3-year-old that he is never, ever to step into the street. You don't get into a debate about when it might be safe to do so; you just issue an order, and the child must obey it.
Adults don't work that way. They have rights and the ability to understand the basis for an instruction from competent authority. It is OK -- certainly in America, but almost everywhere else, too -- to question authority under most circumstances. If your house is burning down and the fireman says, "Follow me now," that would not be a very good time to enter into such a discussion, but you understand my point.
Finally, where did you get the idea that airport security screeners are authority figures? You must set your standards pretty low! These uneducated cretins and bullies will never be authority figures to me. Sorry.
Bruce
Feb 12, 2002, 6:41 am
#53
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Flashes1:
When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore? </font>
When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore? </font>
No, I'm not going to follow nonsensical orders blindly from someone who is not qualified to wash my car. There are truly security measures, and then there is BS. Most of these new "measures" are BS so that some politicos "feel good" about doing something.
Feb 12, 2002, 6:51 am
#54
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robvberg:
The same thing is happening with the survivors families. I am sorry for what they have experienced but I think it is money grubbing. </font>
The same thing is happening with the survivors families. I am sorry for what they have experienced but I think it is money grubbing. </font>
We are a nation of victims who apparently can only be "helped" by more government money.
Feb 12, 2002, 7:04 am
#55
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We're getting off topic a bit, but personally, I feel worse about the victims who survive than about the families of those who died. The surviving victims lost their jobs in many cases, still have to pay their rent and eat, and have no Social Security, life insurance or other substantial financial support. The families of the dead are much better off, at least financially, yet they demand still more. I have run out of sympathy for them.
Bruce
Bruce
Feb 12, 2002, 8:01 am
#56
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And when the government tells you to go to Church, YOU GO TO CHURCH!
And when the policeman tells you and your friends that assemblies of groups of 4 or more are prohibited, BOY YOU DISPERSE AND NOW!
And when you are told that the opinion you wrote for the newspaper makes those in authority angry, YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY TO WHAT IS ALLOWED TO BE PRINTED.
And when you are told gun ownership of any kind is now prohibited for your own good, YOU DISARM RIGHT NOW.
And when your reading material becomes prohibited, YOU BURN THOSE BOOKS.
Newsflash: This is supposedly not a police state nor a monarchy. It's allegedly a Republic though with the mandates of late and attitudes like yours, we might as well just learn to goosestep.
------------------
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
And when the policeman tells you and your friends that assemblies of groups of 4 or more are prohibited, BOY YOU DISPERSE AND NOW!
And when you are told that the opinion you wrote for the newspaper makes those in authority angry, YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY TO WHAT IS ALLOWED TO BE PRINTED.
And when you are told gun ownership of any kind is now prohibited for your own good, YOU DISARM RIGHT NOW.
And when your reading material becomes prohibited, YOU BURN THOSE BOOKS.
Newsflash: This is supposedly not a police state nor a monarchy. It's allegedly a Republic though with the mandates of late and attitudes like yours, we might as well just learn to goosestep.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Flashes1:
When a crew member tells you to sit down, YOU SIT DOWN! When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore?
Sky Marshals have police authority. If a cop tells you to raise your arms it's best to raise your arms. I scoff at the whiners on this board. They show no one respect, thus they deserve no respect.
You reap what you sow.</font>
When a crew member tells you to sit down, YOU SIT DOWN! When a security screener tells you to take off your shoes, YOU TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES. What's the problem with following these instructions? Are our ego's so fragile that we can't listen to authority figures anymore?
Sky Marshals have police authority. If a cop tells you to raise your arms it's best to raise your arms. I scoff at the whiners on this board. They show no one respect, thus they deserve no respect.
You reap what you sow.</font>
------------------
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
Feb 12, 2002, 8:02 am
#57
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
The families of the dead are much better off, at least financially, yet they demand still more. I have run out of sympathy for them. Bruce</font>
The families of the dead are much better off, at least financially, yet they demand still more. I have run out of sympathy for them. Bruce</font>
I do not necessarily agree with you but money talks while B/S walks... Sad but true. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Then again money doesn't stink and bloodmoney is still money for the living.
Feb 12, 2002, 8:36 am
#58
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
George Dukakis stood behind his convictions when posed with the question regarding the death penalty.[/B]</font>
George Dukakis stood behind his convictions when posed with the question regarding the death penalty.[/B]</font>
JD
Feb 12, 2002, 8:42 am
#59
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If airport security did their job, there would no longer be a need for all of these silly rules and we could eat again with metal forks and spoons.
Does anyone feel any safer now that the first class curtains are kept open and we are told not to line up for the lav?
Does anyone feel any safer now that the first class curtains are kept open and we are told not to line up for the lav?
Feb 12, 2002, 8:43 am
#60
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Posts: 31
I have never heard of more than one air marshall on a flight so I would have assumed that these three were hijackers and considered trying to thwart them!
As to putting my hands on my head I could not do that for 25 minutes so I guess they would have had to kill me - perhaps when I was younger but no longer. One way to get rid of us older folk I suppose!
As to putting my hands on my head I could not do that for 25 minutes so I guess they would have had to kill me - perhaps when I was younger but no longer. One way to get rid of us older folk I suppose!