I'm going to use Delta as an example of this, but I've seen an offer like this offered by many carriers:

"Fly at least two non-stop or connecting round trips in any paid fare class excluding T, in one or both promotions before April 15, 2004 to earn a free* Award Ticket"

I just went to the Delta website and looked for a r/t flight from JFK-LAX (3/3-3/10). The cheapest fare--of course in T class--is $216. The cheapest flight that would qualify for the above offer is $430. So purchasing two qualifying fares would cost you $860, while I could buy three r/t tickets for $650.

Is it just me, or am I crazy in thinking that in any other industry this would reek of fraud? Why are airlines allowed to play these kinds of games, and how is that this sort of practice is ethically or legally sound? I know nothing about law so any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

I think using the word "fraud" is a bit to much here. Though I understand your where you're coming from. But as long as they have stated all of the rules upfront, I don't see where it can be called fraud.

I also happen to think it's smart business on the part of the airlines. Why "give away the house" to the person paying $216 a ticket when you don't have to.

Almost 20 years ago American Airlines offered a promotion called the "Ultimate Special". And all you had to do was fly (8) segments anywhere, and you earned a free First Class ticket to Hawaii. And while I loved it because we got to go to Hawaii more than once in First Class. It may not have been very profitable for American, as we were able to get our (8) segments for less than $200 without any problem.

I will agree with you though that the airlines to get to do a number of things that seem a little shady when it comes to pricing. Like advertising a fare of $99, and then if you read in the fine print it states that you must buy a roundtrip, plus pay a number of other fees.

So no "fraud" here IMHO.


[This message has been edited by 1123581321 (edited Jan 14, 2004).]

i don't think its fraud when the terms and conditions are clear, which they seem to be on dl.

Those fares are regularly sold for whatever reason. If you need to buy them, and you get two, then you will be "rewarded" with a free ticket. That is not fraud.

Last year some promotions involved flying a number of times in FC/BC to Europe (forgot the airline) and you would receive a free ticket for US travel. Same thing.

BTW, the reward for doing something does not have to be more than the cost of doing it.

This is why I was asking for redeption strategies that people are using to get the best bang for the buck. I'm having trouble getting qualifying flights and finding a good redeption route that would make this into a "hot deal".

That said, a lot of people on this board fly for status and miles, not so much to save money.


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www.witold.org

fair enough, "fraud" is a bit extreme. the underlying principle, however, is what bothers me so much. it's like when cruises used to advertise their prices without including the port fees (which were always >$100).

i just try to look at it from the average consumer--it's one thing if you're using a grocery store coupon and you have to buy a certain size/#ounces to qualify for the coupon.....but how many members of the general public know what "T class" is and know how to manuever the flight engine to display any fare _other_ than T class? if it weren't for my perusing these boards, i certainly wouldn't know.... but that's just how i perceive it.

First - not all airlines are created equally. American started this promo and they allow you to fly any fare to earn the free ticket.

Second - I don't know the details of the Delta promo, but if the rest of the Terms&Conds are anything like AAs then your example is not correct. You picked one route and according to your theory the free ticket will be used on the same route. AA promo will give you a free ticket to anywhere AA flies. So I could fly 2 trips between TPA-LGA which I could get as low as $156 R/T, so after spending $312 total, I will get a free ticket that will get me to Tokyo, Buenos Aires, Rio, London, Paris or wherever I choose.

Third - I agree with some others here. Even looking at Delta's exemption of the lowest fare, you're assuming that everybody flies on lowest fares. They don't. Just because a promo may not work for you, it does work for many others. I'm mostly leisure flyer so I have to watch the fares. But many people do fly on higher fares because they need flexibility, refundability, etc.. AA has another promo that if you fly 10K miles in Jan. any miles above that will be triple miles, BUT the miles after the 10K can't be on the 2 lowest fares. The promo is great, but for me personally it won't work, yet I don't see it as a fraud. The airlines are choosing to reward the higher spending pax, and I can't blame them.

While you can pay $650 for three tickets from JFK to LAX, you can use your free award ticket anyplace in the world Delta flies.

So your $860 in tickets gets you a ticket anywhere on the planet Delta Flies. If that ticket costs more then $328 (860 minus 532, then it's a good deal. If that ticket costs less then $328, then you would have been better off not taking this deal.

It's not fraud, the terms are clearly laid out.

I'm as frustrated as everyone else about dirty/deceptive advertising used by airlines, hotels, and car rental companies, but this particular promotion seems straightforward to me. A lot of frequent-flyer promotions have restrictions, but as long as they are spelled out completely and in a straight-forward manner, I don't have a problem with it.

The worst abuses, IMHO, are the bogus fees that companies attach to their advertised fares. I don't have a problem with the government taxes being separate, but too often the companies add their own fees in a deceptive way in order to be able to advertise something else altogether. (Examples: fuel surcharges, concession recovery charges, resort fees, etc.)

sometimes I highlight a surpressed opinion I hold that 99% of all business (airlines specially) are sheer fraud by nature! (in the way you describe in this post). A sucker is born every minute and THEY BANK ON IT!

Also, that which is considered legal or "clearly stated" is not always right. In fact, its all too often simply about power and money. That seems a bit juvenile and yet, we've all been on both sides of this at some degree or another. Good, fine, but dont tread on me! AND, when there is someone who figures out the catch, they (the businesses trying to dupe US) should honor the rules set forth. They do not. They just get changed to be even harder to crack.

Avoid schemes like this. Maybe it IS ok to fight fire with fire if you really feel you are getting screwed. I should hope not, but it sure seems to be the only way with airlines. hence, the people who sell mile awards on ebay are often my heros.

You know, there are rules on this - at least DOT rules above and beyond any normal fraud/deceptive marketing laws. See, for example, this recent letter of guidance: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030904.doc

I'm not too familiar with the actual rules (there's a citation in the above link), but my impression is that they (1) have prevented some of the most outrageous fraud, such as making the airline denote that the fares are one way based on round trip; and (2) are the reason why we see some goofy stuff, like that odd breakdown of fares, taxes and fees ('air fare=$133.86, us tax=$12.14, fees=$12') when you get to the purchase screen; but (3) haven't really stopped the stuff that drives most of us nuts.

I agree that it's probably not fraud in this case - but if you think so, you should see if you can get the DOT's Aviation Consumer Protection Division to take it up.

Airlines frequently charges $200.00 for one person and $2,000 for the person who sits next to it. Is it fraud by your definition?

The airlines is selling not just the seat. Delta's higher fare will earn you more EQM and better chance to get upgrade.

The product on the T class is not the same product on K class. Delta is just trying to promote their higher price products.

Its not fraud because technically there is no mis-statement. Its a deceptive trade practice because they have not disclosed that the availability of low-priced fares is limited or non-existant. In addition to the DOT, I believe the FTC has rules about deceptive trade practices.

I would not say that this part (the fare classes) is fraud - if the rules are stated beforehand and are clear, then it is not fraud. Actually this could turn out to be a pretty good deal.

Not to say that they are not overly-complicating things intentionally to make it more difficult to understand than it seems.

Here is the part that I think may be considered, in a way, fradulent: when you go to use the award ticket, is it subject to the same ridiculous, hidden capacity controls that the mileage standard level awards are subject to? If it is, then it is, to me, fradulent. If they say that you are getting a free flight, then they should give you one if the flight is the seat is EMPTY, not if one is available per their undisclosed capacity controls. The reason is that they are the only ones that can determine if you can have a seat and it is a completely closed system. The whole plane could be empty and they might say that you cannot have a seat because they did not allocate any seats on that flight. Your award could expire because you could not use it because everytime you tried to use it they said that there are no seats available. I have not confirmed that this is how it works, but is says in small print: "All Delta SkyMiles program rules and conditions apply." I would call them and hash out all details before using the program.

Nonetheless, provided the award is reasonably usable and you can go anywhere, this can be a pretty lucrative offer.

These deals often appeal to business travelers. Their company pays for the two tickets, and they get the third trip for themselves. The airlines know this.