Well, I know what I went through to get miles for my F tix (you know, too ). I doubt if I'll be able to do it again, so I'm looking at the possibility of upgrading, etc. I don't have any inherent bias against paying cash/upgrading with miles, just hadn't looked at it much before.

BTW, I know you have a lot of miles, but one or two F tix to OZ (BA - nearly a half million miles per) would surely put a serious dent in your stash!

I think you've cracked it for that airline for that route. I flew US for a few years and we went to Europe three times using this strategy. Those SWU's are generous: unfortunately no other airline gives them out to the low-level members.

On each airline the strategy is slightly different, but if you can take advantage of a low upgradable coach fare to Europe, the same concept generally applies. On AA, those $300 fares have in the past been upgradable, but the mileage requirement is higher.

LAST MINUTE TICKETS! It does make sense to use miles when purchasing a last minute/short haul ticket. UA does not charge an extra fee for last minute award tickets. I say "short haul" because the miles you are losing by flying an award ticket are negligible.

Example:
A last minute SF0-BUR can cost $500 and would only earn you 1,000 status miles. Burn 25k miles and save the $500 for your next SFO-LHR (earn over 20k miles).

20k miles on CO, Tijuana to EZE. Saved myself close to $800 (price from LAX) and get a stopover in PTY.

Now my next mission is from SAN to JNB/CPT with flyer miles. That'll save me $1500 or there abouts. I'll obtain that sometime next year.

It all depends what you value. I'd rather fly coach and fly to JNB for free. Others would suck it up, pay the $$ and fly in F.

Last Minute tickets are still a good deal if they're to be found.

For a completely fair comparison why are you not including the use of SWU's, which most airlines allocate to their highest tier FF's. On DL, for example, you would receive 6 upgrades saving you 90 to 120,000 miles per year. Anything above that you are out of pocket.

I only fly overseas 3 - 4 times a year but I have not spent 1 mile on intn'l upgrades in the last 7 years, and have had to sit in the back only twice, both due to last minute schedule/routing changes.

"Am I finally getting it?"??

Runningshoes - The discussion is on upgrading with miles or upgrading with SWUs based on buying a higher fare booking class. United changed their rules this year so that an SWU can only be used to upgrade an H class or higher fare.

My same argument applies. I can spend $1500 on 3 economy trips to Europe in the off-season and have 37,500 status miles and 75,000 miles in my account because I get a 100% bonus. I can redeem the miles for a summer business class seat.

Or I could spend $1,500 for one H class summer fare and upgrade with an SWU and have 12,500 status miles and 25,000 miles in my account. I pay my own way and I wouldn't be traveling nearly as much if I paid more for a ticket to upgrade.

United 1K SWUs have been wonderful, But I am sitting on SWUs I haven't been able to use this year with the new rules. They issued an additional 4 SWUs in August valid on low international fares. I upgraded about 3/4 of my 20+ international trips over the past few years. I flew much more than what I could cover in SWUs. Also, my SWUs don't go that far because Ms. Satori makes preemptive claims on most of the upgrades. I think that is why I have been gifted so often by ticket counter staff.

Bottom line for me is that I will fly in the back if I have to pay significantly more for an upgradeable fare. Going places is my priority and the front of the plane is just a nice perk. When I have to make a choice my extra money goes for a better hotel, rather than a better seat on the plane.

Again I must respectfully disagree. To quote my old friend Emeril, "I don't know where you buy your USAir travel but where I buy mine..."

From the USAir website
http://www.usairways.com/dividendmil...m/upgrades.htm
for upgrades between Europe and North America:

Valid ONE WAY - 30K miles - Eligible Fare Classes - M, H, K or Q.

Valid ONE WAY - 10K miles - Eligible Fare Classes - B or Y.

Itinerary SFO/CDG; midweek travel in February; one week return with Saturday night stopover.

V Class [USAir's lowest Promotional Economy fare] - $484.80. Although NOT eligible for Dividend Mileage upgrade, let's assume for argument's sake it is.

B Class - $3,454.00.

Y Class - $3,832.00.

Conclusion:

$484.40 plus 60K Dividend miles or $3,454.00 plus 20K Dividend miles = One Business Class seat.

Continuing from the USAir website
http://www.usairways.com/dividendmil...avel_chart.htm
for Travel Between Europe and North America, Central America, the Caribbean, or Hawaii -

One Economy Class Ticket - 50K Dividend Miles;

One Business Class Ticket - 80K Dividend Miles.

Conclusion:

For the 60K upgrade you just paid nearly $500.00 for the 20K Dividend Miles you "saved" by upgrading instead of redeeming a business class seat outright. And if a qualifying fare costs more than $484.40 [which I believe it does], you paid even MORE!

Even at $500.00 you're paying USAir $0.025/mile which you can essentially do any day of the week without having to buy anything
http://buydividendmiles.points.com/h...dary!9033!9034
so how does this conversion ratio equate to "the most bang for your frequent flyer buck?"

For the 20K upgrade you just paid nearly $3,000.00 for the 60K Dividend Miles you "saved" by upgrading instead of redeeming a business class seat outright. This works out to $0.05/mile which is nearly twice as much as what you can pay any day of the week without having to buy anything. And if your qualifying fare is the $3,832.00 option, you paid even MORE!

I stand by my original observation; the most bang for your frequent flyer buck is realized by using your miles for an outright business class purchase. The regular business class fare for my above-quoted hypothetical routing is over $7,600.00. At 80K Dividend miles USAir just paid you $0.095/mile; nearly 400% more than what you were hypothetically just about to pay USAir.

The above-analysis assumes you are NOT a Premium 1 or greater K customer; do not accrue mileage at greater than 100%; and, do not have access to complimentary SWUs. Of course if you are or can, you probably don't need to pay anything for upgrades [either in money or frequent flyer miles]. Simply pay your $500.00; secure your 150% bonus mileage accrual; and rely upon your preferred status to secure your complimentary upgrade.

However for the rest of us...

[This message has been edited by smarten (edited 10-14-2003).]

Booked last night - BUF-LHR - K fare $645 - B fare $789. The $599 B fare starts on 12/24, and we wanted to be there before then.

A V fare is about $500. So for an extra $150 or so, I can use my SWU's. No promises, but track record had been good.

I have no idea where you're getting your $3000+ B fares from.

After making my arguments I just have to say I am blown away this morning to see that United has published H fares on Travelocity at $630 total fare for weekend travel SFO-LHR over the next few months.

This is hundreds of dollars lower than any H fare I recall to Europe in the last few years and the best thing I've seen from UA out of the West coast lately. I certainly would rethink my argument of not buying a higher fare if this became the norm and I could buy an upgradeable fare for a mere $200 more than the cheapest fare. That makes the H fare SWUs a reasonably priced option.

Like several others on FT, I have millions of miles from too many years of too much travel. I have adopted the strategy that my football coach espoused. He used to tell us, "take what the defense gives you." Now I say, "take what the airline gives you." If you can get first class award seats at saver award levels, take them.

etc.. etc.. blah blah blah,,
my friend i think you need to do a little more research on Flight prices, i'm sure everyone will agree the only FT'ers who pay $3000.00 for a B ticket is when flying around the world..
(when paying out of their pocket.. ) on holidays and not on other - must travel dates.. work etc..) - just incase you were hoping to catch me out.

See?!

Smarten, I think the key differences here are the cost of a B ticket, the flyer's desire to continue to accrue US Airways miles, and (in my case) the availability of SWU's.

The original poster had access to B fares for $600 - upgradable for 20k. If he can do that, and therefore spend $600 and 6000 (net) miles for a Biz seat, and be 7000 qualifying miles closer to being able to do it all again next year, he probably considers that better than spending 80k for a Biz award seat. Change the number to from $600 to $3400, and clearly the decision is different. (I will agree that $600 sounds lower than usual for an int'l B fare.)

In my case, I don't think I actually needed a B to use the SWU's. I went 3 times to Europe and never paid more than about $500 per ticket - confirmed upgrades at time of booking. $500 + about 12000 miles vs. spending 80k? In my case, I was still accumulating US Airways miles, so spending the money and the SWU clearly made the most sense.

Absolutely correct - see my post a couple above this to see what I wound up doing, and where that $600 B fare came from.

There were even cheaper fares available, but V fares are not upgradeable across the pond.

I'll get about 16,000 miles for this trip (with two segments per leg and 100% CP bonus, and be that much closer to doing it again next year. Since I'm using SWU's, that 16K is all in the net miles column.

Not sure how you confirmed upgrade at booking if it wasn't a B fare - supposedly that's the only less-than-Y fare that can do that.

PS - was also pleased to learn that they turn the booking over to the CP desk for tracking, so I don't have to remember to call 7 days out. That's a nice benny, and another reason why I continue to fly US whenever possible.