I have a ton of plastic showing that I am a frequent flyer at Delta, El Al, Lufthansa, KLM, AA, and a few regional airlines. I also have membership at Hertz, Avis, Dollar and Budget as well as at about 15 hotel chains.

Before I fly, drive, or stay with any company I get their card. Why? Because it can't hurt. It may only get me free local calls at Hampton Inn or a newspaper somewhere else, but it may also let me into a better room which is reserved for members.

Having said that, I *NEVER* fly, drive, or take a hotel room based on my membership cards. I always go for the best price and tale whatever points they might give me. (This year it was enough for Gold Medallion at Delta, but I could have been Platinum if I had changed some El Al and Lufthansa flights to Skyteam members.)

Points/miles are simply not worth additional costs.

Assume, for example, that I take ten flights this year. Four are from Israel to the East Coast and 6 are from Israel to Western Europe. If I make them all on Delta/Skyteam, I will get about 75,000 miles.
Let's be generous and say 80,000 -- which earns me one free round trip from Tel Aviv to the US.

By seeking the lowest fares to the US, I can save about $300 per trip. To Europe, I will save about $200. Total savings: $2400.

With that $2400 I can get TWO round trips to the States. More than that, I don't have to book years in advance to assure that a free seat will be available and I can take my trips on any airline that I want.

Yes, join any and all clubs and yes, take the miles/points when they are offered -- just don't plan your trip in order to get them.

I'll take the opposite view. I do mileage runs to accumulate miles, and use those miles to buy business or first class tickets on international routes (I've done 9 award tickets to Australia, with a handful to Europe and domestic U.S., in business or first). I will pay a few dollars extra, and don't mind it, seeing that I bring in over 10,000 miles on any cross country trip. Those 10,000 miles are conservatively worth $150 at 1.5 cents a mile.

Now, I can't ever recall paying more that $25-50 extra when the fares on the airline I have miles with was higher than a competitor, but I would not hesitate to pay that. Maybe you're finding a higher price spread because of your route and carriers available? I just don't see a $300 difference on routes I fly.

If the miles are worth it, it does make sense to stick with a certain carrier or alliance, even if it does mean paying slightly more. Those miles have value.

Let's not forget the value of status. I know it varies from airline to airline and airport to airport. But there is priority boarding, priority waitlist, special lines for security if your top tier, first shot at surplus first class seats (Upgrades) and a host of other things.

Recently I was waiting on a flight that was canceled due to mechanical problems. There was only one other flight out that day and it had 6 seats on it. Two of those seats went to this flyer who fortunately had status the other 4 went to 4 other flyers with status. As the agent handed me my new passes she smiled and said and there's another time it paid to be an MVP. I value all the above almost as much as the miles. It's a hassle to fly anymore and anything that makes it easier I'm all for.



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"A day without Points/Miles is like a day without SUNSHINE"

Personally, I love some of the promotions associated with various FF programs.

Take British Airways, for instance. I spent 15 minutes at the local Jaguar dealership, and my wife spend another 15 minutes. Combined with 5,000 Starpoints, that gave me enough for my free ticket to Anchorage this month. That ticket would have run me about $500 (possibly more).

How is that not worth it?

True. I was upgraded, along with a traveling companion, from business to first, on award tickets, LHR-ORD in July. That certainly would not have happened without "status", let alone the other perks you mention that go along with it. It's hard to attach a dollar value to any of those perks, but they would not exist without "status".

Dovster, you are assuming that the only reward is miles. Paying a lot of extra dollars simply for FF benefits may not always be effective, but in many cases the difference in fares is negligible. From TLV and on routes from certain parts of the world, unfortunately FF promotions by AA/UA are non-existant.

Randy has always been recommending concentrating your loyalty firepower for good reasons. On the other hand folks such as Joe B have been criticising mindless loyalty that airlines often use to keep fares very high for business travelers (company pays - you get the benefit; an aspect not covered in your argument).

There is a separate thread discussing how elite programs can be improved but you can see the numerous ideas for what is already being done (best practices) and what may come about in the future. Miles are the most broadly understood measurable benefits (sort of niche currency) but the others are very important (SWU and VIP03s on AA for EXP).

As other have pointed out here, status is a very tangible reward for frequent traveler. My family (including 2 young children) is primarily loyal to OneWorld. we keep getting upgraded in those rare cases I choose not to upgrade (Thanksgiving to/from Hawaii, busy seasons DFW-SJO, LAX-LHR, etc. etc.) and that is worth tens of thousands of dollars.

The benefits while getting diluted are still there for the elites. Do not forget status bonuses (100% even on many low fares for AA).
In many case the value of status bonus miles could be more than the difference in fares (very true in case of flts to Asia from North America on Star and OneWorld).

I am not sure about Israel, but if you have super-elite status in countries such as Thailand, India, etc. you almost always get op-upgraded during peak season - nearly 6 months a year(many flts have Y full and some premium cabin space available).

The following statement in the original argument is demonstrably incorrect:

"Points/miles are simply not worth additional costs."

Leaving aside the status argument, (which is VERY substantial), there is indeed an economic value to points and miles that can be factored into the equation when judging value. On long hauls, it can be worth several hundred dollars.

A lot of the "value" of the miles is also determined by the value of the time you have to spend tracking miles, checking out bonuses, calling the reps (and calling them again, and again) to find out if an upgradable seat has opened up since you last called, etc. If you have a lot of time on your hands to do this, or don't mind it, then on balance FF miles can still be a good deal. On the other hand if you could be earning $400/hour practicing your profession, or have very little free time in your life to spend with family and friends instead of talking to reps on the phone and tracking these things, then it may not be worth it to you, especially if you don't fly often enough to make the other perks of status worthwhile (e.g., early boarding etc).

Dovster, your point is a good one. What you have to realize is that the overwhelming majority of the posters on this board have elite status with an airline, and probably most of them don't pay for their own travel (company pays). With elite status, using points for upgrades is a better value. So the advice you'll get from most folks here will be disagreement because its not the right strategy for them, but it may be the right strategy for you.

These programs will go the way of green stamps value is decreasing and the key issue is price. Airlines want us to pay more for less service. What do you think is the next innovative idea? FFP have been beat to death its just more of the same which means less as programs now follow each other.

I'm a leisure traveller who does 50K+ a year in domestic travel each of the past few years. All of that travel has been on United and I don't mind one bit paying $50-100 more to fly them over, say, Southwest.

I use my miles exclusively for upgrades. The first exception was this year on a trip to GSO. I could not get into North Carolina for less than $500, so I coughed up 25K for a saver award and was even given a free upgrade to First ORD-SEA.

Since I fly leisure, and I always need a car, I have the luxury of being able to fly 200 miles near to my destination to get a better fare and then drive. I can often save hundreds, which then pays for the rental and much of the rest of the trip.

And then their is status. Bypassing the humongous waits at SEA to use Elite Security alone makes spending the extra time and money to be an elite worth it.

I don't think miles are worth 1.5 cents, given the way the programs have changed in the last couple of years. I use 1 per mile these days, and wonder if that's overstating it. The miles do have value, but I tend to think that Dovster's approach is generally the way to go. There are exceptions, one of which is status. If you get status, then, depending on the airline, you get benefits that matter to me, including potentially bonus miles. Still, I think it's too easy to let the tail wag the dog in the chase for miles. tls

I suppose the major determining factor is how you use your miles and how many you generate in a year. Top-tier fliers can easily generate 300K-plus miles.

An International First Class award on Star Alliance is 120K miles and fares probably average $12,000. That means each mile is worth ten cents.

Of course, I can spend 25K miles on a Saver Award that runs me $250 (or even less). That makes each mile worth one cent.

I can use 15,000 miles to upgrade that $250 W fare to a First Class seat that costs $2500, bringing me back to ten cents a mile.

So using miles to purchase Award Tickets in Coach is usually not worth it, unless you are flying some oddball routing. But to purchase International First Class or Business Class travel, or to upgrade domestic travel to First Class, they can have tangible monetary value.

On Southwest, each round-trip booked online earns 4 credits worth a total of about $75. Right now I can buy an intra-California roundtrip for $73. How is that not worth it?

In a similar way to SEA_Tigger, I also do almost exclusively leisure travel, although not very much. I'm young, pretty poor, and I can't afford to travel as much as I'd like. And that's why I love FF, hotel, and all the other programs. I pick one (WN and HHonors because they're the most convenient for me) and, if the prices are pretty much comparable, I go with them. Why? If I can build up any kind of serious balance of points or miles (in WN's case, of course, credits), then I can seriously increase the amount of traveling I do.

It's worked out great. I'm by no means monogomous to those two programs, but most of the time I go for them because they have competitive rates. Not wanting to pay an AF, I got the HHonors credit cards, which gives me tons of extra points. And so, with making five or six stays at Hiltons this year and taking a half dozen or so trips on WN, I've managed to build up a nice (although paltry to many others on this board) balance of one free WN ticket with another on the way and about 175,000 HHonors points -- enough for six free nights anywhere.

I always put price first. If Hilton or WN are way off, then I don't go with them. But if we're talking a few dollars higher -- say $25 or so -- then I'm willing to take the points. I don't have much in the way of status (HHonors Silver), but I just like the added bonus of getting some free travel down the line. After all, I'm going to be able to take a vacation next summer and only have to pay for food and any incidentals. I couldn't have done that without the loyalty programs.