question regarding upgrade to business class
Jun 27, 2008 | 10:48 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
question regarding upgrade to business class
I am wondering what is the best FF card to apply if i want upgration to business class of the flight to east Asia (e.g. Japan or China)....and what classes are considered as upgreadable?
thanks!
thanks!
Jun 27, 2008 | 10:56 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BNA
Posts: 2,076
Do you mean FF program or credit card? Join all of the first and as many of the DL, NW, UA, and CO credit cards you can to take advantage of future mergers. Before anyone can answer your question fully you're probably going to have to be a bit more specific.
Jun 27, 2008 | 11:04 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
i heard FF is better for upgrading. right? cause thankyou points can not really be used for it...maybe i am wrong..
Jun 28, 2008 | 3:58 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dillon, CO
Programs: AA EXP 4MM
Posts: 496
Are you saying you want to join a program and soon after that you hope to get free upgrades to Asia? In most frequent flyer programs you can earn some certificates if you reach the top tier (75K miles/year for NW/DL/CO, 100K miles/year for AA/UA) and use those to upgrade certain fares. But that means if you're starting from scratch you're going to be in the back of the bus for a long time before you have enough status to qualify for the chance for upgrades. Just joining, and getting a credit card, won't put you up front right away nor even if you're top tier can you expect to get the upgrade every time.
Jun 28, 2008 | 4:47 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 26,113
Are you saying you want to join a program and soon after that you hope to get free upgrades to Asia? In most frequent flyer programs you can earn some certificates if you reach the top tier (75K miles/year for NW/DL/CO, 100K miles/year for AA/UA) and use those to upgrade certain fares. But that means if you're starting from scratch you're going to be in the back of the bus for a long time before you have enough status to qualify for the chance for upgrades. Just joining, and getting a credit card, won't put you up front right away nor even if you're top tier can you expect to get the upgrade every time.
To the OP:
Welcome to FlyerTalk, mashmario.
You have to be more specific about where you're flying from, how much you're willling to connect to get the upgrade on the main flight, how far ahead you can book, and what fares you want to upgrade from.
On the latter point, most airlines (AA being the main exception) won't even let you upgrade with miles from most discount economy fares! You have to start by buyhing a more expensive (sometimes way more expensive) fare, and then if you don't get the upgrade you still paid for the more expensive fare. AA uses a "co-pay" system instead, where you can upgrade from almost any fare, but in addition to miles you have to pay several hundred dollars each way to upgrade.
The reason I asked about where you're willing to fly from is because AA only flies to Japan (from several US cities) and to Shanghai (and coming up Beijing) but in those cases only one in the middle of the country, and so if you're on the west coast that may feel like "backtracking". (And AA flies nowhere else in Asia, other than Delhi, so far, so for anywhere else you could only upgrade that far and then have to take connecting flights in coach after that, on their partners in Japan and China.)
On the other hand, AA miles (to use for the milesage part of those miles+co-pay upgrades) are probably easier to accumulate quickly (from non-flying activities) than the miles for most other airlines, but that again depends on lots of things like how often you fly, how often you stay in hotels, how often you eat out and are willing to eat at specific restaurants only, how good your credit score is and are you willing to apply for Citi credit cards over and over and over, etc).
Meanwhile, upgrades are far from always available, and you may need to subscribe to a tool such as ExpertFlyer to be able to find flights on which you can likely confirm an upgrade right after booking (that's the only way to not have to worry about getting in line behind elites who have prority on upgrades in waiting lists).
Jun 28, 2008 | 7:37 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA 2.996MM & Plat Pro, DL 1MM, GM & Flying Colonel
Posts: 25,036
Welcome to FT!
Another point that hasn't been made yet, at least not as I see it, is that it takes a lot of miles to upgrade that trip. For example, on AA, upgrading from full-fare economy to business between the U.S. and Japan takes 15,000 miles each way; from discount economy, it's 25,000 miles each way plus $300 co-pay. (IMHO a co-pay is fairer than making you buy a higher fare class from the get-go just to be in the lottery, where you're out the difference even if your upgrade doesn't clear, but that's a separate issue.) Earning 15,000 miles, if you start with no status, takes three North American trans-continental round trips. So the entire question of upgrades is moot until you've flown for a while.
You can get miles for things like taking out credit cards and opening a Netflix account, but you have to be pretty single-minded in pursuing lots of those bonus offers to get enough that way.
You can also buy miles from some airlines, but that's an expensive way to get them - though not compared to a business-class fare - and the annual limit may not be high enough for your needs.
Another point that hasn't been made yet, at least not as I see it, is that it takes a lot of miles to upgrade that trip. For example, on AA, upgrading from full-fare economy to business between the U.S. and Japan takes 15,000 miles each way; from discount economy, it's 25,000 miles each way plus $300 co-pay. (IMHO a co-pay is fairer than making you buy a higher fare class from the get-go just to be in the lottery, where you're out the difference even if your upgrade doesn't clear, but that's a separate issue.) Earning 15,000 miles, if you start with no status, takes three North American trans-continental round trips. So the entire question of upgrades is moot until you've flown for a while.
You can get miles for things like taking out credit cards and opening a Netflix account, but you have to be pretty single-minded in pursuing lots of those bonus offers to get enough that way.
You can also buy miles from some airlines, but that's an expensive way to get them - though not compared to a business-class fare - and the annual limit may not be high enough for your needs.
Jun 28, 2008 | 8:51 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
There are other ways to upgrade than certificates! And those other ways don't require you to be elite at all (tho they may be made more likely by you being elite, in cases where the upgrade requires a waiting list).
To the OP:
Welcome to FlyerTalk, mashmario.
You have to be more specific about where you're flying from, how much you're willling to connect to get the upgrade on the main flight, how far ahead you can book, and what fares you want to upgrade from.
On the latter point, most airlines (AA being the main exception) won't even let you upgrade with miles from most discount economy fares! You have to start by buyhing a more expensive (sometimes way more expensive) fare, and then if you don't get the upgrade you still paid for the more expensive fare. AA uses a "co-pay" system instead, where you can upgrade from almost any fare, but in addition to miles you have to pay several hundred dollars each way to upgrade.
The reason I asked about where you're willing to fly from is because AA only flies to Japan (from several US cities) and to Shanghai (and coming up Beijing) but in those cases only one in the middle of the country, and so if you're on the west coast that may feel like "backtracking". (And AA flies nowhere else in Asia, other than Delhi, so far, so for anywhere else you could only upgrade that far and then have to take connecting flights in coach after that, on their partners in Japan and China.)
On the other hand, AA miles (to use for the milesage part of those miles+co-pay upgrades) are probably easier to accumulate quickly (from non-flying activities) than the miles for most other airlines, but that again depends on lots of things like how often you fly, how often you stay in hotels, how often you eat out and are willing to eat at specific restaurants only, how good your credit score is and are you willing to apply for Citi credit cards over and over and over, etc).
Meanwhile, upgrades are far from always available, and you may need to subscribe to a tool such as ExpertFlyer to be able to find flights on which you can likely confirm an upgrade right after booking (that's the only way to not have to worry about getting in line behind elites who have prority on upgrades in waiting lists).
To the OP:
Welcome to FlyerTalk, mashmario.
You have to be more specific about where you're flying from, how much you're willling to connect to get the upgrade on the main flight, how far ahead you can book, and what fares you want to upgrade from.
On the latter point, most airlines (AA being the main exception) won't even let you upgrade with miles from most discount economy fares! You have to start by buyhing a more expensive (sometimes way more expensive) fare, and then if you don't get the upgrade you still paid for the more expensive fare. AA uses a "co-pay" system instead, where you can upgrade from almost any fare, but in addition to miles you have to pay several hundred dollars each way to upgrade.
The reason I asked about where you're willing to fly from is because AA only flies to Japan (from several US cities) and to Shanghai (and coming up Beijing) but in those cases only one in the middle of the country, and so if you're on the west coast that may feel like "backtracking". (And AA flies nowhere else in Asia, other than Delhi, so far, so for anywhere else you could only upgrade that far and then have to take connecting flights in coach after that, on their partners in Japan and China.)
On the other hand, AA miles (to use for the milesage part of those miles+co-pay upgrades) are probably easier to accumulate quickly (from non-flying activities) than the miles for most other airlines, but that again depends on lots of things like how often you fly, how often you stay in hotels, how often you eat out and are willing to eat at specific restaurants only, how good your credit score is and are you willing to apply for Citi credit cards over and over and over, etc).
Meanwhile, upgrades are far from always available, and you may need to subscribe to a tool such as ExpertFlyer to be able to find flights on which you can likely confirm an upgrade right after booking (that's the only way to not have to worry about getting in line behind elites who have prority on upgrades in waiting lists).
Last edited by mashmario; Jun 28, 2008 at 8:58 am
Jun 28, 2008 | 1:58 pm
#8
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
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NW will not exist because they have agreed to be acquired by Delta, you need to look at DL's upgrade policies, which require purchase of specfic fares to upgrade. I believe United is the same, but I never fly UA.
Will you earn most of your miles through flying or through partner activity, such as credit card? If credit card spending will be an important source of miles ,and if I were just beginning to accumulate miles, I would choose a credit card which allows transfers to several airlines, rather than being locked into one carrier which might dramatically alter its route structure or frequent flyer program, or even shut down.
Options: Starwood Preferred Guest, Diners Club Mastercard, or American Express Membership Rewards. None of these programs can transfer to every airline, you need to look at the carrier(s) you are likely to use and verify that the card is a good fit. None of these programs are desireable for transfers to United Airlines. To accumulate UA miles through credit card spending you are pretty much forced to use their own credit card issued by Chase. For this reason alone I would try to choose another carrier.
Final thought: if your parents live in another country, you may wish to investigate if the airline has a credit card issuing partner in that country which your parents could use to accumulate miles in their own frequent flyer accounts.
Last edited by mia; Jun 28, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Jun 28, 2008 | 8:32 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Today AA allows you to buy a deeply discounted economy ticket and redeem miles plus a co-payment to upgrade, subject to availability of upgrade eligible inventory in business class. However, no one can say what these carriers' policies will be over the next two years.
NW will not exist because they have agreed to be acquired by Delta, you need to look at DL's upgrade policies, which require purchase of specfic fares to upgrade. I believe United is the same, but I never fly UA.
Will you earn most of your miles through flying or through partner activity, such as credit card? If credit card spending will be an important source of miles ,and if I were just beginning to accumulate miles, I would choose a credit card which allows transfers to several airlines, rather than being locked into one carrier which might dramatically alter its route structure or frequent flyer program, or even shut down.
Options: Starwood Preferred Guest, Diners Club Mastercard, or American Express Membership Rewards. None of these programs can transfer to every airline, you need to look at the carrier(s) you are likely to use and verify that the card is a good fit. None of these programs are desireable for transfers to United Airlines. To accumulate UA miles through credit card spending you are pretty much forced to use their own credit card issued by Chase. For this reason alone I would try to choose another carrier.
Final thought: if your parents live in another country, you may wish to investigate if the airline has a credit card issuing partner in that country which your parents could use to accumulate miles in their own frequent flyer accounts.
NW will not exist because they have agreed to be acquired by Delta, you need to look at DL's upgrade policies, which require purchase of specfic fares to upgrade. I believe United is the same, but I never fly UA.
Will you earn most of your miles through flying or through partner activity, such as credit card? If credit card spending will be an important source of miles ,and if I were just beginning to accumulate miles, I would choose a credit card which allows transfers to several airlines, rather than being locked into one carrier which might dramatically alter its route structure or frequent flyer program, or even shut down.
Options: Starwood Preferred Guest, Diners Club Mastercard, or American Express Membership Rewards. None of these programs can transfer to every airline, you need to look at the carrier(s) you are likely to use and verify that the card is a good fit. None of these programs are desireable for transfers to United Airlines. To accumulate UA miles through credit card spending you are pretty much forced to use their own credit card issued by Chase. For this reason alone I would try to choose another carrier.
Final thought: if your parents live in another country, you may wish to investigate if the airline has a credit card issuing partner in that country which your parents could use to accumulate miles in their own frequent flyer accounts.
Jun 29, 2008 | 4:21 am
#10
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
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Posts: 51,864
In most cases...
$20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = 25,000 airline miles
(Notable exceptions are Continental, Singapore and United, where $20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = only 12,500 miles.)
Also, Citi can change the ThankYou point redemption schedule at any time, and previous changes have been quietly announced only with only about two weeks notice. This can devalue the program for travel on every airline simultaneously. By comparison, Starwood typically announces changes well in advance, and it seems less likely that every airline partner would devalue mileage redemptions at the same time.
Jun 29, 2008 | 5:01 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Starpoints can be converted to airline miles which can be redeemed for upgrades. ThankYou points can be redeemed for airline tickets, but not for upgrades. (My understanding from your original post is that you are primarily interested in upgrades.)
In most cases...
$20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = 25,000 airline miles
(Notable exceptions are Continental, Singapore and United, where $20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = only 12,500 miles.)
Also, Citi can change the ThankYou point redemption schedule at any time, and previous changes have been quietly announced only with only about two weeks notice. This can devalue the program for travel on every airline simultaneously. By comparison, Starwood typically announces changes well in advance, and it seems less likely that every airline partner would devalue mileage redemptions at the same time.
In most cases...
$20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = 25,000 airline miles
(Notable exceptions are Continental, Singapore and United, where $20,000 spending = 20,000 Starpoints = only 12,500 miles.)
Also, Citi can change the ThankYou point redemption schedule at any time, and previous changes have been quietly announced only with only about two weeks notice. This can devalue the program for travel on every airline simultaneously. By comparison, Starwood typically announces changes well in advance, and it seems less likely that every airline partner would devalue mileage redemptions at the same time.
Jun 29, 2008 | 5:22 pm
#12
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA, IHG & Marriott Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 51,864
You can receive a bonus for activating the Citi AAdvantage card, but there is also a bonus for activating the Starwood Preferred Guest credit card. If you are confident that AA is the program you will use you could apply for both. Use the Citi card to earn the bonus and at merchants who do not accept American Express. Use the SPG card to earn another bonus, and as your primary card for spending because...
Citi spend $20,000 = 20,000 AAdvantage miles
SPG spend $20,000 = 25,000 AAdvantage miles
Jun 30, 2008 | 5:57 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 26,113
There's no other airline, and no other card group, that I'm familiar with that you can do this with. So if you can take advantage of this "loophole", you may be able to get AA miles for upgrades way faster than miles for upgrades at any other airline.
And yes, Northwest and United both require that you buy comparitively high fares (just a slight step below "fully refundable") to qualify for upgrades. If you buy tickets far in advance*, then it tends to be cheaper to upgrade at AA, even with the co-pay. (It's only for people who buy tickets comparatively "last minute", when all that's left is those higher fares anyway, for whom UA or NW upgrading doesn't cost any more than AA upgrading.)
*And remember, your chances of actually getting the upgrade go up if you book earlier, for multiple reasons.
Jun 30, 2008 | 7:54 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 15
If you have good credit, there's more: Visit the "Other credit cards" forum and look at the Citi "60 day" thread. You can not only get a 25000 bonus, you can get multiple 25000 bonuses right now (again, nothing to say it won't change next month), just by applying for a new card every couple months (and spending $750 on each of those cards in the first 4 months).
There's no other airline, and no other card group, that I'm familiar with that you can do this with. So if you can take advantage of this "loophole", you may be able to get AA miles for upgrades way faster than miles for upgrades at any other airline.
And yes, Northwest and United both require that you buy comparitively high fares (just a slight step below "fully refundable") to qualify for upgrades. If you buy tickets far in advance*, then it tends to be cheaper to upgrade at AA, even with the co-pay. (It's only for people who buy tickets comparatively "last minute", when all that's left is those higher fares anyway, for whom UA or NW upgrading doesn't cost any more than AA upgrading.)
*And remember, your chances of actually getting the upgrade go up if you book earlier, for multiple reasons.
There's no other airline, and no other card group, that I'm familiar with that you can do this with. So if you can take advantage of this "loophole", you may be able to get AA miles for upgrades way faster than miles for upgrades at any other airline.
And yes, Northwest and United both require that you buy comparitively high fares (just a slight step below "fully refundable") to qualify for upgrades. If you buy tickets far in advance*, then it tends to be cheaper to upgrade at AA, even with the co-pay. (It's only for people who buy tickets comparatively "last minute", when all that's left is those higher fares anyway, for whom UA or NW upgrading doesn't cost any more than AA upgrading.)
*And remember, your chances of actually getting the upgrade go up if you book earlier, for multiple reasons.
Jun 30, 2008 | 8:18 am
#15
Flyertalk Posting Legend Moderator: Credit Card Programs, American Express, Capital One, Chase, Citi, Diners Club, Eco Travel, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
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Posts: 51,864
It could, that's why sdsearch prefaced the message with "if you have good credit", because you need to be able to absorb a temporary reduction in FICO score. In any event you should read the thread, which is here...
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778645
By the way, it's not customary to "quote" the entire message to which you are replying, use just enough to provide context.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778645
By the way, it's not customary to "quote" the entire message to which you are replying, use just enough to provide context.