According to the Rocky Mountain News, 12/10/02, page 2S.....

"One airline that likely won't step in at DIA is Dallas-based low-fare carrier Southwest. The only one of the eight largest U.S. carriers to show a profit this year, Southwest repeatedly has rejected DIA's rates as too high."

Says a lot about DIA, doesn't it? They have been buddy-buddy with United for years, helping to keep prices high and choices low.

[This message has been edited by FCfree (edited 12-12-2002).]

Sitting on a plane the other day, I heard an odd story. Let me preface it by saying that this may be nothing but folklore...

My neighbor was recounting to me that she was speaking to some pilots at a bar one night who mentioned that WN would never fly to Denver because of bitter feelings between the CEO of WN and the mayor (at the time) of Denver. According to my neighbor, WN had requested that Stapleton remain open after DIA's grand entrance and be used solely for WN flights. The mayor refused; and therein launched some bad blood between the two with the CEO of WN storming out of the office with: "My airline will never fly to Colorado!"

Now... IMO, I think Colorado Springs would be a great market for WN!

The landing fees are probably too high, plus you have Frontier, and other low cost carriers in Denver. Since there are other markets that Southwest could be the only low cost carrier, say Allentown, PA and Des Moines, IA, why should they go into Denver where they would have a LOT of competition?

There are also cities courting Southwest trying to get them into their airport. I don't think Denver has shown any interest, and I don't think they would offer any incentives to get Southwest.

Looking at Denver, would they go DEN-ABQ - not too wise, as Frontier and United have this. DEN-SLC, nope Delta and United. Continental pulled out of Denver, think there are many other cities that could be more profitable.

I'd love to see Southwest in Denver but don't see it for some time. Colorado Springs maybe, but airlines that go in there have a history of leaving or bankruptcy - thinking of Western Pacific.

When did Continental pull out? They still service Denver and are scheduled to throughout 2003.

Oh, please! Oh, please! Let them come into ABE.

ctuttle is referring to Continental closing its Denver hub, circa 1994 when Stapleton closed and DIA opened.

Thank you, I guess I should have said when Continental stopped using Denver as one of its hubs in the 90s.

While it is true that Southwest would have to compete with United, Frontier and others if it came to Denver, that never has stopped Southwest before.

Southwest competes very well with United in the LAS-LAX market. Southwest sets the price and United pretty much has to match it. It competes with Frontier right now on the RNO-ABQ run (with one stop in Denver for Frontier or one stop in Vegas/Phoenix for Southwest). It competes with Delta on the LAS-SLC and LAS-Portland runs.

I am sure there are plenty of other examples where Southwest and another airline fly the same route, either direct or with the same number of stops.

For a few years, Southwest competed with America West and Reno Air on the LAS-RNO run. Southwest sold tickets for $39 each way and drove the other 2 out of the market. And, guess what -- Southwest didn't raise their price when the last one left the market. Right now, you can get LAS-RNO for $44 each way, based on round trip advanced nonrefundable purchase.

I did not know that there was "bad blood" between Southwest and the city of Denver. I can see Southwest's desire to keep Stapleton open for their use. I think Denver made a lot of airlines mad by forcing them out to DIA. I think that is another example of the mis-management of DIA and the strings that United pulled to try to control the market. Remember that CO went into bankruptcy just as DIA was opening. At DIA, you see the Continental name on the de-icing equipment west of terminal A. CO also has a hanger northwest of terminal C, although I think that Frontier is using that now. However, the CO name is still on the building. When CO pulled out of DIA, it appears that UA took advantage of the situation and pulled all the strings they could to keep Southwest and other low cost carriers out of the market, thus allowing UA to charge more for their flights.

You can't fault UA for doing that -- every business tries to get as much for its product as it can and keep its competitors out of their markets. But DIA, a public entity should not allow one airline have a virtual monopoly.

And now, DIA pays the price for getting too cozy with UA. You live by the monopoly, you die by the monopoly. If you grant someone a monopoly and you bet the entire airport on that monopoly, don't cry when the monopoly goes under and DIA's revenues are in jeopardy. If DIA would have hedged its bets, UA would not be a big a source of revenue, and its loss would not have the same effect.

While I can see how flying to COS would be helpful to some, my destination is north of Denver, not south -- so COS is not an option for me. I'd love to see Southwest fly into Cheyenne, but I can't see that airport as being a big enough market for Southwest.

There was a rumor that the City of Cheyenne was courting Southwest, but, at least so far, hasn't done what it takes to get Southwest to fly there.

The city of Denver needs to swallow its pride and recognize that all major cities are served by Southwest. I think Denver took pride in being a "hub" city. What pride is there in being the "hub" city of an airline in bankruptcy?

The city needs to serve its citizens, not its own sense of pride. The citizens of Denver would be better served by more competition at DIA, thus offering lower prices and letting the public fly at the real cost of flying, not some artificially inflated price provided by granting monopolies.

Please continue to follow this thread in "Travel"Buzz.

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Craig6z
Buzz & United Moderator
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