Hotel Points - A Little Advice Please?
 

I am a retired, leisure traveler who rarely buys airline tickets anymore. I have managed to accumulate, mainly through credit cards, phone service and various and sundry promotions, about 1.25 million miles. So I feel that we are pretty well set for travel far and wide for quite a while (coach, of course).

Now I want to concentrate on getting hotel points. I currently use the Starwood Amex but only to get the extra 5k when transferring to an airline. I'll sign up for the Hilton and Marriott cards, again(!) but what I really want to know, from all you experts out there, is which hotel program can one most easily accumulate points with - Marriott, Hilton or Starwood. And are there ways (other than credit cards) to gather hotel points without staying at the hotel, much like one can do with airlines? My favorite chain has always been Marriott and, during working days, stayed there almost exclusively.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions that you may have.

Hilton has been having 50K promotions for the last couple years: stay 4 times and you get 50K bonus points. Search Hilton forum for CNTU for lots of details.

It is harder to accumulate Starwood points but I prefer to accumulate Starwood points anyways because they tend to have a category of hotels for redemption. I like to spend my hotel points on a hotel I could not afford to stay in otherwise.

If you are looking for the most bang for your buck I would go for Hilton. Points are easy to accumulate and there are Hilton properties in every price range.

Hotel points can be sort of like pinball machine points. Some give you billions of points, but you don't get a free game, and others, it doesn't seem like you have a lot of points, but you get a free game, and worse yet, you do get enough points for a free game but the machine doesn't work properly anymore and you can't play the free game.

For these reasons (and this pinball analogy just came to me, but boy is it true), SPG is my #1 program.

Another question - is the primary purpose of earning your hotel points for hotel stay redemption? Or for airline transfer.

For hotel stays. At this point, I have enough airline miles.

If you have more than enough miles, I would recommend Hilton Hhonors, since you can transfer miles to Hhnonors points at a 1 mile to two Hhonors points basis from most programs (you cannot transfer Worldperks and Aadvantage miles transfer only at 1:1).

Head for Hilton, they have run the 50,000 point promotion three times since last year.

Hotel stays booked using points probably will not help you earn any bonus points, as qualifying stays must have room revenue associated with them, so unless you are planning to pay for hotels stays with $$, you might not earn any bonus points. AMEX Membership Rewards also has hotel xfer options.

jk

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"Hang up my haishirt, put my scourge in place, and pray, Laurent, for Heaven's perpetual grace."

Moliere, "Tartuffe"

Unless you are sure you need to stay in more expensive 3/4 star hotels, I would suggest you balance the point value with what the rooms cost you.

The number of points you earn and the resulting rooms you eventually get is not a great deal in most cases. If you can stay in a less expensive property and spend 20,30,40 or even 60 dollars less per night, the dollar savings will be much great than the point value.

I stopped doing the Mariott/Sheraton/Hyatt/Westin thing when wide open expense accounts went away, and when I had choices. Have never looked back.

If you're looking at Hilton, a Delta AMEX card (with annual fee) may be a better way to accumulate Hilton points than a fee-free Hilton Visa or AMEX, depending on your spending pattern. The Delta card has the always-double-miles feature for certain types of spending (although some people say they have trouble getting the bonus to post - I've haven't had that problem with them yet). They've also run special promos: currently there's a triple miles promo this month (equates to 6 HH points per $), there was a double miles promo a little while ago, and there's a double miles promo for weekend spending coming soon.

It wouldn't take a whole lot of bonus spending to justify the annual fee. But get the Hilton Visa & AMEX, too: 10,000 and 7,500 bonus points, respectively, no annual fee, and you can cancel them once the bonuses post.

Since you already have so many airmiles I would go for Hilton HHonors: it is easy to transfer airmiles to HHononrs. A couple of 10K airmiles transfered to HHonors (depending on how many you can spare) can give you lots of free nights, especially if you use HHonors Pointstretchers which should be no big problem since you are retired and -I assume- you are flexible in your dates.

I do agree that the easiest program to accumulate points in is HHonors, and the hardest (without hotel stays) is probably Hyatt.

However, I think you might reconsider which credit card(s) you use to augment the points you accumulate from paid hotel stays.

Unfortunately, the Marriott Visa is the worst card for accumulating hotel points. You get only 1 MR point per dollar, but MR points are given out at 10 per dollar at the full service Marriott brands. Even with the 2 point bonus per dollar for a total of 3 per dollar on Marriott charges, its barely worth it, since 1 MR point is worth much less than one airline mile or one SPG point. (You might get it just for the sign-up bonus and the free first year, but don't use it too often, and cancel it before they charge you the annual fee. I have one, and just use it for elegible Marriott charges that give me 3 points per dollar.

So, I think you should consider one of the Hilton branded cards or the Starwood Amex. I know that there are 2 Hilton cards, and the Hilton folks should be able to summarize the pros and cons of each one.

Between HHonors and SPG, just to throw out a contrary opinion to almost everybody else answering you in this thread, Starpoints are the better currency, IMHO. In any event, either of them are better than accumulating Marriott Rewards points via there co-branded Visa card. Starpoints can be converted to most airline miles at the rate of 20k starpoints : 25k airline miles, so even if used for accumulating air miles, the SPG card is better than most airline branded cards because of the 5k bonus when transferring 20k SPG points at a time. Personally, I think the SPG points are more valuable for hotel awards.

-David


[This message has been edited by LIH Prem (edited 10-26-2002).]

56k starwood points buys 5 days at a luxury, top of the line Starwood, with no blackouts no capacity limit. How many HHhoners points does it take to stay 5 days in a luxury hotel? Do they have capacity limits/blackout.

It is important not only to look at how many points are required for a free stay or award, but also how easy/difficult it is to accumulate the points in the first place. I'm not familiar enough with *wood, but with HHonors, the frequent promotions and the easy conversion from airmiles, it is relatively easy to accumulate points.

slawecki has a good point concerning the black out dates: HHonors has black out dates, unless you hold their highest status (Diamond). The effect this has on your award travel plans depends on your flexibility and dates you want to travel. They are certainly something to take into account.

If my travel profile was LEISURE ONLY, hotel points wouldn't even enter my mind. I'd use Priceline.com every single time, without question - regardless of the quality level of hotel I was looking for. A top-level elite status MIGHT cause me to think twice, but most top-level statuses are outside the reach of a leisure-only traveler.

Hotel points yield their biggest bang-for-buck for the whopper awards. If you can to those levels with credit card spending, AND you feel that you have more FF miles than you will ever need, I guess you might as well accumulate the points and use 'em for a great international vacation where Priceline and similar services can't help you out.

Just make sure to evaluate all options before you decide to go after hundreds of thousands of hotel points. The last thing you want to have happen is to get halfway to your dream reward and all of a sudden feel trapped into paying $199/night for hotel rooms on leisure stays to earn the points when $60/night would get you the same room without the points.

I concur . . . for the past 2 years or so, I have often wondered if straight out Priceline bidding does not undercut most or all hotel loyalty programs.

Thanks for all the advice. It keeps coming back to Hilton as the easiest way to accumulate points. The idea of using the Delta Skymiles card for this is excellent.

My only hesitation about Hilton is that in the course of my travels I have generally found that Hiltons are not up to the standard of Marriott which, as I said in an earlier post, was my hotel chain of choice for many years.

Contrary to what a couple of people posted, I have found the hotel points valuable. As a former platinum member of Marriott I accumulated hundreds of thousands and the combination awards (air for two and hotel) was always the best deal going. They took me and my family all over the globe.

I used my last hotel award this summer at the Zurich Marriott where for the second year running I was upgraded to concierge, a tremendous benefit at this hotel. Frankly, I don't think this would have happened if I was simply staying there at the least expensive room rate I could secure. I have found that hotels, particularly Marriotts, value the guest who has earned enough points for a reward stay.

I have never done Priceline because I want the flexibility of making last minute changes and I don't think that would be too easy with Priceline. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

At any rate, I do travel a lot, stay in charming local hotels in certain areas (hiking in the alps for example) but in big cities and in resort areas I do like the majors.

Here's one other thought. Is there a way to accumulate all those Hilton points and then convert them via an airline so that they end up as Marriott points?

One other thing to consider with Hilton HHonors is that you can earn points for proile updates (1,000 per quarter) and through pay-per-click programs like MyPoints and E-Rewards. You can also pick up 1,000 points for a GMAC insurance quote.

My wife has picked up 20,000 points this year (which we are redeeming for our holiday stay at the Hotel Roanoke) without ever staying in a Hilton. Since rewards are transferrable, we will stay using my Diamond Number; I will get stay credit; and we'll enjoy Diamond benefits.

It is also a good place for the rescue of orpahned miles. Since you can transfer from Delta, United, Continental, and American, you can get points that are fallow and convert them to free hotel stays.

You have received alot of good and accurate advice here.

Converting points thru other programs is always costly.

Sounds like money is not an issue for you, so go for the program that you like best.

If money were an issue, Priceline would be the route to go. I figure the best hotel programs are worth up to a 15% rebate, plus the upgrades and amenities. It's not unusual to save over 60% when booking on Priceline. Just don't try to cancel a PL stay.

Yep .. that's what you asked. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Which program is best for easy point accumulation.

I generally don't do Hilton either. I agree with you on that, though you'll find many Hilton supporters around here.

I agree .. compare a normal vacation. Where does a leisure traveler spend more money? If your goal is first class or business class travel the answer might be a little different, and even so, the hotel programs have awards that transfer to airline miles too.

The only problem I mentioned is that the earning power of the Marriott FUSA Visa, frankly, sucks, compared to Starwood, Diners Club, and almost any other co-branded card.

Stay with Marriott if you want to, but use a different co-branded card for daily spending and point accumulation. I like the SPG Amex card right now.

Not really. Not in any decent ratio even if there were a way to do it.

Hilton and Diners are generally used as conduits to move air miles from one airline to another or from an airline to Hilton. There's always a loss involved, except for certain times when Diners has a promotion going, you can get miles into one airline (typically BA) with no loss from the miles from the original program. Diners to Marriott and Diners to Starwood are transfers to avoid because the ratios are generally not very good. If you need to top off an account for an award, sure, but as a source of points in general, no.

-David

Ah .. here's one relatively easy source for hotel points, at least with Marriott and Starwood, not sure if Hilton does this, but they might. (Hilton tries to pitch me with cheap stays in Las Vegas which turn out to not be available on any of their strip locations and not be as cheap on the times I might want to go, so I've never gotten far enough with them to actually take a tour.)

During your travels, check if you are traveling to locations where Marriott or Starwood is selling timeshares, then take the timeshare tour. I think Marriott offers 15k MR points for a timeshare tour and when I took the Westin Maui timeshare pitch, I got 7.5k SPG points. Marriott is much easier, because there's less pressure, but the 7.5k SPG points was a better deal, since 1 SPG point is worth much more (relatively) than one MR point. (I couldn't believe the amount of pressure Starwood applied during their pitch .. they just did not want to accept that I was only doing it for the points and kept on insisting that I purchase at least an every other year unit.)

If you do this, just make an agreement with yourself that you are not going to buy at the time of the pitch even if it seems like the best thing since sliced bread. After the pitch wears off and you're still interested in buying, head on over to Timeshare Users Group and start your research.

-David

How many Hilton points does it take to stay in the NYC Waldorf, or the Langham in London for 5 days?

Hilton and Starwood are different currency's

- Starwood awards 2 Points/dollar spent
- Hilton awards 10/dollar spent

- At Diamond level you will earn 15 Points per dollar - Iam currently earning 25 Points /dollar by giving up 500 airmiles per stay - A targeted promotion

The nominal value of the redemption should be 5 times that of starwood You can book 6 six nights almost anywhere in the world for 195,000 - Divide that by 5 and you get 39,000 Starwood Points

Apples need to be compared to Apples not Oranges

We're getting closer to the apples and oranges. If I generate most of my points on regular old credit card charges, how many Hilton points do I get per dollar spent on the best card. I know I get 1 SPG point per dollar. Another way of putting it is, can I get about 160,000 points for spending $56,000, with all the bonuses thrown in?

If you can put it all on a Hilton Amex, you won't need a bonus - you'll get 3 points/$. If you can put it all on a DL Amex on weekends (the double mileage promo coming up), you'll get 4/$. If you have to go Visa/MC, 2/$ is about the best I think you can do right now.

I am learning so much from all of your responses. I can't thank you enough.

Re the timeshares, I had thought about that and there is one close to where I live that is offering 10,000 Marriott points. However the fine print says that I must be a homeowner and I'm currently between houses having just closed on my old one last month and not yet in a new one. Do you think this is really a hard and fast rule or one that can be fudged a little? I'd love to get those 10,000 points.

They seem to be fairly strict about awarding the bonus to their target market. Also, both you and your spouse must attend, and you have to have a certain income level. (Not sure how the income levels apply to retirees .. perhaps they use net worth instead in that case.)

My suggestion would be to call. Since you were a homeowner and are going to be one again, then you might meet their marketing target.

The other side of the coin .. they don't actually check tax returns or real estate records, but you do have to sign something stating that you meet the requirements.

-David

Last time I checked, you could also earn some Starwood points with AT&T. Both as a switching bonus and for using their service.

Yes ..

www.att.com/starwood
2000 Point sign-up bonus, then 1 SPG point per dollar spent.

And www.att.com/marriott
5000 point sign-up bonus, then 5 MR points per dollar spent.

Last time I suggested the ATT/SPG deal, it was shot down by Randy since there are better mileage earning deals with the airlines.

-David

Another reason to go with Hilton is they have a big footprint and a wide variety of choices. For example, I often travel to Tallahassee, FL. I am not aware of a Starwood property there. There are a few Marriott Courtyards. Hilton has a downtown Doubletree and several Hampton Inns.

On the other hand, if you demand luxury accomodations, its hard to beat Starwood.

For leisure travel, consider Hampton Inns. A good value and generally very new properties. I had never stayed at at HI until recently and was impressed.

I concur with the Priceline suggestion, although I prefer Hotwire. It seems a bit more expensive but you have a better idea where you will be staying IMHO. For example, I recently stayed at the Ft. Laud. Embassy Suites for $69.

Also, check out the Hilton Amex which has no fee, pays 3 HH points per dollar spent, and 5 points on dollars spent at Hilton. There is also a Hilton Visa that pays 2/3 points.

If you go with Hilton, visit the Hilton forum. Getting gold status is not difficult, and with silver or gold you can redeem the ALON and GLON awards which are the best bang for the buck.

I also prefer Hotwire, but it is generally not an either/or thing. When I know that I need to go to a certain city on a certain date (or range of dates) I check first with Hotwire, and that site gives me a quote. I make sure that I add into that price the taxes and fees and then use that figure as my ceiling for my bid on Priceline, after taking into account Priceline's surcharge.

Hotwire does not have hotels in as many locations as Priceline, so sometimes I cannot do this. Also, it is important to also check hotel prices with several other search engines (eg, Expedia, Quikbook, Travelweb, etc.) because sometimes they offer prices that Hotwire and Priceline can't match, especially to cities with many leisure travelers, such as Las Vegas and Orlando.

If you want to increase the predictability of what you are bidding on at PCLN, go to the biddingfortravel.com board to do some research before you bid. Immediate benefit #1 is that you can view a vast repository of winning and losing bids by city, zone, and class of hotel. Therefore, your first Priceline bid won't be way too high. Benefit #2 is that you get to see exactly what hotels people are getting by class and zone. You can find some zone-classes where you know EXACTLY what hotel you are bidding on before you even start.

If you go to this board and then plan on making a post (for advice or whatever), carefully read the FAQs and search all related boards to see if your topic has been covered. Otherwise, put on your flame-retardant suit, because they will rip you a new one. The posting community there is a LOT different than this mellow bunch of FT'ers.

Back to my original question. Which hotel program is easiest to accumulate points?


As everyone pointed out, it is easier to accumulate Hilton points than Starwood or Marriott.But today when I did a little search of properties, I saw that what I had surmised turned out to be true. The Hilton list of properties, where I travel, is woefully limited. They just about don't exist in Europe. Marriott and Starwood have it all locked up. And in the US resort areas as well as major cities, they just don't compare. For example, Marriott's Camelback Inn and Starwood's Phoenician in Scottsdale vs. Hilton's two Phoenix resorts (I can't remember their names). I've stayed at both and trust me, there is a MAJOR difference.

Starwood has some excellent value awards especially now that they added their nights and flights category. But it is harder to accumulate. Ditto for Marriott.

I still don't know just which way I will go.In the meantime I am signing up (again) for every credit card with lots of bonus points and looking around for timeshare tour bonus points. Since we are not traveling currently, (while searching for a new home), I'll have time to ponder the hotel points picture.

For HHonors VIPs, each of these hotels can be had for 150,000 points for a six-night stay.

Mike

Well, when you find your new home, if you take a mortgage loan on it, you can get points for that too.

United partners with eloan and lending tree. I'm not sure who the other majors partner with.

I don't know of any hotel programs that have mortgage partners.

-David

Which is about 2-2.5x the Starwood point count for a similar hotel.

What is a HH VIP? does that require some number of paid stays or days?

What happens if one is not a VIP?

At starwood, the rate is the same for all, upgrades come with status.



[This message has been edited by slawecki (edited 10-31-2002).]

VIP = any elite status in the HHonors program. Review the HHonors.com website for official stay requirements for each elite level. Review the HHonors board here on FT for fast-tracks to elite status, including ways to reach Gold without a single stay.

If you aren't a VIP, you don't have access to the six-night awards that everybody talks about. However, I don't think there is a Flyertalker who ISN'T a VIP. Again: read the HH board and you'll quickly see why.

Pointsgalore, I have a recommendation if you decide to go with Marriott.

You had mentioned earlier in the thread that they were your hotel chain of choice at one time. Because of that, you might want to investigate whether or not you qualify for Emeritus level status with Marriott. I don't want to get into a long description of the advantages and qualifications, but basically, you can earn any status level (silver, gold, platinum) for life. You can, of course, have a higher annual level (if you were, for example, Gold Emeritus, but had earned Platinum for that year), but Emeritus guarantees that you will never fall below that status level again.

If you drop by the Marriott board, a simple search should reveal several discussions of Emeritus qualification standards and benefits pertaining thereunto.


[This message has been edited by Just Passing Thru (edited 10-31-2002).]

Comparing absolute point counts between programs is useless: you earn points in totally different numbers/rates between different programs. Its like comparing Kilometers and Miles: 3 Miles is not a longer distance than 4 Kilometers, because 4 is larger than 3, but because 1 mile equals 1.609344 kilometer... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Similar: 1 *wood point does not equal 1 HHonor point.

If you compare programs on the absolute point count you'll probably make the wrong decision.

[This message has been edited by ql2112 (edited 10-31-2002).]