The same award being "2-2.5x" less at Starwood doesn't take into account the ease by which Hilton points can be obtained, as opposed to Starwood. With the numerous amount of 50,000 point promos that Hilton has, combined with 10 points/$ and airline:HH redemption of 1:2, it doesn't take a whole heck of a lot to get to 150,000.

To say that Starwood awards are cheaper because they require fewer points is, IMHO, analagous to saying that an item that costs US$65 is cheaper than the same item that would cost $100 Canadian, because you're not looking at the value of each currency in relation to the other.

Hilton VIPs are Silver, Gold, and Diamond - which do require minimum stay/night requirements. However, keep in mind that Silvers, who only need to stay four times in one year, are eligible for the VIP awards as well. (If someone has the points to redeem for it, I'd assume that they've at least stayed four times.)

If someone is not a VIP, they likely won't have the number of points required to meet the 150,000. If they happen to, they can always sign up for a fast-track program (just like Starwood has), or they can make the four stays to get to Silver.

Mike

Here is an example of how easy it is to earn points at Hilton.

Just stayed at a Doubletree at a $159 rate. With taxes/room service it was $176.00. 1,760 points for the stay, plus 25% bonus for being gold plus 500 DL miles as a double dip (=1000 HH miles when converted) plus 5*176 for using the Hilton Amex plus 20,000 bonus for it being my 4th stay as part of the CNTU promotion = approx. 32,000 HH points.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pinniped:
If my travel profile was LEISURE ONLY, hotel points wouldn't even enter my mind. I'd use Priceline.com every single time, without question - regardless of the quality level of hotel I was looking for. A top-level elite status MIGHT cause me to think twice, but most top-level statuses are outside the reach of a leisure-only traveler.


Let's hear it for Hyatt. They'll count Priceline stays toward elite qualification, and provide elite amenities for Priceline stays by qualifying Gold Passport members (e.g. evening food amenity, free continental breakfast, and room upgrade at Diamond level). And Hyatt often comes up on Priceline. So with this program, you might be able to have your cake and eat it too, but you won't accumulate many award points on Priceline stays.

I guess the basic answer to this type of question is, as always, that it depends on your travel patterns. If your travel will generally take you to cities with populations of 50,000 or more, go with Starwood. They have the easiest program to reach top elite status and the Amex Starwood card is probably the best affinity card available. Additionally, Starwood maintains an active, official presence here on FlyerTalk. This individual AKA the Starwood Lurker has been a great help to members here in resolving problems and providing insight and information about the Starwood program. The downside with Starwood is that you generally not find their properties in the hinterlands.

If you think that a significant part of your travel will be to more rural areas, then your best choices are Marriott or Hilton. I am a top tier elite with both programs, Based on my experience, I would suggest using both, keeping Marriott as your primary choice. As others have noted, it is easy (based on what now appear to be annual promos) to obtain and maintain Gold status with HHonors. That's great because you do get some upgrades at the Gold level and it gives you access to their VIP awards which include their GLON and GLONP awards. If you manage to reach their Diamond level, there are some nice extra benefits. There are no blackout dates for awards and they have a dedicated customer service unit just for Diamonds (which is quite good). The downside with HHonors is that it seems like everyone is Gold and the hotel staffs know it.

Several people here have made much about the 50K promos that HHonors has almost annually, but no one has mentioned all of Marriott's free nights promos that they have and are currently running. The most common (and current) type has been the 'stay 3 times and get 2 free weekend nights'. If you had participated in HHonors 50K promos over 2 years, you would have accumulated 100K points through them which is enough for 6 free nights using a GLON award. However, over the last 15 months, my spouse and I have accumulated 11 (soon to be 13) free nights with Marriott using their promos. That's 13 nights vs 6 nights; a significant difference to me. In fairness, I must note that free nights with Marriott are for hotel categories 1, 2, 3 and 4 while the GLON award is any HHonors property except their Premium properties.

I think that Marriott has two other advantages. First is the Fairfield branded properties. I travel a lot (on my own dime) and use them frequently. They offer good clean, basic accomodations in a price range lower than any HHonors property. Stays at Fairfields aren't luxurious, but count just as much as those at premium hotels when it comes to earning status. Another advantage with Marriott is their Travel Package Awards. Depending on hotel category, you can get an award for 215K-250K points that will also yield 100K airline miles in addition to 7 free nights. Those 100K miles can be deposited with Delta. These 100K Delta miles can then be transferred to 200K HHonors points which is enough for 2 GLON awards with them. So for 250K Marriott points, you get an award for 7 free nights at any Marriott worldwide and 12 free nights at most HHonors properties!!

Note that Marriott has started improving benefits for their top tier Platinum members. They have just established a separate phone number and staff for dealing with Platinums. Additionally, they are now guaranteeing smoking/non-smoking and bedding preference for their Gold and Platinum members. However, they still have award black out dates for their Platinum elites.

Overall, my suggestions:
More Urban Travel: Starwood
More Rural Travel: Marriott, keeping HHonors as a secondary (and staying with HHonors enough to meet their promos regarding Gold status and 50K points)

Edited to fix pesky URL's.

[This message has been edited by BillMorrow (edited 11-01-2002).]

Thank you, BillMorrow, for your very thoughtful response to my question. This valuable information is exactly what I was looking for.

If you could, I'd like your opinion on the relative merits of the Starwood Nights and Flights award vs the Marriott combination awards.

Also, you mention how easy it is to achieve elite status with Starwood. Could you explain a little about this please?

They never check. They just don't want bums off the street to walk in and ask for their free toaster, coffee maker, points, etc. This way they can say it's a targeted offer, but it's really targeted at anyone who can afford such an offer.

As noted above, Marriott takes "NO!" for an answer rather more easily than other timeshare purveyors. Also, if you take the time to sit down and do the math the timeshare things are almost always a bad deal.

[****ed typos!]

[This message has been edited by xyzzy (edited 11-01-2002).]

Points Galore,

Sorry, but not having stayed with Starwood in the last two years, I don't feel qualified to comment on their "Starwood Nights and Flights" awards. Perhaps someone else who's familiar with it can comment.

As to attaining elite status, here's the requirements for the 3 programs:
Starwood Preferred Guest
-Gold 10 stays or 25 nights
-Platinum 20 stays or 40 nights ****
HHonors
-Silver 4 stays or 10 nights
-Gold 16 stays or 36 nights
-Diamond 28 stays or 60 nights
Marriott Rewards
-Silver 15 nights
-Gold 50 nights
-Platinum 75 nights!!
As you can see, it is possible to achieve top tier elite status with Starwood in as little as 20 nights (thru 20 different stays). I know of FlyerTalkers, who if in NYC for 3 nights will stay at a different Starwood property each night to keep on them on track to maintain Platinum status.

Here's a link to a Starwood page that compares different hotel affinity programs - just a bit slanted in Starwood's favor

Some other thoughts:
1. Here on FlyerTalk, Starwood generally has the best reputation for success of upgrades for its top tier elites. This is followed by HHonors and finally Marriott. What keeps a lot of people coming back to Marriott is it's general consistency of quality product.
2. One of HHonors nice perks is their 'Double Dip' program. Personally, I send my Double Dip points to the Amtrak program (do this also with Hertz points/miles). If you stay within one zone, you can get a free ticket (coach) rather easily.
3. If you plan on much travel outside of the US, take a look at Intercontinental's Six Continents Club. It is both within and separate from the Priority Club program. Although it costs $135 to join (and $50/year to renew); it is worth the money if you travel internationally. For your fee, you are always upgraded at least 1 room category and you also receive, annually, a 1 free weekend night with a paid night certificate. The best 'value' stay I have ever had anywhere was using one of those certificates at the Willard in DC. I got an upgrade to a corner suite that was gorgeous on a cheap weekend rate. Note that if you join the 6C program, you also automatically become top tier elite in the Priority Club program. I'm not generally a fan of Priority Club properties in the US.
4 There is one disadvantage (in my mind) to the Starwood program. You must have the points available in your account at the time you make an award reservation. With HHonors and Marriott, you can make the award reservation and still continue to accrue the needed points for the award. This is somewhat mitigated by Starwood's true no blackouts (for all members, not just elite), but doesn't do you a lot of good if the hotel sells out for a special event before you've accrued enough points for an award at that property.

[This message has been edited by BillMorrow (edited 11-01-2002).]

I'd like to point out that the "Double-Double" promotion of last fall and winter (all Visa-paid stays, starting with the second, earn double points and double nights credit) made Marriott Platinum easier to earn than most other chains' mid-level elite status. I myself earned 2003 MR Plat before Valentine's Day of 2002. Others can probably tell similar stories.

Just because Marriott's promotions don't involve big numbers like Hilton's do, don't automatically discount them. The devil is in the details -- or the Platinum is, I forget which. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

HHonors has the Hampton Inn brand. In the rural/suburban areas, I find them to be pretty good, and in the same general price ballpark as a Fairfield Inn. Hampton also has more-expensive and larger urban hotels in a few places, and I'm less impressed with those. But if you need cheap HH stays, the Hampton is usually a reliable choice.

I've also done a few Hilton Garden Inn stays on $49 or $59 rates. HGI is usually higher than this, but I always make sure to look them up because the properties are newer as a general rule.

Starwood and Hilton are the players right now. Marriott is not even in the running in terms of earning points, stay requirements and outdated properties. It will be interesting to see what effect the "Great Gold Give-Away " at Hilton will have on Starwood and distant # 3 Marriott. I sure hope they continue to one up each other, as we all win!

Or maybe I should say Hilton's terrible and hope they improve their program??? Thoughts on employing negative posts in order to try influencing positive program changes? Let me take it another step further, Since the Airlines and the Hotels chains love to play the targeted promotion game, Let's fight fire with fire. Let's target a particular chain and let the Power of the Internet works it's magic!