With the airlines changing to "no standby/use it or loose it" policy or $100 to change the ticket doeeesn't it seem that the airlines should have to compensate the flyer if they cancel the flight for any reason other than weather?

I mean if they want us to pay to change our plans so they can have us use what we pay for why shouldn't they have to pay for not providing the service?

I know they have to get you on the next flights or one of the competitors if not withinn 2 hours but I am talking about further compensation like they want us to pay for early/missed flights?


Any thoughts?

It's a logical idea. Unfortunately, I think it will only happen as a customer service initiative.

In addition, you'd hate for an airline to use a plane with a borderline safety problem only because they don't want to pay for the cancellation. Somewhat like the auto companies' rumored decisions to not fix a defect because the recall would cost $X while the liability claims would likely total only 1/2 of $X.

Ok, this is going to sound harsh but they asked for it...

They should pay. For any reason including some things that one does not talk about. Weather is the least of the things that should not be excluded.

Their policy is no exceptions. Including death. They should take their own medicine.

It's only fair.

[This message has been edited by TomBascom (edited 08-31-2002).]

I think there would have to be a class action lawsuit to make the airlines pay a remedy to passengers for non performance since they are now starting to charge fees to standby on other flights.

I don't believe they would offer this without being forced to by a judgement.

I totally agree with the concept of use it or lose it. If one makes a booking for a specific seat on a specific flight, and fail to take the trip, you deserve to lose the full amount you've paid unless you buy insurance or a refundable fare ticket. Why should the airline pay for your behavior?

As for their compensation for cancelled/delayed flights, there are many circumstances which can result in a cancelled or delayed flight. The regulations and tarrifs in effect allow for such eventualities, and airlines are required to get you to your destination on the next scheduled flight, or within 24-hours if that is possible.

I don't understand the complaining going on now that many full service carriers are adopting the conventions of discount airlines line SouthWest, or doing what foreign carriers like BA have been doing for years.

Grow up and get some responsibility people...

If the airlines want the passengers to be 100% accountable for flying on every leg of any discount ticket or the airline will cancel the remaining flights on the ticket THEN the airline will need to perform and quit hiding behind excuses for not deliverying the product (reliable and timely scheduled service)

There are way too many equipment delays, weather delays from other cities, etc that Continental pulls on us every day.

This policy that CO has adopted is probaly going to create a mass exodus from CO.

Lets see what happens.

[This message has been edited by Radiocycle (edited 08-31-2002).]

Shareholder,
I am going to paste in a letter I have used which has some good points in it for your consideration:
There are at least five significant differences between low fare carriers and US/CO/AA new ticket change rules:

1. Southwest does not charge a change fee, ever. US Airways and other majors nearly always charge $100;
2. If you need to take a different flight at the last minute, Southwest's walk-up fare is no more than $299 one way. US/CO/AA almost always charge more, often three or four times as much;
3. If you miss your Southwest flight, whether accidentally by five minutes or intentionally by six months, you don't lose the ticket value. On AA/CO, apparently you have until midnight, and on US, apparently it's gone at pushback;
4. On Southwest you can rebook unused travel credit anytime with no change fee, and if you rebook online you get double frequent flyer credit (which is actually a sound way to save distribution costs;
5. While it's true that JetBlue has a use-it-or-lose-it rule, they don't charge an arm and a leg for a walk-up fare, and their change fee is only $25.

Also, the airlines keep saying this is just like buying theatre tickets, but not using them: the theatres or other show/sporting event venues won't honor your tickets for another night.

well, sorry guys, that's not entirely true.

broadway tickets say "no refunds, no exchanges," but it's longstanding practice to honor tickets for another night if weather or illness or traffic or "unforseen circumstances" prevent you from attending.

simply go to the box office, tell them what happened and provided there are seats available for another night, management will generally be very understanding.

no extra fee.

if the show is not selling well, they may exchange tickets on the spot. if it's a semi-hot show, they may ask you to come by an hour or so before the show and standby and only release tickets to you five minutes before the show starts, if seats remain unsold.

now, obviously, this is not going to work at "hairspray," "the producers," or any other show where every seat is filled with paying customers every night. (but you wouldn't have a realistic expectation of being able to fly standby to fort lauderdale during spring break, either.)

you'd be surprised at how flexible and understanding box office personnel can be. they recognize that unsold tickets representing empty seats have absolutely no value once the curtain goes up. which, by the way (if you really want to compare the theatre to airlines) is why their yield management systems release half-price tickets for unsold seats on the day of performance.

and don't forget... despite the stated "no refunds, no exchanges" policy, broadway theatres routinely offer refunds and exchanges when a star is out of the show or when a customer presents extenuating circumstances.

I can personally vouch for this because on one occasion I was able to use a ticket the next day at the Wang Center For The Performing Arts because I missed the show. So this is not just conjecture, but actually represents operational practices of these businesses. I also talked to another person who had somebody sitting in their seat for a BC football game. The person went to "customer service," and they refunded the persons ticket and helped them find another place to watch the game, and offered to have security come and get the person their original seat which the person declined. But they did get a refund on a nonrefundable game ticket apparently for the inconvience of the whole thing.

Finally here is a column from Joe Brancatelli, one of the most respected US travel writers about airlines new policies. You may have already read this?

This column is Copyright � 2002

US Airways Tries Suicide
by Joe Brancatelli.

August 30, 2002
-- Nearly 72 hours after US Airways put a metaphoric gun to its corporate head Tuesday with a package of fare and frequent-flyer moves that can only be described as suicidal, we head off for a Labor Day weekend that may very well define the face of American commercial aviation for decades to come.

One of three things is likely to happen over this weekend.

Scenario One: While our attention is diverted by the usual Labor Day diversions, the five other major full-service carriers will match US Airways new policies and sow the seeds of their own destruction. History will then record that this was the package of policies too stupid, the collection of rules too restrictive, and the service cuts too blatant. Years from now we will note that this was the weekend when the Big Six finally drove leisure travelers and frequent flyers into the arms of the alternate airlines forever and ever.

Scenario Two: Frightened by the unprecedented outpouring of rage and resistance from travelers of all stripes, none of the other Big Six carriers match US Airways. And, of course, US Airways, standing alone with a gun pointed at its head, will relent next week. History will then record that this was the weekend the Big Six finally realized they must simplify and rationalize their fare structures because travelers simply will not accept any other option.

Scenario Three: The other Big Six carriers do not match US Airways and the dunderheaded fools who run US Airways nevertheless stick to their plans and try to go it alone. That will result in the extinction of the already bankrupt US Airways in record time.

To tell you the truth, I honestly don't give a **** which of the three scenarios The Big Six choose. Live or die. Change or collapse. Hang together or hang separately. Who the hell cares anymore? The foolish men who run the nation's major mainline airlines have now proven beyond the scintilla of a shadow of a reasonable doubt that they are clueless about business and unable to grasp even the most basic precepts of a free-market economy.

On the off chance you missed it--and I don't know how you could have--here is some of what US Airways said Tuesday.

USE IT OR LOSE IT "Effective immediately, non-refundable fares � must be used for the specifically ticketed flight and will have no value once the flight
has departed. Under the previous policy," US Airways reminded us, "the value of an unused non-refundable ticket could be credited toward the purchase of another US Airways ticket, less the applicable reissue fee, for up to one year."

NO STANDBYS "Customers who have non-refundable tickets will not be allowed to stand-by for alternate flights," US Airways announced.

NO ELITE CREDIT FOR LOW FARES "Customers ticketed on non-refundable fares will continue to earn full Dividend Miles credit," US Airways said. "Effective
for travel January 1, 2003, and beyond, miles and segments earned on most non-refundable fares will not count toward Dividend Miles Chairman's Preferred, Gold Preferred and Silver Preferred status."

You don't really need me to tell you what's wrong, on a strictly tactical basis, with these absurd moves. But it's my job to point this out, so�

If you tell leisure travelers buying low fares that they can never change their flights, they won't fly US Airways. And if the entire Big Six matches US Airways, leisure travelers won't fly them, either. They'll fly the alternate carriers. Or they'll drive. Or they'll stay home.

If you tell business travelers who occasionally score a low fare that they can't standby if they miss their flight or can't change their nonrefundable ticket, they will not buy higher priced fares from US Airways. They'll fly some other carrier. And if all the Big Six match US Airways, they'll switch to the alternate carriers. Or they'll just stay in their offices.

If you tell business travelers that discount tickets don't count toward their elite status, they will tell you to stuff your program. They'll defect in droves to any carrier that does offer mile-for-mile credit. They sure as hell won't fly US Airways anymore. And if the Big Six all match US Airways, then business travelers will shrug their shoulders and start flying someone--anyone--else.

And you really don't need me to express outrage on your behalf. In the nearly 72 hours since US Airways made these bizarre policy changes, your rage and your commitment to resist has shaken the airline industry to its core. There has never been this kind of immediate and spontaneous uprising.

But I do want to say this: This shows you how strategically inept and incompetent the major airlines are. They know nothing about customer relations. They know nothing about how markets work. They seem incapable of understanding that the markets set the agenda, not them. The Big Six airlines can, of course, impose these changes if they wish. And customers have the right not to fly them. Guess who's gonna win that one?

And I say this: Go have a great Labor Day weekend. Don't waste another moment of this last holiday of the summer worrying about this. If the other Big Six airlines pull US Airways back from the edge, great. If they choose to drive off the precipice with US Airways, fine, too.

On Tuesday, when we see what the Big Six have chosen to do, we'll do what we have to do. We're the market, not them. In the long run, we're in control, not them.

What do you think? I'd like to know. Contact me at [email protected].

Have you never been on an oversold flight?

Have you never had a "check in required" seat?

The reservation is a place in the queue for that seat. That's it. It's not perishable and the airline doesn't "lose money" when you don't make the flight.

Just as there are many circumstances which can lead to a passenger missing a flight.

And it if it happens at the origination of the trip it is often pointless to take the trip. But you can't get your money back.

That's what they want you to think they are doing. But they are not adopting Southwests policies -- the differences are huge (and have been posted elsewhere in the thread).

What they have done is to turn all "discount" tickets (and that term is very loosely used, it includes tickets booked in F and tickets as expensive as $1,500) into "Priceline" tickets but at the current prices -- not the Priceline price which would typically be 1/2 to 1/3rd of a "V" fare.

Pehaps the airline should take that advice?

This is precisely what they want you to think -- that this only applies to people that are gaming the system. That isn't true. It affects everyone. No exceptions.

Instead of fixing what is wrong, namely a pricing structure that is broken beyond rational description, they have cooked up this punitive and usurious method of jacking up fares an unprecendented amount without appearing to do so. You cannot buy the same product that you were buying last week without paying 50% to 500% more money. And most people have no idea that that has happened and won't find out until something "that will never happen to me" happens.

[This message has been edited by TomBascom (edited 09-01-2002).]

Two items:

First about airlines paying customers for cancelled flights - I sent a note to UA proposing this. Unfortunately, no reply.

As for the others guys following USA, NW has been the rebel this year by not matching fare increases and having fun with UA vs their purported loan problems. Think they would follow USA or rather be a spoiler? Guess we'll see.

NW is my hope in this insanity. I believe that NW is comfortable with its current business model and that NW will be one of survivors that get through this situation stronger than when they entered.

CWPFLY

"Also, the airlines keep saying this is just like buying theatre tickets, but not using them: the theatres or other show/sporting event venues won't honor your tickets for another night."

You can usually arrive late at these events however and still be seated. With the airlines, unforseen traffic from a car accident and the tickets are useless.

And using the sporting event or theater comparison, why doesn't the airline alow you to make the ticket TRANSFERABLE. If I can't make a show I bought a ticket for, I can give it to someone else for them to use, the theater doesn't look to see if my seat is empty and sell it to someone else, like the airlines do if a flight was oversold. Come to think of it, theaters don't sell more seats than the theater holds.

So again oh marketing people, how is a non refundable ticket like a theater ticket?