Getting FF points on cancelled, non-refundable tickets
Feb 27, 2007 | 4:49 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 7,368
Not true. The Delta AMEX card gives as much as 25K points in a year that count toward elite status, and that is enough to reach the Silver Medallion level. Also, all credits earned in Southwest's RR program, including credit cards, go toward the Companion Pass. And with United, you can simply pay a fee and get Premier status.
Mike
Feb 28, 2007 | 12:44 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DC Metro (WAS--DCA/IAD/BWI)
Programs: AA Plat 2MM, OW Sapphire, QF Bronze, Marriott Silver, Starwood Gold; National Emerald
Posts: 2,535
The airline makes more money on tickets such as mine that go to waste and are canceled within a few days, allowing them to resell it or just have an empty seat that was paid for. The airline doesn't get any higher market value from me actually sitting on their plane, watching their videos, eating their food, and then them handling my bags. So if it's no skin off their backs, I don't see why they wouldn't allow it.
We do MRs seeking penny a mile (total miles) fares.
By allowing what you want the airlines to do, there would be able to be hundreds of thousands (or more) elite flyers! That would dilute the benifits to meaninglessness.
Even if they didn't accrue Elite Qualifying anything, it would result in BILLIONS more frequent flyer miles being issued each year, which has a cost associated with the redemption of those miles for non-revenue seats, and again the massive dilution of award availability for those who actually put their Butt-In-Seat. My BIS miles last year was just over 51k, but that translated into nearly a quarter million miles at just below a penny a mile. Think of what I could have accomplished if I had been able to "fake fly" every nice MR on that forum here. I guarantee I could have shot from peon to lifetime Platinum before the year was out, not having to pay for another flight for a decade or more, and coasting with lifetime second tier elite flyer benifits.
Also, AA sells those miles to companies for something like 2 to 2.5 cents per mile, so why would they undercut their own profits in that arena also?
Just from a basic standpoint, since noone allows it, obviously the airlines think the cost to them for that IS greater than the reward. They don't have to tell you why they think that--they do, so that's that.
Feb 28, 2007 | 1:24 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,062
I have a theory on why they wont do it... long shot but here goes:
1 x 5,000 = 5,000.
2 x 5,000 = 10,000.
0 x 5,000 = 0.
0 x 10,000 = 0.
Ok, so what?
Well, it's simple math. When you fly, you are 1 person earning 1 mile for every, well, mile they fly. You are ON the plane so you are attached to those miles. If it were to stop flying when you are on it, say, if it were to get re-routed in flight and touch down in a different airport due to say, weather or something, you may get less or more miles depending on that. You actually sat there GETTING the miles.
if you fly 5,000 miles, you GET 5,000 miles. Now, if you are elite, you may get double because of some promo or status allowance. that's why 2 x 5,000!
BUT...
If you do NOT fly, then you are personally getting 0 miles because you are not flying any miles! It does not matter WHAT status or promo you have, you get nuthin cuz you did nuthin! It flew without you and so you get 0.0. Not a good grade point average either! And, Mr. Blutowski, you puked ON Dean Wormer!
They will give miles out to people who actually do the game of getting onto one of their planes. It's kinda not about the money. After all, one day you may pay $500 for the flight that earns you 5,000 miles and on another day, you may pay $150 for the same 5,000 mile flight. As well, your company could foot the bill, put you in first class and give you status too, and you STILL get those miles (maybe double if they do that and you get status, etc)
So it's not the MONEY you are spending with the airlines that gives you miles, it's the actual FLYING that you must in fact do within this particular game! It's just one of the basic rules of said game. Probably so understood it's not even mentioned anywhere, but then again, seeing as how it is an airline, I wouldnt be surprised if it is! ("Unless designated by promotion or other activity, a person must fly to get miles" is probably written somewhere on your ticket or some documentation relating to travel)
Now, none of this really explains how a credit card or a shopping portal can get away with it and give you miles for no flights actually taken, but they have designed and built a possibly profitable and ongoing relationship with the airline and so that's probably why they do it for them and their activity. If you do that successfully, they may allow you to get miles without flying too, but I would imagine you'd have to drum up a TON of big business for them on an ongoing basis before they'd even consider it. You are not Target or Best Buy and you are not Citicard or Chase. Your $200 ticket thusly does nothing for them except on a one time basis. Hey, I think it is, but I am not the airline. And yeah, sure, if you do not fly, they can re sell it and maybe MAKE $200+ more on you, but that's still nothing compared to the residuals that are gained from the big name, big money partners found in the world of marketing partner portals and credit cards.
our activity is but a blip on the screen compared to those players. But to counter this, "citibank" itself cannot buy a seat and fly itself. It earns no miles. We get those when we SIT in the seat!
Besides, it wants you to go through the gauntlet/pain of having to eat their food and deal with all the other crap to get from A-B.
If you don't, you are 0. And we all know that 0 x $400,191,886,821.07 is STILL 0.
(well, wait, if you are going to give them THAT much money, maybe they'd make an exception -just this once, sir...)
MM
1 x 5,000 = 5,000.
2 x 5,000 = 10,000.
0 x 5,000 = 0.
0 x 10,000 = 0.
Ok, so what?
Well, it's simple math. When you fly, you are 1 person earning 1 mile for every, well, mile they fly. You are ON the plane so you are attached to those miles. If it were to stop flying when you are on it, say, if it were to get re-routed in flight and touch down in a different airport due to say, weather or something, you may get less or more miles depending on that. You actually sat there GETTING the miles.
if you fly 5,000 miles, you GET 5,000 miles. Now, if you are elite, you may get double because of some promo or status allowance. that's why 2 x 5,000!
BUT...
If you do NOT fly, then you are personally getting 0 miles because you are not flying any miles! It does not matter WHAT status or promo you have, you get nuthin cuz you did nuthin! It flew without you and so you get 0.0. Not a good grade point average either! And, Mr. Blutowski, you puked ON Dean Wormer!
They will give miles out to people who actually do the game of getting onto one of their planes. It's kinda not about the money. After all, one day you may pay $500 for the flight that earns you 5,000 miles and on another day, you may pay $150 for the same 5,000 mile flight. As well, your company could foot the bill, put you in first class and give you status too, and you STILL get those miles (maybe double if they do that and you get status, etc)
So it's not the MONEY you are spending with the airlines that gives you miles, it's the actual FLYING that you must in fact do within this particular game! It's just one of the basic rules of said game. Probably so understood it's not even mentioned anywhere, but then again, seeing as how it is an airline, I wouldnt be surprised if it is! ("Unless designated by promotion or other activity, a person must fly to get miles" is probably written somewhere on your ticket or some documentation relating to travel)
Now, none of this really explains how a credit card or a shopping portal can get away with it and give you miles for no flights actually taken, but they have designed and built a possibly profitable and ongoing relationship with the airline and so that's probably why they do it for them and their activity. If you do that successfully, they may allow you to get miles without flying too, but I would imagine you'd have to drum up a TON of big business for them on an ongoing basis before they'd even consider it. You are not Target or Best Buy and you are not Citicard or Chase. Your $200 ticket thusly does nothing for them except on a one time basis. Hey, I think it is, but I am not the airline. And yeah, sure, if you do not fly, they can re sell it and maybe MAKE $200+ more on you, but that's still nothing compared to the residuals that are gained from the big name, big money partners found in the world of marketing partner portals and credit cards.
our activity is but a blip on the screen compared to those players. But to counter this, "citibank" itself cannot buy a seat and fly itself. It earns no miles. We get those when we SIT in the seat!
Besides, it wants you to go through the gauntlet/pain of having to eat their food and deal with all the other crap to get from A-B.
If you don't, you are 0. And we all know that 0 x $400,191,886,821.07 is STILL 0.
(well, wait, if you are going to give them THAT much money, maybe they'd make an exception -just this once, sir...)
MM
Mar 16, 2007 | 8:27 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,730
I have a theory on why they wont do it... long shot but here goes:
1 x 5,000 = 5,000.
2 x 5,000 = 10,000.
0 x 5,000 = 0.
0 x 10,000 = 0.
Ok, so what?
Well, it's simple math. When you fly, you are 1 person earning 1 mile for every, well, mile they fly. You are ON the plane so you are attached to those miles. If it were to stop flying when you are on it, say, if it were to get re-routed in flight and touch down in a different airport due to say, weather or something, you may get less or more miles depending on that. You actually sat there GETTING the miles.
if you fly 5,000 miles, you GET 5,000 miles. Now, if you are elite, you may get double because of some promo or status allowance. that's why 2 x 5,000!
BUT...
If you do NOT fly, then you are personally getting 0 miles because you are not flying any miles! It does not matter WHAT status or promo you have, you get nuthin cuz you did nuthin! It flew without you and so you get 0.0. Not a good grade point average either! And, Mr. Blutowski, you puked ON Dean Wormer!
They will give miles out to people who actually do the game of getting onto one of their planes. It's kinda not about the money. After all, one day you may pay $500 for the flight that earns you 5,000 miles and on another day, you may pay $150 for the same 5,000 mile flight. As well, your company could foot the bill, put you in first class and give you status too, and you STILL get those miles (maybe double if they do that and you get status, etc)
So it's not the MONEY you are spending with the airlines that gives you miles, it's the actual FLYING that you must in fact do within this particular game! It's just one of the basic rules of said game. Probably so understood it's not even mentioned anywhere, but then again, seeing as how it is an airline, I wouldnt be surprised if it is! ("Unless designated by promotion or other activity, a person must fly to get miles" is probably written somewhere on your ticket or some documentation relating to travel)
Now, none of this really explains how a credit card or a shopping portal can get away with it and give you miles for no flights actually taken, but they have designed and built a possibly profitable and ongoing relationship with the airline and so that's probably why they do it for them and their activity. If you do that successfully, they may allow you to get miles without flying too, but I would imagine you'd have to drum up a TON of big business for them on an ongoing basis before they'd even consider it. You are not Target or Best Buy and you are not Citicard or Chase. Your $200 ticket thusly does nothing for them except on a one time basis. Hey, I think it is, but I am not the airline. And yeah, sure, if you do not fly, they can re sell it and maybe MAKE $200+ more on you, but that's still nothing compared to the residuals that are gained from the big name, big money partners found in the world of marketing partner portals and credit cards.
our activity is but a blip on the screen compared to those players. But to counter this, "citibank" itself cannot buy a seat and fly itself. It earns no miles. We get those when we SIT in the seat!
Besides, it wants you to go through the gauntlet/pain of having to eat their food and deal with all the other crap to get from A-B.
If you don't, you are 0. And we all know that 0 x $400,191,886,821.07 is STILL 0.
(well, wait, if you are going to give them THAT much money, maybe they'd make an exception -just this once, sir...)
MM
1 x 5,000 = 5,000.
2 x 5,000 = 10,000.
0 x 5,000 = 0.
0 x 10,000 = 0.
Ok, so what?
Well, it's simple math. When you fly, you are 1 person earning 1 mile for every, well, mile they fly. You are ON the plane so you are attached to those miles. If it were to stop flying when you are on it, say, if it were to get re-routed in flight and touch down in a different airport due to say, weather or something, you may get less or more miles depending on that. You actually sat there GETTING the miles.
if you fly 5,000 miles, you GET 5,000 miles. Now, if you are elite, you may get double because of some promo or status allowance. that's why 2 x 5,000!
BUT...
If you do NOT fly, then you are personally getting 0 miles because you are not flying any miles! It does not matter WHAT status or promo you have, you get nuthin cuz you did nuthin! It flew without you and so you get 0.0. Not a good grade point average either! And, Mr. Blutowski, you puked ON Dean Wormer!
They will give miles out to people who actually do the game of getting onto one of their planes. It's kinda not about the money. After all, one day you may pay $500 for the flight that earns you 5,000 miles and on another day, you may pay $150 for the same 5,000 mile flight. As well, your company could foot the bill, put you in first class and give you status too, and you STILL get those miles (maybe double if they do that and you get status, etc)
So it's not the MONEY you are spending with the airlines that gives you miles, it's the actual FLYING that you must in fact do within this particular game! It's just one of the basic rules of said game. Probably so understood it's not even mentioned anywhere, but then again, seeing as how it is an airline, I wouldnt be surprised if it is! ("Unless designated by promotion or other activity, a person must fly to get miles" is probably written somewhere on your ticket or some documentation relating to travel)
Now, none of this really explains how a credit card or a shopping portal can get away with it and give you miles for no flights actually taken, but they have designed and built a possibly profitable and ongoing relationship with the airline and so that's probably why they do it for them and their activity. If you do that successfully, they may allow you to get miles without flying too, but I would imagine you'd have to drum up a TON of big business for them on an ongoing basis before they'd even consider it. You are not Target or Best Buy and you are not Citicard or Chase. Your $200 ticket thusly does nothing for them except on a one time basis. Hey, I think it is, but I am not the airline. And yeah, sure, if you do not fly, they can re sell it and maybe MAKE $200+ more on you, but that's still nothing compared to the residuals that are gained from the big name, big money partners found in the world of marketing partner portals and credit cards.
our activity is but a blip on the screen compared to those players. But to counter this, "citibank" itself cannot buy a seat and fly itself. It earns no miles. We get those when we SIT in the seat!
Besides, it wants you to go through the gauntlet/pain of having to eat their food and deal with all the other crap to get from A-B.
If you don't, you are 0. And we all know that 0 x $400,191,886,821.07 is STILL 0.
(well, wait, if you are going to give them THAT much money, maybe they'd make an exception -just this once, sir...)
MMNothing they do makes any sense, businesswise, logically, or in anything other than some abstruse argument for why inefficient behaviour should be rewarded whilst creative and profit-diven thinking is not.
