I suspect there will be more to this story. As stated, I find it hard to believe, even given the paranoia of certain flight crews.

1. My memory is that any person (i.e. - law enforcement) carrying a firearm onto a plane, on their person (even before 9/11), was required to fill out a form which was given to AA. Either the agent complied with that requirement (which means that the pilot had already been told, by management, that he had an armed peace officer on board) or the agent didn't comply with the procedure, which is difficult to imagine. (In order to get through security, with a firearm, I presume that he had to show the right papers to the security people).

2. The supposition about his supervisor being on AF1 doesn't persuade me. There is a duty officer and *lots* of supervisors on the phone 24 hours a day. If it was really a question of whether SA xxx works for the Secret Service, and can be described as xxx, it would be simple to get verification. Even if the flight crew didn't think of this option, I would hope that a member of the presidents security detail would know how to operate a telephone.

Considering the fact that he was on the plane, confirming his identity seems like a moot point that should have been taken care of before.

I would have to believe though that the Maryland State Police certainly have the contacts and ability to verify Secret Service identities in minutes, being they are right next to Washington. Maybe it would be a bit more difficult in Alaska, but being 10 mintues away you would have to assume they work together.

if this person was deadheading, the gun should have been checked. there is no reason that anyone should have a gun in the cabin if not for the purpose of the trip such as escorting a prisoner or being a marshall on duty. i wonder how much the ticket cost? was the person in f or y ? edit to add ... i hope the faa & the rest of the gov't [congress etc] praises the action as being the result of enhanced security!

[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 12-27-2001).]

This is the part of the story I find disturbing apart from the "security" people's failure to verify his id. We all know its better err on the safe side, but a government official, especially one who is overcautious in doing his job, should not be running off to file complaints with a defamation league which may have ties to islamic terrorism itself. He should have gone to his "boss" and had the president make a call.

Actually, in the airport, it's probably the Maryland Transit Authority Police. They have jurisdiction at airports and on the light rail in Baltimore.

He wasn't deadheading. He was going to Texas to protect the President. I'm certain he was on duty.

Undoubtedly, he was traveling on a government contract fare, almost certainly in Y.

Bruce

I beg to differ with you on whether he should have been armed on that flight. Even if he is off duty, he is permitted to carry his weapon. Please tell me the difference between a Secret Service agent and a Sky Marshall if they are both armed. Frankly speaking I would rather have the Secret Service agent on my flight than a sky marshall, based on the years of training that they receive.

I know that some people will argue that the Sky Marshalls are trained to handle disturbances on planes. However as far as I am concerned, to be a Secret Service agent that is part of the presidential detail requires a much higher level of training than any Sky Marshall will receive in his lifetime.



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This is the whole point. Let's review.

ID is irrelevant. Communication with authorities aren't to be trusted. Evidence is entirely unnecessary to make a decision.

In a world like this, police and pilots alike will make just one type of decision, i.e., the wrong one. It's no longer a matter of checking your bags and making sure that your papers are in order. The bar has been raised again. There is no "proper" way to get on an airplane.

Anyone who can possibly be perceived as posing a threat has no rights. Those who detain you have no obligation to provide any evidence. It only gets worse from here.

Where's the guy with the Ben Franklin quote when you need him?

This makes no sense. You had the guy clear security with his gun. That obviously means that someone checked out his credentials and allowed him to carry his gun with him, correct?

So, if that was done, then what's the issue? You already let him carry a weapon with him based upon the presumption that he's a law enforcement officer. If that is the case, then what's the issue? Let him fly.

You let him carry his weapon with him, so his credentials were good enough for that. Now you say they're not good enough for him to fly?

It makes no sense.

"After a delay of an hour and 15 minutes, during which the agent was questioned by the flight's pilot, airline officials and airport police, the agent was ordered removed from the flight even though he had offered to have the Secret Service confirm his identity."

It is quite ironic that our security measures will bar a secret service agent from flying and yet let a terrorst board with explosives in his shoes.

I don't think racial profiling was the reason to subject the secret service agent to questioning, but I do wonder, with all else being equal, had the agent been non-Arabic, would a call have been made to the secret service to confirm his credentials?

the person did not have a job on the airplane that required a gun . the gun should have been checked. imho

Where in the story does it say who filed the complaint?

andrew

I have worked the gates before and had to deal with an armed passenger. Usually its PIT and they have at least two armed plain clothed officers. They fill out a FAA weapons notifcation card which has carbon copies. One goes to the captain, one goes to the airline and one goes with the armed person.
The pilot was well aware of any armed persons coming aboard prior to them actually coming on board.
Now lets talk about what one has to endure to get into the airport.
Walk into airport, go to security screening, sometimes by just showing 1)badge, authority ID card AND drivers Lic they will have u go through, OR security screeners will call Airport police and have them come and verify the armed person.

What AA did was horrible all away around, several steps could have been taken on the spot to solve the situation however its my belief that the crew on the flight didnt want him on the plane period. I swear the crew on the plane, dont dont give a Da** about anything or anyone at the airport, they act as they own the plane and they dont listen from outsiders....

For example when a state police or trooper comes onto an aircraft, they dont give directives they remain silent and when they are asked about airline crew then only then do they do something.

I believe the entire crew on this flight should be on leave for 6 months.

in one word, BS!

had this agent been able to contact a local field office, you can bet your sweet rear end that a whole swarm of dark suits would have shown up at the gate. the secret service phone number is listed in my local (akron, ohio) phone book. captain clueless should have made a simple request to verify the identification presented.

besides, if the guy wasn't really a secret service agent, don't you think that the secret service would've wanted TO KNOW?!?!?!? i'm no lawyer, but i'll bet its a pretty serious federal offense to impersonate as a federal agent!

sorry, but the captain was out of line, and did absolutely nothing to help the situation. his insistance that he was better qualified than security personnel to make a security decision caused this whole fiasco. i certainly hope he is getting some much needed time off to review his actions.

i was giving serious consideration to switching my allegiance to AA from CO/NW. in light of 3 serious post 9/11 incidents, i think the devil i know is better than the one i don't!

ErnestB: Thanks for confirming my memory about the FAA Firearms form. Something is wrong here and I *think* (we will see) that it is something more than a flight crew with bias. I belive that bias does (and, in some cases, should) exist. But after the amount of investigation reported by the press, it is hard to believe that the pilot was allowed to say: "Okay, we know he is really an agent of the US Secret Service, we know that he is allowed to carry a firearm when in the same room with the President, we know that he filed the FAA Firearms form, we know that he was okayed by security and FAA management, but no d**n arab looking guy will ever fly on one of my flights!" Hardly credible. If it really did happen that way I think that heads will roll.