NYT on why FF loyalty is "loony"
Mar 22, 2006 | 5:10 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Prem Exec
Posts: 153
[QUOTE=XStAnt]I have to say his "experiment" regarding seat availability was not a valid test for elite benefits. I don't know any FF program that gives elites a different choice of seats than a non-elite flyer. Airlines want to sell seats and if they have one available they'll sell it to anyone. Hasn't that always been the case?
Northwest Airlines does give better seat access to reward seats for elites, and even better access for Platinum elites. It even tells you as much when you search for reward seats saying something like, you may get better results if you login to your account.
Back when I worked there, there was a specific program that gave platinum elites (maybe lower level too, i don't remember) much better access to certain holiday destinations such as Hawaii, and I believe this was expanded to North Atlantic flights.
Northwest Airlines does give better seat access to reward seats for elites, and even better access for Platinum elites. It even tells you as much when you search for reward seats saying something like, you may get better results if you login to your account.
Back when I worked there, there was a specific program that gave platinum elites (maybe lower level too, i don't remember) much better access to certain holiday destinations such as Hawaii, and I believe this was expanded to North Atlantic flights.
Mar 22, 2006 | 7:37 am
#17
Join Date: May 2003
Location: IAH
Programs: formerly UA GS, now lowly MM lifetime gold :(
Posts: 1,205
Originally Posted by XStAnt
I don't know any FF program that gives elites a different choice of seats than a non-elite flyer. Airlines want to sell seats and if they have one available they'll sell it to anyone. Hasn't that always been the case?
The coach section from the exits forward on most planes is the E+ section, with 34" to 36" of legroom and can only be pre-reserved by elites or full fare coach travelers. This almost always leaves plenty of good seats unassigned up until the day of the flight for last minute business travelers and/or elites.There's a difference between selling a seat and getting a seat assignment. United will sell the plane full (or overbook), but will not allow non-elites to pre-reserve the premium seats in E+. Furthermore, only when E- becomes full do they put non-elites in E+ without charge, and only then the day of the flight.
Its amazing to me, in monitoring many of the different boards on here, how many flyertalkers do not fully understand United's E+ program. IF many Flyertalkers don't understand its benefits, then you can be sure John Q. Public has no clue.
Mar 22, 2006 | 8:37 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Programs: UA 1P MM
Posts: 123
Also UA does seat blocking of the middle seat in E+ for 1K members (I don't know if other levels qualify for this). I realize it is easy for the seat to be unblocked, but I have been grateful for having an empty seat next to me.
Mar 22, 2006 | 9:21 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC/SYD
Programs: Virtuoso Travel Advisor. FSPP, Ritz STARS, Rosewood Elite, Belmond BelliniClub. SPG PRO
Posts: 2,445
The only one who is truly Loony is the author for suggesting someone use Expedia. The lessening returns from a FFP are still better than the lack of any guarentee that something you purchase outright from them is actually valid.
Mar 23, 2006 | 10:27 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Programs: UA-2P, SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by XStAnt
I have to say his "experiment" regarding seat availability was not a valid test for elite benefits. I don't know any FF program that gives elites a different choice of seats than a non-elite flyer. Airlines want to sell seats and if they have one available they'll sell it to anyone. Hasn't that always been the case?
The other points about lack of upgrades, surcharges for awards, etc are valid points, but I felt his experiment about seat availability was odd.
The other points about lack of upgrades, surcharges for awards, etc are valid points, but I felt his experiment about seat availability was odd.
Actually, UA 1P members can reserve exit-row seating at time of booking and E+ seating is available only to 2P+ or those who have paid for annual access to E+
Mar 23, 2006 | 12:40 pm
#21
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: AA Glold, Marriot Silver, Skymiles, NWA, United, Free Spirit, Jet Blue
Posts: 5
What about the exit row?
Originally Posted by XStAnt
I have to say his "experiment" regarding seat availability was not a valid test for elite benefits. I don't know any FF program that gives elites a different choice of seats than a non-elite flyer. Airlines want to sell seats and if they have one available they'll sell it to anyone. Hasn't that always been the case?
The other points about lack of upgrades, surcharges for awards, etc are valid points, but I felt his experiment about seat availability was odd.
The other points about lack of upgrades, surcharges for awards, etc are valid points, but I felt his experiment about seat availability was odd.
The only reason (because I hardly got upgrades) I liked being Gold on AA was to get the exit row. I could usually count on getting a good seat there - and I'm talking the second row that does recline. Now that I lost my gold status, there's nothing I can do to get that exit seat other than beg at the gate. They won't give it to me over the phone.
Mar 24, 2006 | 6:14 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SJC and AUS
Programs: AA PLT, CO Silver, frequent WN patron
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by pinniped
To me, elite status is more important now than ever. It is the only way I will risk flying any of the legacy six. They have (intentionally?) made the non-elite travel experience as miserable as possible. At every step of the way from seat assignment to phone support to check-in to boarding, the airline goes out of its way to make sure you not only get poor treatment, but you know why you are being mistreated.
In marketing there's a rule that, what, 7 out of ten customers with a bad experience will complain to others about it, while 3 who were satisfied will talk. They should've paid attention to that one.
Mar 24, 2006 | 6:22 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SJC and AUS
Programs: AA PLT, CO Silver, frequent WN patron
Posts: 166
[QUOTE=exymer]
CO offers "better" seat selection to elites. Start the booking process on CO logged in as non-elite. When you get to the seat selector, click on it. If you're flying on most fares (perhaps anything other than Y) and you're not elite, you'll see a bunch of seats at the front of the plane that are blue. You won't be able to select those. Occasionally there are regular seats mixed in with the blues, but as a general rule the entire front section is designated "premium" and is unavailable to non-elites. You'll be stuck in the back with the riff raff.
Elites can pick any of the blues on any fare, as far as I can tell.
Originally Posted by XStAnt
I have to say his "experiment" regarding seat availability was not a valid test for elite benefits. I don't know any FF program that gives elites a different choice of seats than a non-elite flyer. Airlines want to sell seats and if they have one available they'll sell it to anyone. Hasn't that always been the case?
Elites can pick any of the blues on any fare, as far as I can tell.
Mar 24, 2006 | 7:13 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AA 3 MM, IHG Diamond
Posts: 4,590
Originally Posted by Darren
Reread your first sentence. Then reread it again. It's the New York Times. If the editor and/or writer were into good journalism, they wouldn't be working for the New York Times.
I agree with the consensus. It was a silly and pointless article.
I agree with the consensus. It was a silly and pointless article.
Absolutely agree. The New York Times is trash. It's written by all those looney latte-sipping, Volvo-driving, sushi-eating, Birkenstock-wearing liberals.
What I trust is the pure, sensible, unbiased writing of the Wall Street Journal. Peggy Noonan to me is a goddess!
Mar 24, 2006 | 8:12 pm
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
Programs: BAEC Gold, Delta Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, AMEX Platinum (US)
Posts: 18,543
Originally Posted by Randy Petersen
several things not said in this article:
while he bemoans the fact he got middle seats, he neglected to say if there were any other seats available. if no other seats available then it's hardly the fault of the program.
Mr. Fudd would have got stuck sucking his carry on or gate checking which Mr. Gold was able to board first and grab the overheads.
Mr. Fudd would likely have had a problem with security given his propensity to travel with a shotgun while Mr. Gold at certain airports would have gained access to the elite security lines.
As well, Mr. Gold didn't wait ti file the story to see if perhaps his upgrade status would have moved him forward given that he had 3 calendar days to get that chance, a chance that Mr. Fudd did not have. And Mr. Gold might have been able to upgrade his traveling companion while Mr. Fudd did have to sit with Sylvester.
And of course, when it came time to vacation Mr. Gold might have grabbed the last free seat available to Hawaii (better award availability for Golds) while Mr. Fudd was left home alone.
While "cute," it's the stuff left out (such as - was there really any aisle or window seats available to anyone) that make this story. Me? I would have known to book a different flight or at least check the alliance partners of Northwest and Delta to see which had less full flights to get the benefits I had earned.
while he bemoans the fact he got middle seats, he neglected to say if there were any other seats available. if no other seats available then it's hardly the fault of the program.
Mr. Fudd would have got stuck sucking his carry on or gate checking which Mr. Gold was able to board first and grab the overheads.
Mr. Fudd would likely have had a problem with security given his propensity to travel with a shotgun while Mr. Gold at certain airports would have gained access to the elite security lines.
As well, Mr. Gold didn't wait ti file the story to see if perhaps his upgrade status would have moved him forward given that he had 3 calendar days to get that chance, a chance that Mr. Fudd did not have. And Mr. Gold might have been able to upgrade his traveling companion while Mr. Fudd did have to sit with Sylvester.
And of course, when it came time to vacation Mr. Gold might have grabbed the last free seat available to Hawaii (better award availability for Golds) while Mr. Fudd was left home alone.
While "cute," it's the stuff left out (such as - was there really any aisle or window seats available to anyone) that make this story. Me? I would have known to book a different flight or at least check the alliance partners of Northwest and Delta to see which had less full flights to get the benefits I had earned.
Mar 24, 2006 | 9:54 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 36,868
Originally Posted by Darren
It's the New York Times. If the editor and/or writer were into good journalism, they wouldn't be working for the New York Times.
. Or perhaps the National Enquirer is more your cup of tea? Your statement makes it pretty clear that you wouldn't recognize good journalism if it bit you on the rear end.
Mar 25, 2006 | 9:31 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Circle City
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by vasantn
No, I guess they'd be working for Fox News . Or perhaps the National Enquirer is more your cup of tea? Your statement makes it pretty clear that you wouldn't recognize good journalism if it bit you on the rear end.
. Or perhaps the National Enquirer is more your cup of tea? Your statement makes it pretty clear that you wouldn't recognize good journalism if it bit you on the rear end.