The Guardsmen have no live ammo inside the weapon, because they don't want any kind of accidental discharge. They are carrying live ammunition on their person, and that Guardmen can go from a symbolic gesture to a rifleman in about 15 seconds.

I've been on 32 segments since 9/11 and, fortunately, have yet to be searched. This process does seem a bit familiar for AA, but I have not witnessed it on CO.

In London (boarding AC) they were randomly pulling people over as they started down the jetway. Also had what looked like airport employees checking passports and quizzing the passport holders.

andrew

Ah... the wonders of FlyerTalk. Avoided getting snagged at the gate with this tip today. Thanks... Now I must ponder the ethical ramifications of this action weighed with the benefit of having plenty of available bin space.

------------------
"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"

I've had 28 segments since the 11th, all on Delta.
DL has been making announcements and calling out a list of names to report to the special screening area. It really does look like a random process that comes up on the computer. At no time have I seen them just grab people out of line.
The thing that bothers me about DL's system is that they announce that the following people need to report for the special security search. If you are a bad guy who has slipped by up to that point, are you going to walk up with your bag? Instead of making the announcement, they should have the people preselected stopped at the door and then searched.

I have seen Delta purpose to profile some individuals for this process. Anyone looking middle-eastern especially. Since Delta announces the names before boarding,their "system" seems to have less complaints. At least on my flights.

[This message has been edited by jabez (edited 11-23-2001).]

My favorite thus far was when my associate was on the standby list for FC on NW DTW-SEA, they called his name up to the counter, he thought he was getting upgraded, but he was just going to be searched!

Frankly I'm tired of ranting about this to any of my friends who will listen. I just have to shake my head in wonder as they proceed to search the confused 87 year old lady.

No offense, but this is ridiculous. If you do not fit the profile then you do not fit the profile. Searching 8 yr old boy scouts is supposed to actually increase security?

These measures are not about security, they're about perception of security. And that is even worse and more dangerous in my view.

Regards.
-Bouncer-
PS: "If you're first, you're gonna get searched. Third in line, everythings fine."

>The Guardsmen have no live ammo inside the
>weapon, because they don't want any kind of
>accidental discharge. They are carrying
>live ammunition on their person, and that
>Guardmen can go from a symbolic gesture to
>a rifleman in about 15 seconds.

I was surprised that they did not have their guns in their hands ready to use. The gun is not loaded? What use are they??

British police officers do not normally carry guns yet they have patrolled airports there for years with H&K submachine guns loaded and ready to return fire.

And there I was thinking the sham could not get any worse!!

Well, this should at least go someways towards detaining those in the back of the bus who always try to sneak through First/Elite boarding.

I'm thinking this might also prove to be a way to deal with unruly pax at the gate. Call them up to the podium(not saying what for 'till they present themselves) then hand them over to the wand-and-body-cavity-search brigade and hold them there 'till they've got no choice but to shut up and board.

JD(Or maybe I'm just in a particularily evil mood today )

There's a difference because British airport security has to deal with the threat of an IRA attack, and the possibility of instant violence is higher. American airport security isn't at that level of alert yet.

The expectation is that if the Guardsmen needed to use its rifles, there would be time to load the weapons as they respond to the emergency.

Keep in mind the Guardsmen are not so much a real security response as a PR response.

Yes, the guard is indeed PR. It's a matter of showing the public that the government is "doing something" about airport security.

Security is largely a matter of perceptions.

But perceptions can have real deterrence value so they are not to be dismissed. Perceptions can also get people to fly instead of stay home.

I saw an AA frequent flyer have a VERY bad day recently FLL-LGA. The gent, very preppy-looking in his mid-40s, stormed to the front of the queue when the gate agent announced first-class boarding. He put up a terrible fuss when the flight attendant at the ticket reader ordered him behind the podium for a thorough search of his carry-ons and clothing. When he finally boarded the first class cabin (to take the last seat), all overhead luggage space was gone. He blew his stack again. With the help of a flight attendant, who rearranged a couple of overhead compartments, he finally stowed his roll-a-board. He ranted a bit more because he was too late for the pre-flight beverage service. Once airborne, he totally lost his cool when the flight attendant was unable to serve him his choice of entrees. After venting that he flies 70,000 miles a year on AA and was never going to use the carrier again, he worked over other passengers in first class until he found one who agreed to trade entrees. He was incredibly rude to the flight attendant for the rest of the flight.

I wandered up to Starbucks for the long line and was able to watch some departure screening activity today. It is a pparent that because of the "continuous rule," when the aircraft has been boarded and a "runner" appears," he is going to get searched. I witnessed a bit of a conflict therefore, between the agents who were conduicting the screening on two "runners" and the agents working the flight. The latter steamed while the former made sure no nail clippers were boarded. At one point the gate agent threatened to depart the flight because it was getting late which prompted an angry traveler to shout that he was a first class EXP and he had arrived in time and would be on board were it not for the screening.

All in all an ugly scene.

"Security is largely a matter of perceptions."

Baloney. You try telling that to a police officer handling a bomb dog. "Just.. LOOK like you're doing your job. Don't actually do it. The *perception* is what's important." You will get people killed by thinking this. You are not playing a game against untrained amateur opponents who are easily frightened. These guys simultaneously seized MULTIPLE different aircraft. They are pros, well trained and intelligent. You play amateur hour with them and they'll kill you a whole bunch more people.

"But perceptions can have real deterrence value so they are not to be dismissed. Perceptions can also get people to fly instead of stay home."

The former is not true, and the latter may be true up until the point that the former is proven not true. At which point ALL confidence is lost. You will not deter a motivated, trained, intelligent killer by banning nail clippers and searching grandmas and boy scouts and middle aged executives. You may amuse him, but you won't deter him.

And when they punch through the fake security and kill more people the public is going to think this:
"Gee, even with M-16's and National Guard and searching everyone umpteen times they can't keep planes from being blown up / hijacked."

What do you say to that? "Oh, well we'll up our *perception* of security and that will somehow frighten the professional (and suicidal) killers away!"

The VERY last thing this industry can afford is another attack of *any* kind. If they don't wise up and get serious about this they are going to suffer just that.

Regards,
-Bouncer-