Does anybody use a Travel Agent?
Nov 17, 2001 | 11:38 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA, Earth (PIT)
Programs: Airline/TSA Avoidance Platinum, Hotel Disloyalty Silver, Hertz 1.7*
Posts: 5,277
I do have to say that bit about voiding tickets saved my (well, okay, the company's) a** a few times in the past. If I did a lot more travel than I'm doing now or our company needed a lot more travel than it does, I would probably consider striking up another agent relationship. At times it can be quite useful to have a person to call, assuming the person knows their stuff. As it stands right now for me, though, I'd probably be waisting time for both of us with the small amount of traveling it would be.
One thing that's never been true to me though is that "agents are worthless". This is simply not the case. Many threads about travel agents, even a few years ago, would get many posts along those lines. Idiots who don't know any better, of course, would say things like that.
I really hate what happened with the agent-airline relationship, by the way. It's totally stupid. Lose-lose situation. The airlines cut commissions, essentially cutting pay to their main distribution channel (the percentage of tix booked by TAs used to be upwards of 90%). But all they did with this newfound cash is padded their bottom lines. So we pay the same fares, no longer get free service from TAs, and nothing is any better because the airlines still mismanaged their finances. And now public money is bailing them out. Doesn't seem right.
One thing that's never been true to me though is that "agents are worthless". This is simply not the case. Many threads about travel agents, even a few years ago, would get many posts along those lines. Idiots who don't know any better, of course, would say things like that.
I really hate what happened with the agent-airline relationship, by the way. It's totally stupid. Lose-lose situation. The airlines cut commissions, essentially cutting pay to their main distribution channel (the percentage of tix booked by TAs used to be upwards of 90%). But all they did with this newfound cash is padded their bottom lines. So we pay the same fares, no longer get free service from TAs, and nothing is any better because the airlines still mismanaged their finances. And now public money is bailing them out. Doesn't seem right.
Nov 18, 2001 | 2:14 am
#48
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Honolulu,HI, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3MM
Posts: 839
I use a TA for about 80% of my flights. She is wonderful and has saved me loads of money. She keeps track of my flights and if the fare drops, she calls me to make sure I get a credit voucher for the difference. She tells me when booking on-line would save me money, but usually gets better fares than I can find on-line. I can also use my credit vouchers and coupons with her. All the services are well worth the $20 fee that I pay her.
TF
TF
Nov 18, 2001 | 3:43 am
#49
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 462
married 2 miles
If you know what you want, some of the internet cruise specialists in Florida can save you money.
Essentially, a volume cruise agency gets the biggest overrides, that is, the highest commissions. They tend to start at 10% and go as high as 20%. Cruise lines also extend big discounts to agencies that buy blocks of cabins. The agency will share these savings with their customer. In many cases, high volume agencies sell cruises cheaper than an average agency can buy them.
It's kind of like buying from Dell. The first computer, people may want their hands held, the second, save some money.
Just another thought. Remember that agencies keep over a third of the "premiums" paid on travel insurance. These so called insurance policies basically protect you against buffalo stampedes
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
If you know what you want, some of the internet cruise specialists in Florida can save you money.
Essentially, a volume cruise agency gets the biggest overrides, that is, the highest commissions. They tend to start at 10% and go as high as 20%. Cruise lines also extend big discounts to agencies that buy blocks of cabins. The agency will share these savings with their customer. In many cases, high volume agencies sell cruises cheaper than an average agency can buy them.
It's kind of like buying from Dell. The first computer, people may want their hands held, the second, save some money.
Just another thought. Remember that agencies keep over a third of the "premiums" paid on travel insurance. These so called insurance policies basically protect you against buffalo stampedes
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
Nov 18, 2001 | 4:25 am
#50
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 462
For better or worse, airlines believe that travel agents are passive that they don't stimulate demand. People buy airline tickets for many reasons, but not because a travel agent talked them into it.
What airlines do believe is that leisure travelers are very price sensitive. Thus whatever the airlines can do to reduce the price of their ticket is positive including eliminating commissions.
So it puts agents like UAPremierExec in a bind. It's impossible to charge a fee of say $20 and provide all the services that he lists. If he charges more, the consumer rebels.
Basically, the airlines are saying to the leisure traveler, look we're selling a commodity, come to us or our alter ego, Orbitz, and get the best deal.
UAPremierExec extolls the virtues of DER which is a consolidator. Consolidators have a place but they are not a panacea. Too many agents say, well look, the published fare is $6,000 and I'm charging you only $2,000. The agent buys the ticket for $1,000, makes 100% on the deal and the customer "saves" $4,000. That's preposterous. The fact is, the consolidator ticket is nothing like a published fare. It's not endorseable, changes are non existent or extremely limited, it's nonrefundable.
The agent is using a little slight of hand here. Most consumers assume that a agent is a commissionaire -- that he's not Bulgari. They assume that the agent may be making 10% or so. Without telling the customer, the agent here has metamorphosed into a retailer making a 100% markup.
The moral is: If you buy a consolidator ticket, make sure you know what you are buying and ask the agent how much he is making.
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
What airlines do believe is that leisure travelers are very price sensitive. Thus whatever the airlines can do to reduce the price of their ticket is positive including eliminating commissions.
So it puts agents like UAPremierExec in a bind. It's impossible to charge a fee of say $20 and provide all the services that he lists. If he charges more, the consumer rebels.
Basically, the airlines are saying to the leisure traveler, look we're selling a commodity, come to us or our alter ego, Orbitz, and get the best deal.
UAPremierExec extolls the virtues of DER which is a consolidator. Consolidators have a place but they are not a panacea. Too many agents say, well look, the published fare is $6,000 and I'm charging you only $2,000. The agent buys the ticket for $1,000, makes 100% on the deal and the customer "saves" $4,000. That's preposterous. The fact is, the consolidator ticket is nothing like a published fare. It's not endorseable, changes are non existent or extremely limited, it's nonrefundable.
The agent is using a little slight of hand here. Most consumers assume that a agent is a commissionaire -- that he's not Bulgari. They assume that the agent may be making 10% or so. Without telling the customer, the agent here has metamorphosed into a retailer making a 100% markup.
The moral is: If you buy a consolidator ticket, make sure you know what you are buying and ask the agent how much he is making.
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
Nov 18, 2001 | 6:06 am
#51
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SPG Plat, HH Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,015
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CrazyOne:
The airlines cut commissions, essentially cutting pay to their main distribution channel (the percentage of tix booked by TAs used to be upwards of 90%). But all they did with this newfound cash is padded their bottom.</font>
The airlines cut commissions, essentially cutting pay to their main distribution channel (the percentage of tix booked by TAs used to be upwards of 90%). But all they did with this newfound cash is padded their bottom.</font>
To spur further discussion, below is an article giving reasons why an agent is beneficial.
http://www.diversionmag.com/ShowPage...999&Month=July
Nov 18, 2001 | 6:12 am
#52
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 462
Family flyer, there will always be agencies serving businesses. Business, especially large businesses, simply can't do their own travel.
Large agencies can help negotiate with the airlines, provide data to bench mark a company with other companies, provide survailance to ensure that company policies are obeyed and on and on. Agencies provide undeniable benefits to business.
It's the leisure traveler that may or may not need an agent.
Large agencies can help negotiate with the airlines, provide data to bench mark a company with other companies, provide survailance to ensure that company policies are obeyed and on and on. Agencies provide undeniable benefits to business.
It's the leisure traveler that may or may not need an agent.
Nov 18, 2001 | 10:12 am
#53
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 3A - most likey <> BKK <--> EZE; TACA 3A nobody, but GP million miler; Hilton Gold sometimes. Successfully divorced from CO PLAT.
Posts: 3,079
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by VicOsaki:
The moral is: If you buy a consolidator ticket, make sure you know what you are buying and ask the agent how much he is making. </font>
The moral is: If you buy a consolidator ticket, make sure you know what you are buying and ask the agent how much he is making. </font>
Last evening I had an interesting conversation with a local prominent florest here in town. He disclosed that the industry standard mark up is 5-6 times. Should I ask him to disclose how much he is making off of me every time I buy a dozen pretty red roses?
I think not. Rather, I buy because I've either compared the prices and like what is being offered, or because I feel that the sevice offered by a particular vender serves my needs best.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by VicOsaki:
Most consumers assume that a agent is a commissionaire.... They assume that the agent may be making 10% or so. Without telling the customer, the agent here has metamorphosed into a retailer making a 100% markup.</font>
Most consumers assume that a agent is a commissionaire.... They assume that the agent may be making 10% or so. Without telling the customer, the agent here has metamorphosed into a retailer making a 100% markup.</font>
The point is not how much money the agent makes - but rather how much money can h/she save you - and/or what additional service the agent can provide. Typically, consolidators do not sell directly to the public... just like a car manufacturer does not sell directly to the public - or if the consolidator does sell to the public at large - they do not sell a ticket to the public for the same fare that they sell it to an agency. The agency gets additional discounts due to volume.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by VicOsaki:
Too many agents say, well look, the published fare is $6,000 and I'm charging you only $2,000. The agent buys the ticket for $1,000, makes 100% on the deal and the customer "saves" $4,000. That's preposterous. </font>
Too many agents say, well look, the published fare is $6,000 and I'm charging you only $2,000. The agent buys the ticket for $1,000, makes 100% on the deal and the customer "saves" $4,000. That's preposterous. </font>
I fail to see how this is preposterous. First, assuming that the consumer is NOT able to buy the ticket directly himself for $ 1,000, and the airline wants $ 6,000, there is a savings here by buying thru the agent. ONLY the 'business school taught' key-stone standard is being applied here. If you don't like the price offered by the agent, shop around... probably someone else will mark it up less to a price that will be more to your liking.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by VicOsaki:
It's impossible to charge a fee of say $20 and provide all the services that he (UAPremierExec) lists.</font>
It's impossible to charge a fee of say $20 and provide all the services that he (UAPremierExec) lists.</font>
Tvl4free could go on and on about the benefits of using a well trained agent... and to find one that is even more specilized to Mileage Runs exclusively is, indeed, a rare find.
But talking about the the benefits a good agent with this group, that is clearly more interested in a 1,000 miles online booking bonus vs. using a great agent, is cause for a Tylenol moment... and like banging ones head up against a wall... so tvl4free will stop now.
[This message has been edited by tvl4free (edited 11-18-2001).]
Nov 18, 2001 | 10:30 am
#54
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,024
The airlines know admit that 911 showed the airlines can't operate w/o a healthy agency community. The airlines were not able to deal with the crisis in house. Without the agency community help in rebooking, they system would of gone through a melt down. Even now I get the "call back later" when I call the airlines.
If the proposal to lower commissions to zero and have the airlines charge a $30-$50 booking fee for all tickets you buy directly through the airlines go through, who are you going to trust? The airlines or your travel agent?
If the proposal to lower commissions to zero and have the airlines charge a $30-$50 booking fee for all tickets you buy directly through the airlines go through, who are you going to trust? The airlines or your travel agent?
Nov 18, 2001 | 11:08 am
#55
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Brattleboro, VT
Posts: 706
One reason I use a TA that hasn't been mentioned here, is to break down my segments for invoices. I see several clients in a multi segmented trip and want to bill each of them for their share of the trip. My TA can give me a fairly accurate breakdown of each clients share in the form of an invoice. I read somewhere on FT that there is an on-line site that can do this but I couldn't find it.
Also, And I'm not sure about the ethics of this, I fly alot to BDL-PHL_RIC return. If I leave on Sunday returning Friday, the price on US is around $800 RT. I have been doing a number of mileage runs staying over on Saturday, such as BDL-PHL-LAX-CHT-RIC-PHL-BDL at $320. MY TA will omit the LAX-CHT portion and just give me an invoice for BDL-PHL-RIC. He says he does this for a lot of clients. This service is more than worth the $15.00 fee.
Also, And I'm not sure about the ethics of this, I fly alot to BDL-PHL_RIC return. If I leave on Sunday returning Friday, the price on US is around $800 RT. I have been doing a number of mileage runs staying over on Saturday, such as BDL-PHL-LAX-CHT-RIC-PHL-BDL at $320. MY TA will omit the LAX-CHT portion and just give me an invoice for BDL-PHL-RIC. He says he does this for a lot of clients. This service is more than worth the $15.00 fee.
Nov 18, 2001 | 11:10 am
#56
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 0524:
I use a travel agent: my wife!</font>
I use a travel agent: my wife!</font>
A luxury most of us do not enjoy!
Does she split her commissions equally with you?
Nov 18, 2001 | 11:11 am
#57
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 462
Many consumers are unaware of the fact that consolidator tickets are marked up. They may not shop around because they believe that the agent is earning a standard commission. When you buy a regular ticket, the price is stated on its face, everyone knows that a small commission is included. When someone buys a consolidator ticket, the face value is anything the consoldiator and the agent wants. Hidden, and I mean hidden, in the price is profit limited only by what the agent thinks he can get. If the customer is aware of a 300% markup fine, but if he isn't dissuaded from his reasonably held idea that the agent is making a commission and not a large profit, then I think that is wrong.
The "key stone" standard that you mentioned is for retailers. The merchant who stocks inventory, finances it, risks the chance that it doesn't sell, that it spoils, and that it becomes obsolete takes big chances and deserves big profits. An agent is simply that. He take no such chances. He doesn't buy until he knows he has a buyer.
"If the proposal to lower commissions to zero and have the airlines charge a $30-$50 booking fee for all tickets you buy directly through the airlines go through"
This will never happened. The airlines won't tolerate being undersold, and the internet sellers have shown that the can do well enough with markups of less than $30-$50. No way the airlines will tie themselves to a price that their competitors can beat.
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
The "key stone" standard that you mentioned is for retailers. The merchant who stocks inventory, finances it, risks the chance that it doesn't sell, that it spoils, and that it becomes obsolete takes big chances and deserves big profits. An agent is simply that. He take no such chances. He doesn't buy until he knows he has a buyer.
"If the proposal to lower commissions to zero and have the airlines charge a $30-$50 booking fee for all tickets you buy directly through the airlines go through"
This will never happened. The airlines won't tolerate being undersold, and the internet sellers have shown that the can do well enough with markups of less than $30-$50. No way the airlines will tie themselves to a price that their competitors can beat.
[This message has been edited by VicOsaki (edited 11-18-2001).]
Nov 18, 2001 | 11:11 am
#58
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Brattleboro, VT
Posts: 706
One reason I use a TA that hasn't been mentioned here, is to break down my segments for invoices. I see several clients in a multi segmented trip and want to bill each of them for their share of the trip. My TA can give me a fairly accurate breakdown of each clients share in the form of an invoice. I read somewhere on FT that there is an on-line site that can do this but I couldn't find it.
Also, And I'm not sure about the ethics of this, I fly alot to BDL-PHL_RIC return. If I leave on Sunday returning Friday, the price on US is around $800 RT. I have been doing a number of mileage runs staying over on Saturday, such as BDL-PHL-LAX-CHT-RIC-PHL-BDL at $320. MY TA will omit the LAX-CHT portion and just give me an invoice for BDL-PHL-RIC. He says he does this for a lot of clients. This service is more than worth the $15.00 fee.
Also, And I'm not sure about the ethics of this, I fly alot to BDL-PHL_RIC return. If I leave on Sunday returning Friday, the price on US is around $800 RT. I have been doing a number of mileage runs staying over on Saturday, such as BDL-PHL-LAX-CHT-RIC-PHL-BDL at $320. MY TA will omit the LAX-CHT portion and just give me an invoice for BDL-PHL-RIC. He says he does this for a lot of clients. This service is more than worth the $15.00 fee.
Nov 18, 2001 | 11:16 am
#59
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,958
Wow.. glad I was able to show some of you what a "true" agent can offer.
In regards to my service fees, I've had to extend my customer relations EVEN more so than before.
If one of you buys a ticket from me, notice the bottom of the invoice has my cell phone number and my toll free # for home. This is my personal information... how many of your agents do that? Thankfully our office is powered by Worldspan and I have GO!, which basicly gives me a FULL GDS at home... ask B747-437B, I showed it to him and he LOVES it....
I feel that if someone is willing to pay me for a service, I *better* deliver or I won't be selling travel very long. I wish more agents would understand that.
But the cruise lines and tour operators do extend courtesies to us the airlines used to, including private inventory. You can try to book a hotel in Vegas, lets say the Bellagio, and they say they're sold out. Call me and I can get you a room, EASY! Trick, not really... it's called bulk space.. tour operators, etc. We have that available to us.
I don't care if my clients book online. Heck, sometimes I do it for them (sometimes I'll charge $25, sometimes I will just do it for free). Everything has it's value. Just look at the story about my dad... if he had booked it through me, I would have been able to help.. instead I had to spend hours on the phone with Grupo Taca and United when I could have easily signed onto Worldspan at 2AM and confirmed all of his flights or rebooked him.
++++++++++++
voiding a ticket: I can cancel a ticket without penalties if it's done before we send out our ARC reports.. it's the airline's version of the FDIC. We send ours out on Wednesday, so if you booked something M-F the week before, I can void your ticket and cancel your reservation for a service fee... even non refundable tickets.
Consolidators: DER is one of the most highly respected, well done consolidators. Most of their tickets can change the dates or cancel them for a $100 to $250 fee. If you are abroad when this happens, it will take some time for the agent to determine the change fee, but it's normally easy to do. DER has sold over $1.5 billion in travel since it's founding as is the leading consolidator for KLM/NW and United/Lufthansa in the US... talk about buying power, huh? With excepts of the British Airways contract, all 28 airlines that deal with DER allow you to earn frequent flyer miles and I believe 4 or 5 airlines allow for mileage upgrades... I know UA/LH, NW/KL doesn't :/ but I tell my clients ALL this beforehand!
Now in terms of my profit, I tell my clients that they can pay $3,500 for a full fare and enjoy those benefits or pay me $1,200 (normally a $300 to $600 mark up) and tell them the restrictions and penalties on the fare....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
However people book travel, I wish you the best... I have nothing against booking via the airline... but the moment you give me money for your trip, I'll protect you if you were a close friend....
-nate
[This message has been edited by UAPremierExec (edited 11-18-2001).]
In regards to my service fees, I've had to extend my customer relations EVEN more so than before.
If one of you buys a ticket from me, notice the bottom of the invoice has my cell phone number and my toll free # for home. This is my personal information... how many of your agents do that? Thankfully our office is powered by Worldspan and I have GO!, which basicly gives me a FULL GDS at home... ask B747-437B, I showed it to him and he LOVES it....
I feel that if someone is willing to pay me for a service, I *better* deliver or I won't be selling travel very long. I wish more agents would understand that.
But the cruise lines and tour operators do extend courtesies to us the airlines used to, including private inventory. You can try to book a hotel in Vegas, lets say the Bellagio, and they say they're sold out. Call me and I can get you a room, EASY! Trick, not really... it's called bulk space.. tour operators, etc. We have that available to us.
I don't care if my clients book online. Heck, sometimes I do it for them (sometimes I'll charge $25, sometimes I will just do it for free). Everything has it's value. Just look at the story about my dad... if he had booked it through me, I would have been able to help.. instead I had to spend hours on the phone with Grupo Taca and United when I could have easily signed onto Worldspan at 2AM and confirmed all of his flights or rebooked him.
++++++++++++
voiding a ticket: I can cancel a ticket without penalties if it's done before we send out our ARC reports.. it's the airline's version of the FDIC. We send ours out on Wednesday, so if you booked something M-F the week before, I can void your ticket and cancel your reservation for a service fee... even non refundable tickets.
Consolidators: DER is one of the most highly respected, well done consolidators. Most of their tickets can change the dates or cancel them for a $100 to $250 fee. If you are abroad when this happens, it will take some time for the agent to determine the change fee, but it's normally easy to do. DER has sold over $1.5 billion in travel since it's founding as is the leading consolidator for KLM/NW and United/Lufthansa in the US... talk about buying power, huh? With excepts of the British Airways contract, all 28 airlines that deal with DER allow you to earn frequent flyer miles and I believe 4 or 5 airlines allow for mileage upgrades... I know UA/LH, NW/KL doesn't :/ but I tell my clients ALL this beforehand!
Now in terms of my profit, I tell my clients that they can pay $3,500 for a full fare and enjoy those benefits or pay me $1,200 (normally a $300 to $600 mark up) and tell them the restrictions and penalties on the fare....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
However people book travel, I wish you the best... I have nothing against booking via the airline... but the moment you give me money for your trip, I'll protect you if you were a close friend....
-nate
[This message has been edited by UAPremierExec (edited 11-18-2001).]
Nov 18, 2001 | 1:10 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 462
Hi UAPremierExec,
I don't mean that you don't provide all the services that you outlined. I'm sure you do. What I should have said is that a good agent will provide kiss my toe services for select clients. A client must understand that it's not a one way street.
For example, I have a good agent. She provides me with what I want most, meaningful upgrades at the Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. In exchange, I give her all my business and talk her up among friends.
I don't mean that you don't provide all the services that you outlined. I'm sure you do. What I should have said is that a good agent will provide kiss my toe services for select clients. A client must understand that it's not a one way street.
For example, I have a good agent. She provides me with what I want most, meaningful upgrades at the Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. In exchange, I give her all my business and talk her up among friends.