Seat Kickers
 

Hello,

The infant thread reminded me of an annoying experience. It seems for a 6 week stretch from LAX to SFO, I always had a kid behind me and would kick my chair. Depending how bad, I would mention it to their parents. Some parents tried to do something, some would deny it. At some some point they gave up trying to stop their kids. Funny, eh?

On another note, who has the right to the back of you seat? I believe since anything affecting the back of your seat affects you, that it belongs to you. I remember a flight to Europe in coach where the woman behind me propped her legs up against the back of my seat (not a big deal), but she kept moving and moving trying to find a comfortable position, which kept me from sleeping. I got fed up and moved my seat forward causing her legs to slide off, and she screamed "sh*t!". So who owns the back of your seat?

Richard

I'll guess at a fair rule: you have a right not have your seatback bumped or moved as long as it is not reclined into someone else's knees or lap. I make a point of shifting my legs and knees around alot if the person in front of me is inconsiderate of my long legs.

I'd say your freedom ends where the other person's begins and vice-versa. If reclining your seat is going to impinge upon the person behind you, then you shouldn't recline. Similarly, if you're not reclined, then the person behind you should not be hitting/kicking/resting upon/bumping your seatback.

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Time..... is on my side.

But I think you should be able to recline and consider the back of the seat yours. If you were not allowed to recline, then the seats should not be reclinable.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I think we've all had the problem with seat kickers. I normally try to be nice at first and then resort to other tactics like you did or utilising the FA.

Another problem I have had a few times (mind you only in Economy), is where people behind tap you on the shoulder or ask the FA to ask me if I could put my seat back up. Some FA's are great and tell them straight that it is not possible, others look at me and somewhat expect me to put the seat back because the passenger behind is usually older than I am, but I don't care I've paid for my seat. Fair enough if it is dinner time but not at any other stage. One guy had the cheek to say that I should put my seat up because he had long legs and it was uncomfortable for him, not my problem you should have got a seat with better leg room or gone business class.

Whilst ever there is a recline button on my seat, I will fully recline my seat.

Soapbox rant over.

Cheers,
Rich

As a interessting observer, I watched last week on a flight from Nice to Munich that a guy came to his seat, unfortunately the seats were taken buy a couple with a toddler on the hips, who had now own seat (cheaper!). No big deal, they were in the wrong aile, the original seats of the couple was one row infront so he said keep your seats ill just take yours. The drawback was that the child started to kick seat and other things. I thought how would I react?

Always resist on your original seats.

Paul

Richard and Richard: Get used to having your seat bumped. You have no compassion for your fellow man http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

But in the situation originally described by Richard4009, the woman sitting behind him evidently became upset when he put his seat forward. So, if you will indulge me this extrapolation, wouldn't it stand to reason that he should then be forced to put his seat BACK? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Dhacker,

LOL. I think I have plenty of compassion for my fellow man and have moved seats before to accommodate people, etc. Just commenting on when people seem to forget that you have rights also. I was raised to respect other people's rights, not saying that anyone who disagrees with me does not respect other people's rights. I am just curious how people, like the guy who has long legs and therefore should be allowed to ask the person in front of him to recline the chair forward, feel ok about the things they do. That is all.

Kids are kids and are gonna do kid things. I know flying is difficult and can be miserable at times, but does that mean in order for you to be comfortable you must step on the rights of others? And is your comfort so much more important than another person's comfort? What little there is in coach.

I am thankful to be 1K now, but I know that will not keep me out of coach. Plus, this topic is just for conversation. Luckily, I have not had any seat kickers in a while. Hehe.

Richard

I hate it when the person in front of me reclines their seat in coach, therefore I do not recline my seat when I am in coach if someone is behind me ...

Something about the old golden rule ... do unto others ...

I firmly believe that you deserve to enjoy all of the space you pay for. You pay for the seat, the area in front of it where your feet go. And you pay for the sliver of room that encompasses the recline of the seat. If somebody in front of you reclines, you should recline your own seat -- then you have more room. If you sat in a row that doesn't recline for one of many reasons, then you are out of luck and will hopefully learn to insist on being seated in a reclining row in the future.

Of course, if somebody asks you politely to un-recline, you may choose to do so. I always have handy excuses for various requests, such as:

If they ask you to un-recline, tell them you have a back problem.

If they ask you for your window seat, tell them that you are claustrophobic and need the view, otherwise you'll freak out (they won't want that).

If they ask you to switch meals, tell them you have a special dietary/medical reason for eating that meal.

If they try to put stuff under the seat in front of you (i.e. where your feet go), tell them you have a knee problem and need to stretch out.

Again, if they ask nicely and it's not too much of an imposition, you can always grant your request -- but it's best to have your ammunition at the ready if you don't want to grant that request.

As for seat kickers, tell the parents that you would appreciate if they could ask their child to stop. If the kid persists, tell them that you've been flying since yesterday morning (having come from some far-flung place) and you are really trying to sleep. Then, they become the bad guy, not you.

Richard - Reclining your seat until it
causes me pain (or maybe economy class syndrome) is not a right.

Haven't you ever been stuck in the row in front of the exit row? Or the last row? These seats don't recline at all while the seats in front of them do. If reclining were a right, all seats would recline.

What you have a right to is a seat and transportation to your destination. By the same token, I have no right not to be reclined on. I just have a right to expect and hope for a little understanding from people.

For what it's worth, most FA's will ask someone to unrecline without hesitation, at least at meal time.

And if you are crushing my knees, you are going to feel it every time I move, it's just the physics of the situation. And I'm sure you wouldn't deny that I have a right to move my legs as much as I want.

[This message has been edited by dhacker (edited 01-08-2001).]

I never recline my seat during meal service.When I do recline my seat, I only recline it partially. One of my favorites is when the person seated behind me wants to get up and grabs onto the top of my seat and pulls it back as some sort of aid to stand up causing my head and neck to snap back and forth.

I like PremEx2000's ideas. . . sometimes a little white lie is the best way to handle any situation.

Thanks for sharing them with us . . . I'll have them at the ready when I fly next.

Regards,
-levi aka eastwest

It's even better when they manage to grab a chunk of hair at the same time. Ouch.

This thread has come around to my pet peeve: Recliners.

With the exception of MRTC AA planes and OAL exit row seats, it is impossible for normal size adults to get out of any seat (except the aisle seat) without grabing the reclined seats between them and the aisle. Don't blame me for a snapped neck; blame the airline.

That is just one of the prices to be paid for being a Recliner. If you put your head and seat in my lap, it is you who will have put your seat into my knees, and not vice-versa. If the movement of my long legs then makes you uncomfortable, that is your problem.

Some posters above say it is "their seat" - front and back. Do they also claim the tray table? And the seat pocket? You can bet the ranch that the table will be jumping when I am using it for paperwork.

Oh! And also you better have earplugs and wear a hat because my airvent will be open and full forward; and I will be rattling newspapers or magazines when reading.

I prefer the exit rows, not only for greater pitch but because the seats in the row in front do not recline. And I am consistent - like Burkey, I never recline in Coach!

Amen kappa! I only recline when there is no one behind me. That includes when someone in front of me insists on being rude.

So DHacker, is it rude for me to put a carry on underneath the seat in front of me (i.e. where my feet go)? Based on your logic, that space belongs to the person sitting above that space, right? If the sliver of space where my seat reclines back is not my space, why do the seats recline. I think your beef isn't with people who recline, it's with airlines that make seats that recline. Next time, don't get mad at the person in front of you who takes advantage of part of the price of their ticket (i.e. the right to recline), take it up with the airline that makes seats that recline. Or better yet, find an airline that doesn't have reclining seats and stick to it!

Well, I think it also has something to do with the particular flight -- I'm a lot less annoyed when the person in front of me goes
all the way back if it's a redeye (or a transoceanic overnight) than if it's a 2
hour midday flight (especially during
meals...).

Dan

I cant believe that I am telling this story here. But I really really really love it http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My boss was on red eye home after he reaped havoc on me for a week. There was a family behind him AND in front of him. 2 Adults and 3-4 kids.

Kid behind him kept kicking his seat. Mean boss politely asked parent to control kid. Kid didnt stop. Boss, now drunk, made a fuss. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Parent in row behind boss gave kid to parent in front of boss. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Kid kept turning around and kept making faces at mean drunk boss. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Plane hit air pocket and kid puked (can you say projectile vomiting??) all over boss. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

This dosent help in thread regarding seat kickers BUT it sure brings a smile to MY face http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have always considered it the right of the person infront of me to recline, by the same logic, it would also be right to recline as well. I haven't really thought of it any other way until now probably because nobody complains when I recline and since I do it politely (Ie. Pushing back slowly, unreclining at meal times or if I hear they are getting up)
In response to those who complain about recliners: I must say that if you aren't willing to pay, with either miles or cash, to fly upfront, then you should except the fact that economy is cramped with pax who have been given the choice whether or not to recline by the airline. Ofcourse your complaints about unruly/insensitive pax who recline during meals is totaly justified but I just cant seem to see the logic that since you need to use your tray table to work, the pax in front of you can't use his seat to rest.

So many responses...!

dhacker, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take the time to check out your physical make up and perform and anlysis of what would make you most comfortable! With all of the ruckus of boarding a flight, I infrequently pay attention to the person next to me let alone he who is seated behind me. Don't hold it against me and dent my seatback if I recline whilst in front of you.

Richard and Richard, I agree with both of you in moderation but you both do sound a bit spoiled or selfish. I would politely ask the parent to try to have the child quick kicking my seat. I would NEVER kick or bump someone else's because they push the button and lean back...that is their right as far as I'm concerned. Just like I don't get out of my seat and close the window shade during a movie if someone does not do so on their own accord. It's their option.

Other things I do not do:

1. close other people's vents even when I am cold or don't want air blowing on me.
2. force people to eat the in flight food even though I firmly believe in the value of three square meals each day.
3. lambast people for not covering their mouths when they sneeze or cough on a flight.
4. pull out my mr. microphone and criticize people for putting the little pretzel wrappers in the seatback pockets.
5. put my carryon under the seat I am sitting in (have had that happen and I hate it).
6. inform the flight crew that their carryon luggage should be slightly smaller than a full grown elephant.
7. inform the ticket agent that it is in fact true what they say about how frowning does take more muscles than smiling.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I disagree strongly! This a pet peeve too. I am very average in size and I never use a seatback in front but always use armrests to support me as I leave a seat. If on the interior, the aisle is stepping out anyway. It is possible if you want to. For most people it's just not in their mind to try hard to avoid disturbing the person in front..reclined or not. They seek the most convenient means of exit from the aisle, not the most considerate.

I also think you are entitled to use the facilities you are renting during the flight, including the recline. If the person behind has a credible and visible difficulty with the amount of recline, the recliner has the option if requested to unrecline partially or wholey in order to to help.

If one has a very unusual height situation, he should book and plan ahead, buy biz or seek a flight with exit row available instead of imposing a constraint on another pax. Cuz that's what he's doing...imposing his constraint on another uninvolved pax.

Not sure I follow your argument -- you could have flown business class as well and reclined all you want. At least you were able to recline the seat at first (physically speaking). Other than on AA, if the person in front of me begins to recline, the process ends immediately due to the length of my legs; I'm tall but not that tall and I don't slump in my seat. The fact is that most airlines choose to place the seats very close together, and I'm not going sit in the brace position, or twist my legs sideways, just so the person in front of me can recline.

Reclining my seat doesn't help the person in front of me recline (besides the fact that it starts the domino effect). Reclining causes the top part of the seat to move back, but the bottom cushion, where my legs are located, is in the same place. My head is a few inches further back, but that's it. It's not all that more comfortable.

I've had my head snapped by the person behind getting up...as I recall I was on Northworst and I got one of those seats that recline by themselves. I was constantly pulling the seat forward. Then bozo behind me decides to get up and use the lav. Boom, he pulls me back into the fully reclined postion. I ignored it the first time. By the time the flight was over, he had done it three or four times. I was ready to go ballistic.
two:
Getting banged in the head with someones oversized luggage being lifted into the overhead compartment.
three:
Exiting the plane and someone decides to put on a jacket, then get something out of their luggage, then comb their hair, etc. etc. while blocking the aisle.
four:
Window seat passenger staking claim to BOTH armrests. Give some sympathy to the poor guy in the middle.
five:
The guy that has to cram that last monster bag into the compartment that your luggage is in, when their is room elsewhere.

I don't like seat kickers. usually parents will stop the child if approached nicely. If not then sometimes you endure for the flight.

I don't like inconsiderate recliners or arm rest hoggers either. We all have to be considerate of others on the airplane. It is not my seat and I can do anything I want, nor is it wrong at certain times to recline some or all the way. We have to live together for a few hours or so on the plane.

I was coming through IAH from LAS to DFW. It was a CO redeye into IAH and then a early morning short hop up to DFW. The aisle next to me leans way back on the guy behind him for the whole flight. While deplaning the guy in the back starts telling the recliner what he thinks of him. Looked like two guys in coats and ties were about to come to blows. Crazy and funny at the same time.

Had a kid really kicking the back of my sesat. I was able to reach around and grab his foot. The parents then decided that the kicking should stop, and it did.

Here is another perspective - I need to recline the seat to get the tray table to lay flat! So, my seat is reclined during meals only...

I think taking your two comments out of context pretty much sums up your attitude: one of an extremely selfish person.

If I'm not in an exit row, then usually a recliner would crush my knees, even if I sit straight up. In such a case, I'll ask the person to please not recline or I'll try to sit elsewhere if there's a seat available. Failing that....

Should you be seated in front of me and insist on causing me physical harm by reclining despite polite requests that you not do so, I can guarantee you the most miserable flight experience you've ever had.



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Time..... is on my side.

Spiff--I usually spread my legs and that lets my knees avoid being hit by the recliner.

My last International trip in coach was in Sept of 2000. On the return leg from TPE - SFO (Taipei, Taiwan to San Fran) I was in row 68c in a 474. The guy in from of me refused to unrecline his seat during meal service. The FA asked him when serving meals. When the FA came around again, I asked the FA to ask the guy again, and he flatly refused and said XXCS!@# NO! I nicely thanked the man from behind in the most sweet and courteous voice I possess. Nothing worked. This is a very LONG flight, and sadly very painful. I am about 6'1", and most of my height is in my legs. It was rude of him!

I always make it a point not to recline my seat during meals. That means if the person in back of me is eating, even if I am done, the seat stays up! I will then only recline after asking the person behind if he would not mind. I know this is not necessary, but it is polite. At times I am told no problem, and once I remember I was asked if I could not go all the way back. Each time I have found people to be very accomodating and very appreciative.

Just a thought! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I guess I am going to side w/ dhacker on the issue here and it is not b/c I too am a member of the long leg club.

I don't like it when people in front of me recline and I will never recline. Plain, simple and end of sentence.

I do like however watching the battle of the reclining seat and chexfan's knees. The knees are so far undefeated.

I think I would like to see most of you in a steel cage match on the WWF. The winner gets an extra dose of Ritalin. The few posters in this thread who are not included... you know who you are. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At 6'3" and 220 lb. I overfill a coach seat (when I can't get an upgrade). However, I seldom have a problem with recliners. Seems that when I am seated in some of those short pitch coach seats, the distance between my back and my knees is such that the person trying to recline finds that their seat doesn't go back. After trying for a few times, they generally give up and I can relax my legs under the seat without having a seat back in my face. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm going to post this here, though its relevance might be questionable. I don't have children so I can't speak to all of these issues with authority. But I recently saw something on a flight that made me more mad than a seat kicker, a crying baby or a drunken passenger.

I was on a commuter NWA flight from Minneapolis to Lincoln a few days before Christmas. In the seat in front of me was a couple and their three year old (a guess on age). The child was very interested in the lights and vents and was playing with them above both their seats and the seats in front of them. The parents attempted to control the child, but he was obviously pent up and full of energy. The father grabbed the child and tried to hold him down physically. As you can imagine, this made the child squirm more. The father kept telling the child that he couldn't disrupt the other passengers; this sounded good to me as the flight was at midnight due to delays. The child did not want to be restrained, the father did not want to release him. The result: The father began spanking the child. When this produced crying that would not stop, the spanking turned to slaps across the face that hurt ME just from watching. I wanted to grab this guy and ..... slap him a little bit. I went from being ticked at the kid to fuming at the father.

The reason for this story? Perhaps the things that annoy us to some degree annoy and embarass the parents to a greater degree. And, just perhaps, there is a tradeoff whereby the other alternative is far worse than the action taken. Would you rather have a child kicking your seat or crying? Both bad, but perhaps that is the choice a parent is faced with. We'll never know. Compassion and an attempt at understanding would be key.

As business travelers, we often think that the skies are all ours and everyone should cater to us as business travelers. If you doubt that, you've not read more than a dozen posts in this BB. Reality is that we share the skies with leisure travelers, people traveling for the first time and people traveling under dire circumstances. My philosophy is make the best of it, suck it up and get on with your life.

The soap box is now available for rebuttal.

I try to make it my policy to never recline the seat during daylight short haul (upto 3 hours) flights since I am a believer in "what goes around comes around". Despite travelling mostly in 1st class bulkheads on domestic AA flights I still don't recline since I wouldn't want anyone else to recline into my lap on a daytime flight. I just try to put myself in the situation of the person in the seat behind me and think how I would feel if it was me back there. Since the pitch is tight especially on MD-80's then it would be almost like pinning the person behind me to his/her seat which in turn will cause frustration and retaliation.

On long haul trans-oceanic flights I do recline but if not asleep I try to lift my seat if the person behind me gets up to go for a walk. In return I have noticed that I never get "kneed" in my back no matter how tall or large the traveller behind me might be.

During meals I prefer to sit upright not that it makes any difference since front cabin has in-armrest tray tables but I still believe it is polite to sit up rather than lay down while dining. It's probably more appetising for the person behind me to look at the back of my seat rather than enjoying the full view of my messy hair while having his/her meal. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm gonna go out on a limb here but.....when I was a child, we would often take trips to Montreal or New Brunswick (the Canadian province) from Connecticut. Well, you're looking at a drive anywhere from five to 12 hours. How did my parents keep their sanity and prevent my brother and I from killing each other? Dramamine..... My mom was nurse so she really did not want us to get car sick, or so she said.

(If anyone here has ever taken Dramamine you'll know that it prevents motion sickness because you're so knocked out).

Yes, that sometimes works, unless you're in the window seat and/or the space next to you is taken by another passenger. The aisle sometimes works, but there you are usually jolted by the other pax and the ubiquitous service tolleys. I long (pun!) for the day when the seats do not recline in coach.



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Time..... is on my side.

"Let's get ready.... to RUMBLE!!!!" Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!!!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



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Time..... is on my side.

There are several ways around this. Being an elite level member, I have always found airlines accomodating to blocking 1 seat next to me- whether beside, in front or behind. You may wish to request this. You can't ward off anyone around your seat, but you can request a less crowded seat in the plane to get in more work or rest.

If kids kicking the back of your seat bother you, take the last row in the plane. If you don't like the possibility of doing dental work on the guy in front of you, take the first row if possible.

Here's a real kicker (no pun intended, ha ha)
Airlines will reserve the first part of their coach section for families and others requiring special assistance. Keep this in mind when you think that just because you are the front of the plane, you are with other elites and among the first to deplane after landing.

Now here's a question I have, I use upgrades to get away from these problems of space but find kids flying in First class who are twice as rambunctious. They are chase each other in the hall and climb over the seats. And they are smart too because they will do this quickly while the FA is going back towards the galley. Any suggestions?