I have very long legs and when I am relegated to coach it is very painful to have someone recline into me.

A few suggestions that have been made are not always possible. It was suggested if you have long legs just use miles/certs whatever and upgrade. There are only so many upgrade seats available so this is not always possible. It was also suggested to have the seats around you blocked. This only works when reserving. Once it is in the gates hands they can issue boarding passes for any seat they want. Some gate agents may try and issue blocked seats last but does not always work.

So to all of you who say they'll recline no matter what, be prepared to have my knees putting dents in your back and moving around. I have as much right to be as comfortable as coach allows as you do. It is not my fault I have long legs.

worldbanker, isn't this why the overhead bins to seat ratio is so much more generous in first class! Kidding only folks.

I have to disagree with the notion that a lot of airlines put families with kids in the front part of the coach section. I have read several articles lately that airlines are putting families in the way-back.

I don't think its about "your rights" at all. This is not some constitutional issue. People here have said that I paid for it and therefore I am going to take it ALL. For those people, your beef is not with other passengers (they're just as bad off as you are) but rather with the airline(s) that created the situation.

Wouldn't a better policy/philosophy be: Be Polite. That means recline or don't but if someone asks something reasonable (i.e. put chair up during meal service) try to accomodate the request. That doesn't mean bend over backwards such as keeping your seat up 100% of the time during a night flight.

I should also mention that sometimes you can use your seat as a tatic. For example, I usually keep my seat upright. However, I remember one time where some kept hooking and unhooking the tray table and just generally was pushing on my seat. Well, I reached the limit of my tollerance so I just suddenly and quickly reclined me seat. The person was none too pleased but getting the (empty) tray table into his lap sure gave him the message.

My other norm is that until "bed time" or as soon as the guy in front of me reclines (like a domino effect), I won't recline (above example exlcuded).

One of my pet peeves is the people who use my seat as a handle. Try holding on to the overhead bin if you need some physical contact. Leave me alone!

I had a similar thought. It seems to me there have been a lot of posts regarding peoples "rights" to armrest, space, extra seats, etc. In essence, the questions all boil down to courtesy and/or the lack thereof. The answers to most of these questions should have been learned long ago. The only real insight that might be garnered here is how to diplomatically deal with discourteous passengers. I sincerely hope (no accusations here) people are not looking for a justification for their own rudeness.

Another comment on the use of the term "rights". In this age of self-entitlement, the term is quite often over used. Rights are not something that are owned. They are something that is loaned or given to you. A driving instructor once explained to me the seeming semantic, but major difference. Your inalienable rights were given by God, your right-of-way driving is yielded to you by other drivers (hopefully http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif), and the right of the government is derived from the consent of the governed.

<Stepping off moral and intellectual high horse> In practice, I seldom recline my seat because I've found it increase my back pain after the flight. If I do, I check with the person behind me. Occasionally, I do ask the person in front of me to put their seat up a little, or while I eat. If all else fails and the person insists on putting their head in my lap, "my" air vent usually goes on full blast directed at their head and I come down with a mysterious cough. Passive aggressive and petty as it may be, I at least get some sense of revenge. The only thing that really upsets me is when people recline their seat all the way, then lean forward to eat, read, etc.

Anyway, happy trails (vapor?) to you, and hopefully we all can maintain a little civility despite our uncomfortable surroundings in the air.

Freefaller12k

Yes!

It's time to be grateful to AA. Chexfan, dhacker and Beckles are the posts that run close to my way of operating.

Would not mind trying the air blower strategy in the future.

Didn't think my response would provoke so many responses! We have a very mixed reaction to recliners.

Maybe I am somewhat selfish, but then why is there the recline option. To be quite honest I travel in Business Class most of the time, so that I can get more leg room. I'm not he tallest of people but I just like my space.

I was considering in the future (When flying economy) to buy another seat next to me at a childs price and using so that I have more room to sleep or be comfortable, that way I probably wouldn't have to recline my seat as much. ANyone else ever tried this approach?

Thanks,
Richard

Richard,

Alas, many of us cannot afford to purchase a second seat even at a discount, much less a business class seat. It's great to obtain those upgrades, but paid C or F is not an option for leisure travel for me and very rarely afforded to me for business travel.

------------------
Time..... is on my side.

How do you intend on carrying through with this child ticket if you have no child with you? The gate agents will more than likely treat that "child" as a no show and assign the seat to someone else. Unless you want to improvise and use an inflatable doll... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So how does it work for large passengers that need 2 seats, and as such have paid for 2 seats?

Have to agree with the person who talks about the over usage of the word 'rights.' One of my biggest pet peeves when I hear that word thrown around all over the place, then see the HUGE amounts of money those rights cost me out of my paycheck. Off subject I know, but don't confuse rights with desires and wants.

The airlines will often sell that person a second seat at 50% off. That person can use the seat as they see fit (for themselves phyiscally, mentally, or for something like a large musical instrument).



------------------
Time..... is on my side.

Seat pitch / Seat width -- similar arguments continue to abound and astound... freefaller12k -- I couldn't agree more with your sentiments! Glad to be on the board with you.


-------------------------------

For other interesting comments regarding space, try these threads as well:

-------------------------------

For more on the reclining issue, try --
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/000120.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/002094.html

-------------------------------

For seat width issues, try --
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/001849.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/000244.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/002325.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/001410.html

-------------------------------

I ALWAYS look behind me before reclining a coach seat and if the persons knees are close then I don't do it because being 6'2" I know I don't like it at all!!!

Barry

The recline is an option because there might not be anyone in the seat behind you (or a baby, etc.) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dear Dingo,

I read all your entries with great interest. I wish that the airlines would bring this nonsesne to a stop in a cramped Economy cabin and block the recliners once and for all. I am certain that it is a trigger for more air rage than anything else. I try to keep within my space and not inconvenience others. I had a Swiss airline official upgraded behind us on 12 Jan out of HNL in F. He must have pulled my seat back five times before we wvwn left the gate. I knew of his status because I speak German and I heard him speaking in the Admiral Club. A well placed word stopped that, thank heavens. I won't tell you what was said as I am rather asjamed that I was not as courteous as I should have been. Equally, as posted elsewhere, a Pan Am FA on positioning LHR-CDG on a packed L10111 with 5 piece of hand luggage had stuffed one under the seat in front of me. She told me I could put my feet on it. I told her to remove it. She refused. I called a British Airways Cabin Attendant. She put Pan AM straight. It was a wonderful sight. The Worlds Favourite Airline telling the Worlds Rudest Airline a few home truths about behaving as a passenger! Ilove the line about the muscles used for smiling or frowning. Is it true?

This is why a signed up for this sight! To see inside people heads on issues.I am miserable onf every flight because my legs simply won't fit in front of me even in the exit row. At 6'8" I had a guy in bulkhead aisle seat try to fully recline on a flight. I tapped his shoulder and politely said, " it won't work. why don't we switch seats and we'll both be happier". His response was,"I'm Platinum and couldn't upgrade to first class and am tired so to @#** with you". My legs then finally made it into bulkhead through his back for the two hour flight. Upon landing he turned abruptly to confront me and nearly passed out when he saw my head in the ceiling and his face in my navel. I have never reclined a seat and always consider others since my whole life I have been an obstruction to people. At movies, on theme park rides, planes etc.It is mind boggling that normal size people think they should be able to lie down. I do belive this is how road rage got them to the airport and will eventually turn into air rage for them, unless someone takes them out when they get off their next flight.Food for thought from the gentle giant!

Big-Dee you restore faith in humanity. People divide into two categories, those who think of themselves,and those who think of others. It's easy to see that you belong to the latter.

When in coach I will not recline my seat if there is a pasenger behind me unlessthe person in pront of me reclines their seat.

This is because those stupid wires they out up to hold up those magzines dig into my knees unless I can recline my seat and slouch into a position where all circulation is not being cut off from the lowerhalf of my legs due to someone reclining.
I simply can't position my legs any other way when the seta is reclined. Sorry. I am too tall, and at 6'2", I am not that tall.

I'm 6'2, and I, like some others, try to be courteous by never reclining my seat all the way back, looking behind me to see who is sitting behind me, and putting my seat fully upright during meal service. (I'm the kind of guy who insists on getting to a movie theater early just to get a seat so whoever decides to sit behind me has a choice not to!), but on long haul daylight flights, it is annoying when the person in front of me decides to recline his/her seat back all the way when it really isn't necessary, but yes, I have figured out a way to strategically place my knees in a position where the person cannot recline. The person then gives up and things the seat simply doesn't work, then I go back and put my legs under the seat and stretch out, but always closely keeping alert if he/she tries it again. It works every time, and I know some might find it mean, but otherwise my legs would be spread in a manner as to impede on my neighbors space so I guess it's a trade off...

i don't much recline the seat, as i'm a little thing and don't need it. however, my seat-kicking policy is pretty firm:

young kids (2-4 or so) suck up and deal. any attempt to deal with this only creates more problems.

older kids (4-12 or so) try to deal with it politely without dragging the FA into it. generally, i revert to "suck up and deal."

One you're over 12, if you kicka my seat, i ask politely that you stop. Twice. After that, i'm all over the FA to put miscreants in their place.

i just hate the people who think it's amusing in some strange way to kick seats. it's disrespectful to the person in front of you. it's disrespectful to the airline (cracking the back of a seatback is not as cheap a fix as you might think), and it's just noxious.

(I dupilcate-posted. Kick me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

[This message has been edited by gwendolynaoife (edited 02-10-2001).]

PAUL PALMER of course it takes more muscles to frown than smile. That's why I usually do it; my schedule doesn't allow for any other kind of work out so I walk around all day looking like the opposite of those 70's smiley faces.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Let me give my opinion on this matter.

I believe in nice things happen to nice people. I also believe in (and this is probably a negative side of me but I have difficulty changing it): I deserve respect and politeness, I will not tolerate rude people.

With this being said I have not yet had any unpleasant incident with any rude person in the air. When some elite member comes in from coach before take-off and places his large carry-on in my business overhead bin, he first put it in, then looks at me and shows that he does not think that I (19) should be in business, then he asks if I need the overhead bin. The man is wrong and maybe a little rude - but since I don't have carry-on it isn't worth bothering, wrong as he may be. I let him. Who cares.

Another example: having just boarded a terribly hot flight (temperature - not attractive) I look at the people boarding. A dangerous-looking hillbilly enters. My mind goes: please, let him sit ANYWHERE but in the seat next to me. Of course he has the seat in the middle next to me. He has his girlfriend with him. I think, Oh no. He looks out the window at take-off - he keeps looking (at me I think). Then he asks could I keep the window open a little while longer, it is his first flight. The sun is shining in at me, it is very uncomfortable. I say Yes. Five minutes later he has watched enough. I close the window, he is happy, I am happy - I have a pleasent flight.

Generally: If I see the person in front of me is going to recline, I block with my knees so they cannot do so. It usually works. I think this is okay since it is not feeling that good when I have the frontseat on my knees - probably unhealthy too. If I can, I do recline, but I do it slowly, and of course never at melas: it's difficult to eat as it is in coach already, the last thing I need is even more space between me and the food.

HOWEVER: Usually I go to sleep as fast as I can. The only way I can really endure flying coach. I can sleep even if not reclined but nicer of reclined of course. If sleeping is difficult: I take some pills. I normally don't take pills but since being awake in coach for more than 1-2 hours is pure torture to me, I really don't mind.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Very nice! You made his first flight an enjoyable experience. What did you give up? Five minutes of comfort. An excellent trade.

I linked to this post from one in the Delta forum - maybe a little late in the game to comment, but I didn't see this mentioned before:

We have taken our son on many flights, and during a few of those we have put him into his carseat for safety. The problem is, his legs stick out of the car seat and are directly against the seat in front of him. No-where to move. So, we apologize in advance to the person in front, and try to minimize his movement, but kids aren't always trying to kick the seat when they bug you, sometimes they just can't help it.

Children are very flexible. If you duct tape thier ankles to thier ears, they tend to stop..... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Why do you put him in the car seat? If he's old enough to be able to kick with some force, he's probably old enough to be able to sit in the seat with just the lap belt.

Given a plane crash (very unlikely to begin with), it's unlikely that it would be bad enough to cause injury with only the lap belt, but not bad enough to cause injury with a car seat.

The extra trouble to drag the car seat through the airport, on the plane, etc., isn't worth it. After all, staying at home (with padded walls) is safer, so why not just do that instead? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

When my son was getting a little too big to hold on a lap, I bought him his own ticket (50% off until age 2 for domestic flights), and used the lap belt. It worked just fine.

My wife got an inconsiderate parent/child combo back a few years ago on a flight from LAX-ATL. The young mother had a child about the same age as my two year old. My 6 year old and I had put up with him for quite some time. When he started throwing food over the seat towards us, I started to get irritated. My wife, in the seat ahead of me, realized what was happening and traded with me. The mother then stood the kid up on her legs, allowing him to bounce backwards onto the back of my 6 yr old's seat, repeatedly. My wife (she's so slick) timed the motions of the kid behind him and at the right moment, hit the recline button to bring my son's seat to the full upright position (it was only slightly reclined). This was enough to send the kid heading to the floor. He wasn't hurt but it stopped the ridiculous behavior. Oh, BTW, the older sister behind me had also insisted on kicking my seat back for some time, too.

So my opionion is...
The back of the seat, being part of the structure supporting your body is YOURS! Same for the lower portion, too. The tray table is not part of your seat.

As most of you know, the rules are simple. Don't do anything to the back of the seat in front of you that you wouldn't want someone to do to yours. Look before you recline and don't recline just to recline.

Remember, we're all in this (compartment) together. Show some respect and manners and air travel would be so much easier to endure.

Oh, I missed this one the first time around, and it's probably a good thing. I would have been right in there with those getting ugly and it would have gotten uglier.

I'm 6'5" and I have had my share of reclining problems.

Normally, I do try to avoid them by upgrading or booking the second exit row (since the first exit row can't recline), but that's not always possible.

One time I was stuck in a middle seat in the middle section of a DC-10 and the person in front of me reclined rapidly with no warning, but probably never reclined her seat again after I actually screamed out in pain by having my knee smashed by the bottom of the tray table. It really did hurt. I also totally smashed the palm pilot in my carryon bag because my foot had to shoot forward so quickly to free my knee.

It's just not always an option to recline. The seats have a recline because there are redeyes and light load flights, but you have to give up some things when flights are full. Assuming we get to return to 2-carryon bags each, you'll notice that the plane can't possibly hold 2 pieces of carryon for every passenger so you don't have an absolute right to that either.

I never recline my seat more than a few degrees if there is someone behind me. In fact, on long duration flights, I do make sure that I only choose flights on which I can be assured of an upgrade to business, and I always book a row with a bulkhead behind me so that my recline doesn't affect anyone else. Even with United's additional space in business, my flight would be ruined if I had to worry about making the person behind me uncomfortable because of my recline.

The golden rule is absolutely the one to follow here. Besides, unless we're talking sleep, it actually makes the ride more uncomfortable, so why is it so important to you recliners?

So you could have placed your legs under the seat in front of you the whole time, but you choose not to, not because of the length of your legs, but because you don't want the back of the seat in front of you leaned back. I've always thought this to be the heart of it.

Don't like reclining seats? Complain to the airline. They install them.

Simple courtesy seems to resolve this problem in most cases: just ask the person in front of you not to recline if there's a good reason not to. However, sometimes the person in front of THAT person reclines and it's the only way for them to get some room. Reclining seats make getting up to go to the head difficult depending on the amount of recline, and when they're asleep, gymnastics are sometimes required to get by them from the window seat without crushing the sleeper next to you.

Courtesy usually works, and if moving to another seat is not possible, remember that an attitude of 'live and let live' is preferable to getting steamed over something as relatively insignificant as this issue. And maybe that person in front of you has a back problem (a large percentage of people do) and may need that recline to ease or avoid pain.

In the wake of 9/11, I take subjects like these with a healthy dose of reality. If this subject deserves 3 pages at a time when much more pressing issues are out there, then perhaps it's a good sign we're getting back to normal. Now, anyone up for discussing if the toilet paper should go over or under?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I'm sorry -- but I can't spare a square; I don't have a square to spare.

I'm at least 6' 4", depending on whether I'm wearing boots. I always ask the person behind me prior to reclining. At least it gives them fair warning that something is about to happen.

Now that 'moving around the cabin' is restricted, I'm worrying about the health of my legs, but that's another subject all together.

Parents who can't control their children in an airplane are in for a very bumpy ride as the children become teens.

Seinfeld reruns!!! We ARE back to normal!

For those not of the 'live and let live' attitude to inconsiderate shorthaul seat recliners, I have witnessed the perfect retaliaton:

THE SNEEZE!!!

If one is looking for an effective way to remind someone that they have just stuffed the back of their head into the space six inches from your nose, there is nothing like a blast of dewdrops onto their pate to make them think a bit more carefully. Works particularly well for baldies! It certainly made the seat shoot back upright here anyway.

For the record, I was a(n) (amused) witness here, not the avenger.

I also have been annoyed by the person who put their seat back as soon as the flight begins. On one recent flight I asked the person ahead of me if he would just put his seat up for the meal. He smiled and said "sure". As I finished my meal I let him know I was through and it would not bother me if he put the seat back. A little tact and cooperation go a long way.

My husband once grabbed a child's foot after being kicked. The child's parents noticed and the kicking stopped.

I must say I am not on the score a nice person. I have to fly LHR-NYC on a regular basis in coach. I always have the exit row at the front of coach, and on the daylight trip I dont recline as I tend to work. On the night flight back though I tend to take a good swig of NiQil along with a alrge glass of Jamesons Whiskey. As soon as the seatbelt sign goes off, I recline the seat and pass out.

Someone decided to wake me to say they wanted to eat. Now what do you do, I need sleep, you want food. I figure you can work when hungry but not asleep. I urged them ti take it up with the airline as I did not fit the seats and make them so cramped.

Sorry