How Safe is Checked Baggage?
Oct 9, 2001 | 2:21 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Florida
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How Safe is Checked Baggage?
The other night a security expert on a television talk show said that you can have 50 air marshalls on a plane and the most secure cockpit door imaginable but it wouldn't do any good as long as a terrorist, who doesn't care if he dies, puts a bomb in his checked luggage.
The precautions that El Al takes regarding every bag that is checked would work but apparently we are only doing this at the newly reopened Washington Airport.
Does anyone have any additional info regarding this?
The precautions that El Al takes regarding every bag that is checked would work but apparently we are only doing this at the newly reopened Washington Airport.
Does anyone have any additional info regarding this?
Oct 9, 2001 | 2:35 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2001
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PointsGalore:
apparently we are only doing this at the newly reopened Washington Airport.</font>
apparently we are only doing this at the newly reopened Washington Airport.</font>
That "security expert," whoever it was, was right, btw.
Oct 9, 2001 | 2:46 pm
#3
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I live in DC, and I heard about this a few days on the radio, so things might have changed by now. The way I heard it, though, flights that were inbound to DCA also had to have super-tightened security. They didn't talk about x-raying bags that I remember, but they might have. It seems I remember someone saying that there would be separate security checks, possibly at the gate so that connecting flight travellers would be subjected to them, just for travellers going to DC.
This definitely makes sense -- protect the inbound as much as the outbound. It was also explain why the process of opening up airports is so slow. If they're flying to only 11 or so separate airports, that's only an extra 11 airports that would have to implement the security so far.
[Editing to add a newspaper quote I found about this.]
[This message has been edited by ebell (edited 10-09-2001).]
This definitely makes sense -- protect the inbound as much as the outbound. It was also explain why the process of opening up airports is so slow. If they're flying to only 11 or so separate airports, that's only an extra 11 airports that would have to implement the security so far.
[Editing to add a newspaper quote I found about this.]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
With more politicians and reporters than regular passengers on its first flight, Reagan National Airport reopened Thursday, ending a three-week shutdown for the capital's most convenient airport.
National, which has a main approach route that takes planes near downtown Washington, was closed immediately after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and looked at times like it might be shut down permanently for security reasons. It reopened by presidential order, with the tightest security of any airport in the country.
The first flight out was a 7:05 a.m. US Airways shuttle to New York, whose passenger list included the airline's president, Stephen M. Wolf, and nine Washington area politicians. Most came right back on a plane to Washington.
"We've got to run to make up for lost time and lost money," said Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.). "This was not a victory lap. This was the beginning of a long haul to get back."
Heightened security was evident everywhere, from the armed U.S. marshals at the ticket counters to the National Guardsmen at the baggage X-ray machines. Passengers arriving at National said security had been tight at the airports they left, in keeping with new policies that subject flights to National to additional precautions.
One of those roaming the airport's terminal Thursday morning was U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta, who was thanking airport workers and checking to see whether the new federal security plan was being followed.
"Is it working?" Mineta said. "As far as I can tell, it is."
Asked whether National will see a resumption of its entire pre-Sept. 11 flight schedule, Mineta said, "It will, but I don't know when."
</font>
With more politicians and reporters than regular passengers on its first flight, Reagan National Airport reopened Thursday, ending a three-week shutdown for the capital's most convenient airport.
National, which has a main approach route that takes planes near downtown Washington, was closed immediately after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and looked at times like it might be shut down permanently for security reasons. It reopened by presidential order, with the tightest security of any airport in the country.
The first flight out was a 7:05 a.m. US Airways shuttle to New York, whose passenger list included the airline's president, Stephen M. Wolf, and nine Washington area politicians. Most came right back on a plane to Washington.
"We've got to run to make up for lost time and lost money," said Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.). "This was not a victory lap. This was the beginning of a long haul to get back."
Heightened security was evident everywhere, from the armed U.S. marshals at the ticket counters to the National Guardsmen at the baggage X-ray machines. Passengers arriving at National said security had been tight at the airports they left, in keeping with new policies that subject flights to National to additional precautions.
One of those roaming the airport's terminal Thursday morning was U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta, who was thanking airport workers and checking to see whether the new federal security plan was being followed.
"Is it working?" Mineta said. "As far as I can tell, it is."
Asked whether National will see a resumption of its entire pre-Sept. 11 flight schedule, Mineta said, "It will, but I don't know when."
</font>
Oct 9, 2001 | 2:55 pm
#4
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There finally does come a time when we just have to take some of the chances in life.
Who is checking the three suitcases filled with explosives that each of 1000 remaining "sleepers" here in the USA will carry into a hotel, set the charge and then leave for home?? What if they did this across the world?
Who is keeping these same people from blowing up hundreds of major crude oil and product pipelines that run hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles across the USA, world?
You can still load up a truck with fertilizer at any rural sales/storage facility and mix in a bit of fuel oil and boom. This is still not patched.
How easy is it to pull up some rr tracks here and there?
Think of these and thousands of other targets that are EASY. The only answer is to ride the world, as much as possible of those how would do this. If that means a few phone taps and e-mail reads, then I am for it 100%
Who is checking the three suitcases filled with explosives that each of 1000 remaining "sleepers" here in the USA will carry into a hotel, set the charge and then leave for home?? What if they did this across the world?
Who is keeping these same people from blowing up hundreds of major crude oil and product pipelines that run hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles across the USA, world?
You can still load up a truck with fertilizer at any rural sales/storage facility and mix in a bit of fuel oil and boom. This is still not patched.
How easy is it to pull up some rr tracks here and there?
Think of these and thousands of other targets that are EASY. The only answer is to ride the world, as much as possible of those how would do this. If that means a few phone taps and e-mail reads, then I am for it 100%
Oct 9, 2001 | 3:24 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 113
* * * How Safe is Checked Baggage? * * *
Well. It is perfectly safe for the guy who checks it. He does * * * N O T * * * need to be on any domestic flight himself and NOT get blown up as mentioned in the lead post of this thread.
You do not need a suicide bomber to do this. You need a $30 suitcase, some easily purchased explosive, a Tandy timer, and a valid airline ticket. Total cost? Say $500 all up to take out a 757, and 1000s on ground. And all SO easily avoidable. The perpetrator/s suffers no injury, and can do it again ad infinitum until the whole aviation system gets closed down.
He could buy a ticket today from anywhere USA to anywhere else USA and walk up to check-in, get a boarding pass and check in the suitcase.
Then drive home, and not board. Airline has NO clue and NO interest in this at present. The yo yos in Washington want to take his nail clippers, and Gillette razor, and make him use a dorky plastic knife, and cut him down to one carry-on, but they can't stop ANY person doing the above as they are too lazy or thick to insist on positive bag matching. This works, is simple, and now happens on most if not all INTERNATIONAL flights.
What happens to that large suitcase? It goes onto the plane. With no visual inspection and a possible cursory X Ray check. So, the timing device, and/or altimeter device the nutter hooked up to the 50 pounds of TNT or plastic explosive in the case blows the plane out of the sky when it hits 30,000 feet. Maybe he could time it to blow at 1,000 feet so the exploding plane takes out a few 1,000 innocent folks living in the flight overpath where the plane crashes on take of. I can think out many take off paths that would cause major fatalities if a full fuel load 757 blew up over them at 1000 feet.
Chilling thought, and right NOW is 100% possible. And so easily preventable.
==========================================
[This message has been edited by SkyMiler (edited 10-09-2001).]
Well. It is perfectly safe for the guy who checks it. He does * * * N O T * * * need to be on any domestic flight himself and NOT get blown up as mentioned in the lead post of this thread.
You do not need a suicide bomber to do this. You need a $30 suitcase, some easily purchased explosive, a Tandy timer, and a valid airline ticket. Total cost? Say $500 all up to take out a 757, and 1000s on ground. And all SO easily avoidable. The perpetrator/s suffers no injury, and can do it again ad infinitum until the whole aviation system gets closed down.
He could buy a ticket today from anywhere USA to anywhere else USA and walk up to check-in, get a boarding pass and check in the suitcase.
Then drive home, and not board. Airline has NO clue and NO interest in this at present. The yo yos in Washington want to take his nail clippers, and Gillette razor, and make him use a dorky plastic knife, and cut him down to one carry-on, but they can't stop ANY person doing the above as they are too lazy or thick to insist on positive bag matching. This works, is simple, and now happens on most if not all INTERNATIONAL flights.
What happens to that large suitcase? It goes onto the plane. With no visual inspection and a possible cursory X Ray check. So, the timing device, and/or altimeter device the nutter hooked up to the 50 pounds of TNT or plastic explosive in the case blows the plane out of the sky when it hits 30,000 feet. Maybe he could time it to blow at 1,000 feet so the exploding plane takes out a few 1,000 innocent folks living in the flight overpath where the plane crashes on take of. I can think out many take off paths that would cause major fatalities if a full fuel load 757 blew up over them at 1000 feet.
Chilling thought, and right NOW is 100% possible. And so easily preventable.
==========================================
[This message has been edited by SkyMiler (edited 10-09-2001).]
Oct 9, 2001 | 3:37 pm
#6
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ranles:
There finally does come a time when we just have to take some of the chances in life.
Who is checking the three suitcases filled with explosives that each of 1000 remaining "sleepers" here in the USA will carry into a hotel, set the charge and then leave for home?? What if they did this across the world?
Who is keeping these same people from blowing up hundreds of major crude oil and product pipelines that run hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles across the USA, world?
You can still load up a truck with fertilizer at any rural sales/storage facility and mix in a bit of fuel oil and boom. This is still not patched.
How easy is it to pull up some rr tracks here and there?
Think of these and thousands of other targets that are EASY. The only answer is to ride the world, as much as possible of those how would do this. If that means a few phone taps and e-mail reads, then I am for it 100%</font>
There finally does come a time when we just have to take some of the chances in life.
Who is checking the three suitcases filled with explosives that each of 1000 remaining "sleepers" here in the USA will carry into a hotel, set the charge and then leave for home?? What if they did this across the world?
Who is keeping these same people from blowing up hundreds of major crude oil and product pipelines that run hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles across the USA, world?
You can still load up a truck with fertilizer at any rural sales/storage facility and mix in a bit of fuel oil and boom. This is still not patched.
How easy is it to pull up some rr tracks here and there?
Think of these and thousands of other targets that are EASY. The only answer is to ride the world, as much as possible of those how would do this. If that means a few phone taps and e-mail reads, then I am for it 100%</font>
Right on!
But instead we remove the first 100 feet of parking in airport garages? Why?
We do not allow people to carry corksrcrews or nail files? Why?
All so silly.
Oct 9, 2001 | 4:14 pm
#7
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkyMiler:
* * * [
The yo yos in Washington want to take his nail clippers, and Gillette razor, and make him use a dorky plastic knife, and cut him down to one carry-on, but they can't stop ANY person doing the above as they are too lazy or thick to insist on positive bag matching. This works, is simple, and now happens on most if not all INTERNATIONAL flights.
What happens to that large suitcase? It goes onto the plane. With no visual inspection and a possible cursory X Ray check.
Chilling thought, and right NOW is 100% possible. And so easily preventable.
[This message has been edited by SkyMiler (edited 10-09-2001).]</font>
* * * [
The yo yos in Washington want to take his nail clippers, and Gillette razor, and make him use a dorky plastic knife, and cut him down to one carry-on, but they can't stop ANY person doing the above as they are too lazy or thick to insist on positive bag matching. This works, is simple, and now happens on most if not all INTERNATIONAL flights.
What happens to that large suitcase? It goes onto the plane. With no visual inspection and a possible cursory X Ray check.
Chilling thought, and right NOW is 100% possible. And so easily preventable.
[This message has been edited by SkyMiler (edited 10-09-2001).]</font>
As someone who IS letting the terrrorists win by becoming scared s**tless to fly anywhere with all this....I am trying to make a semi intelligent decsion based on facts...and the facts I'm learning say that very few bags are xrayed or sniffed or looked at whether domestic or international....and if that's the case wouldn;t it be fairly easy for someone to put a bomb in checked luggage still..and if they were willing to die with the plane, well then, it seems kinda foolproof...
edited for spelling as usual
[This message has been edited by squeakr (edited 10-09-2001).]
Oct 9, 2001 | 4:26 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 113
squeakr - agree with you 100%.
Checked bags are the glaringly wide hole for security that now exists. Mean looking National Guards prowling around terminals with loaded assault rifles is not doing anything except scaring away even MORE folks from flying. The terrorists are way too smart to try and sneak on knives again - they'll just exploit unplugged weaknesses. Like suitcases. With or without the passenger being on board.
Taking knitting needles off grandmas and corkscrews off FA's is like a Beavis and Butthead script when that uninspected suitcase we are all sitting above has maybe enough Semtax in it to blow up City Hall.
Checked bags are the glaringly wide hole for security that now exists. Mean looking National Guards prowling around terminals with loaded assault rifles is not doing anything except scaring away even MORE folks from flying. The terrorists are way too smart to try and sneak on knives again - they'll just exploit unplugged weaknesses. Like suitcases. With or without the passenger being on board.
Taking knitting needles off grandmas and corkscrews off FA's is like a Beavis and Butthead script when that uninspected suitcase we are all sitting above has maybe enough Semtax in it to blow up City Hall.
Oct 9, 2001 | 11:42 pm
#9
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 685
Flying this past week, and having my bags come out last on every flight (due to the UA "Priority" tag, of course), I saw quite a few bags marked PPBM. Hardly scientific, but the number I saw makes me think that it seems like they are increasing the number of people hit the criteria for PPBM.
Oct 10, 2001 | 6:09 pm
#12
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So am I actually safer on an international flight than on a domestic flight in terms of hjw well checked baggage is handled/searched??