I am confused as to what "services" the majors provide that Soutwest does not?

Yes, the majors have First Class, but they also charge a premium price for it. They also use it to lure customers through their frequent flyer programs.

The majors fly coast-to-coast. Southwest has been adding to their longer flights, such as Vegas/Buffalo.

The majors fly to a lot more cities. Southwest picks their markets more carefully. But, the majors are free to drop any city that is not profitable anytime they want. So, honestly, I don't see the difference.

Southwest has a billboard that says "If we didn't exist, would low prices?" I completely agree.

Especially now, when the majors are not serving food, what is the difference between peanuts on Southwest or peanuts on a major?

no ticketing agreements- you can't buy multi airline itineraries in case you have to connect somewhere they don't fly. And they won't accept other airline tickets in case of flight interruption.

no baggage agreements -after you've bought the other airline ticket separately, you'll also have to go get your bags and recheck them..as WN won't do it for you.

no advance seating -the infamous "cattle call"

While it's true other airlines drop unprofitable cities, they tend to be very small. Cities or airports WN does not serve include BOS, LGA, JFK, EWR, PHL, PIT, IAD, CLT, ATL, MIA, MEM, MSP, CVG, ORD, DFW, DEN and SFO.

Wouldn't the real reward go to the first airline that announces: "We've reinforced all of our cockpit doors"?

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"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor

To expand on what I mean by that: the reason people aren't flying at pre-9/11 levels isn't because they can't afford it, or because they're worried that they will lose their jobs. They're not flying because (1) they are afraid of attack on the plane, (2) even if they aren't afraid, their husband or wife or parent or child or SO is afraid, and (3) even if no one they know is afraid, they don't believe the plane will take off and land more or less on schedule, or that the airline won't cancel the flight.

This is a safety fear, not a financial fear, and making the seats cheaper isn't going to get the safety fliers back on board. The airlines don't have a good way -- or haven't thought of a good way that they want to pay for -- to persuade us that flying is again safe, so they're waiting for the government to do it for them.

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"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor

Fear is certainly the major factor ... but as Sept. 11 recedes, there's an opportunity to at least chip away at that fear.
Cutting out meal service, denying beverages, talking of banning carry-ons or doing away with pre-assigned seating --- NONE of that will help at all. Quite the opposite, that's going to be a disincentive to some of the folks who are at least giving
airlines a 40 percent load factor ... and to the marginal folks who might be drawn back in the next few weeks, the ones who could bump load factors to perhaps 60 percent.
No airline is going to turn this situation around in a few weeks, but the way to start is NOT by adding extra inconvenience and service cutbacks to save a couple of bucks. In Leo's jargon at DL, that's simply not good business.

Why jump on 747. What he says is eminently reasonable.

If you have a problem, look to see how you solved similar problems in the past. Unfortunately, this problem is without precedent. Isn't it prudent to refrain from precipitous actions until the dust settles a bit?

People tend to believe what is in their economic interest to believe. Remember that slaveholders really believed that slavery was a positive good. Some out there are salivating for lower fares, and recommending this as a sure-fire way to put the industry back on its feet. But remember, willy nilly lowered fares can�t be limited to the weary. Everyone, including those that would have flown anyway will get lower fares. So the question is: Will your total revenues increase? Only the simple-minded could believe that, a priori, lower fares is a positive good for the airlines.

As far as I'm concerned, get rid of the bad food, and even the drinks--or just hand me a can on the way to the plane. Then get those d _ _ _ carts out of the aisle so we can get to the lavs, remove the galley and increase the leg room.

Once that's done, FAs can better perform the function they have always claimed they do--safety. Every one of them should be highly trained in martial arts in order to get a job. IMHO.

Missy,

I agree that those are nice services by the majors. It is my understanding that Southwest would be willing to do multi-airline itineraries and baggage agreements if the majors would let them. It is not Southwest that won't do it, its the majors. They don't like Southwest's low pricing scheme, so they won't work with them.

This is also why Southwest isn't allowed into the "club" to have their tickets in the Apollo system. The big boys are trying to squeeze them out.

Cattle call has both pluses and minuses. I know that many times I have been seated in a window seat on a major airline, only to have the airline place two people flying together in the middle and aisle seat next to me. Meanwhile, there are other aisle seats that go empty, thus not spreading out the passenger load to make passengers as comfortable as possible (an open middle is the next best thing to first class!) Cattle call allows passengers think as they are boarding to make everyone more comfortable.

Indeed, cattle call does reward those who get to the airport early. Reserved seats reward those who buy their tickets early.

One of the tricks of cattle call is that #30 is just as good as #1.

Do any of these 3 items explain why Southwest can fly LAS/ABQ R/T for $170 while Frontier and United charge $230 or more for LAS/DEN R/T? Do any of these 3 items explain why the majors can match Southwest when flying the same route yet charge higher prices when Southwest isn't there to compete with them?

Southwest can go head-to-head with United on LAS/LAX and LAS/SFO and keep the prices down. I wish they would do it on LAS/DEN, but there just aren't enough gates at DEN.

The officials at DEN seem to think that if Southwest came in, it would drive Frontier out of business. While I like Frontier, I also think that it is the American way to compete head-on (within the legal limits) and if Southwest can deliever the same product for less, then they deserve the business. If it is only 90% of the product but 80% of the price, then the public needs to decide if the extra 20% in cost justifies the extra 10% in service.

I believe your assessment of why WN does not interline bags or tickets is in error. Southwest has elected not to participate in the IATA program. Members can interline bags, ticket other carriers, etc. It does cost to join. The last I heard, WN saves money by not being an IATA member. Most other major US airlines are members.

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What do you mean I can't charge my heart bypass to my Visa? I need the MILES!!!

I'm going to post what no one seems to have mentioned - the airlines were in trouble, deep trouble, even before some terrorists dialed 911 on the World Trade Center. But no one wanted to be first in slashing schedules and workforce, for fear that others would crowd in and take business.

The attacks provided the cover for the airlines to layoff and slash in unison, fairly secure in the knowledge that the others would as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some *wink* *nudge* communications about it - but it isn't necessary that there were.

The basic truth is that we are in recession, we have been in recession since June or July. The fast paced internet economy flew people around willy nilly - I knew people who lived in Boston, but were commuting to New York on the Shuttle at customer expense - that's right 200 dollars a day (buying at advanced prices with a corporate discount) every day they had to work. That isn't happening now. We may be flying as many miles - but the over all budgets for flying have plummted. Business trips are now planned well in advance, and saturday stays required on airlines that haven't lifted the Saturday window for whatever reason.