Punkie...You are too funny! Maybe we could stab 'em with our knitting needles?...a right hook with a crochet hook? ;-)
Here's something you all might find interesting, if you didn't read it before.
*******************
Flight 93 Hero Heard on Black Box
>
>By JOANN LOVIGLIO, Associated Press Writer
>
>PHILADELPHIA (AP) - ``Are you guys ready? Let's roll!'' is an expression Todd Beamer used whenever his wife and two young sons were leaving their home for a family outing.
>
>The 32-year-old businessman and Sunday school teacher said the same thing before he and other passengers apparently took action against hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 93 on Tuesday, shortly before the plane crashed in a western Pennsylvania field.
>
>The jetliner, which government officials suspect was headed for a high-profile target in Washington, was the fourth to crash in a coordinated terrorist attack that killed thousands, and the only one that didn't take lives on the ground.
>
>``He was gentle by nature, he was also very competitive, and he wouldn't stand for anyone being hurt,'' said Beamer's wife, Lisa, who was told of his last words by an operator who spoke to him. ``Knowing that he helped save lives by bringing that plane down ... it brings joy to a situation where there isn't much to be found.''
>
>Todd Beamer placed a call on one of the Boeing 757's on-board telephones and spoke for 13 minutes with GTE operator Lisa D. Robinson, Beamer's wife said. He provided detailed information about the hijacking and - after the operator told him about the morning's World Trade Center and Pentagon (<http://rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.news.yahoo.com/sear ch/news?p=%22Pentagon%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw&gt ;news - <http://rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=P entagon&h=c>web sites) attacks - said he and others on the plane were planning to act against the terrorists aboard.
>
>``They may have realized that (the hijackers) were planing to do the same thing with their plane,'' Beamer said Sunday in a telephone interview from her Hightstown, N.J., home. ``So they chose to do what they could to prevent other people from being hurt.''
>
>Before the call ended and with yelling heard in the background, Todd Beamer asked the operator to pray with him. Together, they recited the 23rd Psalm. Then he asked Robinson to promise she would call his wife of seven years - who is expecting a third child - and their two sons, ages 1 and 3.
>
>After receiving clearance from investigators, Robinson kept her promise Friday.

>``People asked me if I'm upset that I didn't speak with him, but I'm glad he called (Robinson) instead,'' Lisa Beamer said. ``I would have been helpless. And I know what his last words would have been to me, anyway.''
>
>Beamer said her husband placed the call at 9:45 a.m. Tuesday and told Robinson that there were three knife-wielding hijackers on board, one who appeared to have a bomb tied to his chest with a belt. The other two hijackers took over the cockpit after forcing the pilot and co-pilot out.
>
>The jet was bobbing and changed course several times; the passengers knew they would never land in San Francisco.
>
>``They realized they were going to die. Todd said he and some other passengers were going to jump on the guy with the bomb,'' Lisa Beamer said.
>
>Several other passengers made phone calls from the jet before it crashed southeast of Pittsburgh: Jeremy Glick, 31; Mark Bingham, 31; and Thomas Burnett Jr. 38. Glick and Burnett said they were going to do something.
>
>Todd Beamer dropped the phone after talking to Robinson, leaving the line open. It was then that the operator heard Beamer's words: ``Let's roll.''
>
>Then silence.
>
>Shortly afterwards, the plane crashed, killing all 45 aboard.
>
>``Some people live their whole lives, long lives, without having left anything behind,'' Lisa Beamer said. ``My sons will be told their whole lives that their father was a hero, that he saved lives. It's a great legacy for a father to leave his children.''
===============================================

As for fighting back... that would depend.

1) Are they stabbing/killing other passengers and crew? Yes, fight back...No, wait and see

2) Have they taken control of the flight deck? Yes, fight back...No, wait and see

3) Are they telling us that they are going to crash into a building like the White House (As it was reported they did on AA flight 77)? Yes, fight back...No, wait and see

4) Have other passengers learned via cell phones that other targets have already been hit? Yes, fight back...No, wait and see

5) Are we going to Jamaica or the Caribbean? Fight back? No Mon, I could use a vacation

As for leading the charge, if the answer was yes to questions 1-4, in a heart beat. But, if someone else were to lead the charge without a yes to one of these questions, I'd be half a step behind them. Once it starts, there is no choice but to join in. It is always better to attack in force, not one at a time.

Lets just hope we are going to Jamaica though.

Punki, you are too funny! Maybe we could jab 'em with our knitting needles, or maybe a left hook with a crochet hook? ;-) That's the spirit! I guess I'll attack from coach.
Here's something you all might find interesting if you haven't read it elsewhere.
***************
Flight 93 Hero Heard on Black Box
>
>By JOANN LOVIGLIO, Associated Press Writer
>
>PHILADELPHIA (AP) - ``Are you guys ready? Let's roll!'' is an expression Todd Beamer used whenever his wife and two young sons were leaving their home for a family outing.
>
>The 32-year-old businessman and Sunday school teacher said the same thing before he and other passengers apparently took action against hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 93 on Tuesday, shortly before the plane crashed in a western Pennsylvania field.
>
>The jetliner, which government officials suspect was headed for a high-profile target in Washington, was the fourth to crash in a coordinated terrorist attack that killed thousands, and the only one that didn't take lives on the ground.
>
>``He was gentle by nature, he was also very competitive, and he wouldn't stand for anyone being hurt,'' said Beamer's wife, Lisa, who was told of his last words by an operator who spoke to him. ``Knowing that he helped save lives by bringing that plane down ... it brings joy to a situation where there isn't much to be found.''
>
>Todd Beamer placed a call on one of the Boeing 757's on-board telephones and spoke for 13 minutes with GTE operator Lisa D. Robinson, Beamer's wife said. He provided detailed information about the hijacking and - after the operator told him about the morning's World Trade Center and Pentagon (<http://rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.news.yahoo.com/sear ch/news?p=%22Pentagon%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw&gt ;news - <http://rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=P entagon&h=c>web sites) attacks - said he and others on the plane were planning to act against the terrorists aboard.
>
>``They may have realized that (the hijackers) were planing to do the same thing with their plane,'' Beamer said Sunday in a telephone interview from her Hightstown, N.J., home. ``So they chose to do what they could to prevent other people from being hurt.''
>
>Before the call ended and with yelling heard in the background, Todd Beamer asked the operator to pray with him. Together, they recited the 23rd Psalm. Then he asked Robinson to promise she would call his wife of seven years - who is expecting a third child - and their two sons, ages 1 and 3.
>
>After receiving clearance from investigators, Robinson kept her promise Friday.

>``People asked me if I'm upset that I didn't speak with him, but I'm glad he called (Robinson) instead,'' Lisa Beamer said. ``I would have been helpless. And I know what his last words would have been to me, anyway.''
>
>Beamer said her husband placed the call at 9:45 a.m. Tuesday and told Robinson that there were three knife-wielding hijackers on board, one who appeared to have a bomb tied to his chest with a belt. The other two hijackers took over the cockpit after forcing the pilot and co-pilot out.
>
>The jet was bobbing and changed course several times; the passengers knew they would never land in San Francisco.
>
>``They realized they were going to die. Todd said he and some other passengers were going to jump on the guy with the bomb,'' Lisa Beamer said.
>
>Several other passengers made phone calls from the jet before it crashed southeast of Pittsburgh: Jeremy Glick, 31; Mark Bingham, 31; and Thomas Burnett Jr. 38. Glick and Burnett said they were going to do something.
>
>Todd Beamer dropped the phone after talking to Robinson, leaving the line open. It was then that the operator heard Beamer's words: ``Let's roll.''
>
>Then silence.
>
>Shortly afterwards, the plane crashed, killing all 45 aboard.
>
>``Some people live their whole lives, long lives, without having left anything behind,'' Lisa Beamer said. ``My sons will be told their whole lives that their father was a hero, that he saved lives. It's a great legacy for a father to leave his children.''
=============================================

After September 11, 2001 I say highjackers beware of the flying public!!!

I don't think that anyone can sit back & do nothing during a highjacking. Clearly the highjackers have changed the rules of the game & we have to adapt. I would fight to protect people on the ground.

Please delete this message.

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 09-17-2001).]

I spent a lot of time thinking about it. I tried to imagine if I was one of the passengers on the first flights. I don't think I would have done anything either.

However, these hijackers changed the rules.

It is no longer done as a quid pro quo. There may be a chance that the hijackers want to exchange hostages for money, for political prisoners, or something else. But now, there is a chance that they just want access to a poor man's cruise missile.

I fight. I fight to the death. Hopefully their death.

I hope I would attack under these new rules. I know the firefighters, police and military would. Any bravery I could show pales beside those who have chosen our protection as their professions.

In 1970, about 4 planes (US and European) were hijacked to the Jordanian desert on the same day.

Passengers overpowered the hijackers on a AMS-JFK flight and the plane landed in LHR. They won!

On September 11, 4 planes were hijacked and the passengers won in a way. Now terrorists are more savage because in 1970, they released the passengers then blew up the planes to create shocking news photos.

I came to the same conclusion as jabber: in a sick way, these murderers may have brought "traditional" hijacking to an end. It's going to be really hard for any hijacker group to control the passengers on a plane, certainly in the USA. If there is another domestic hijacking, I suspect we'll never even find out what the hijackers demands are.

Charles

I heard on the radio this morning that ALPA (air line pilots association) is now ENCOURAGING pax and crew to take proactive action against hijackers.

Good for ALPA! Now, about that preflight announcement....

I would absolutely fight a hijacker, I would fight any violent criminal. And this is not just "in light of the attacks," it's the way I've always run my life. It's what I've always told my wife to do as well, and all those close to me. Almost without exception, the best choice in violent crime is to A: Immediately run away/get away and if A is not possible, then B: fight for your life. Also, never, never, ever, never let anyone take you anywhere. Did I remember to say NEVER?

Some of my best friends are in law enforcement/threat assesment/VIP protection and they give the exact same advice.

I'm constantly saddened by the majority response to violent crime in America. We're teaching thugs that they can expect passivity. Well, they can never expect it out of me. I may end up dead, but I'll be dead on my terms, not theirs.

Guess all of those Bruce Willis movies made an impression on my mind, but I have thought about exactly this issue many times. My true answer is yes, I am an aggressive person and never put up with crap without fighting back. Given the 'traditional' hijackers are messing around with my time, I'd have given them a hard time by fighting back. NOW there is no doubt - fingers in their eyes pushing into the brain as hard and fast as possible. Injury is not acceptable, fast death to all of them is the only answer. I argee with the poster here that said air rage candidates just upped the ante. It will be their mistake.

Hell yes I would fight! I'm only 5'3" and of the so called "weaker" sex, but if I knew that there was good chance that we were going down anyway, what have you got to lose? You might as well make the hijackers' last minutes as unpleasant for them as humanly possible. And who knows, there might just be someone on the plane who is capable of landing it once the hijackers are disabled (it happens in the movies afterall!). Can you imagine 100 passengers running up the aisles, poised to attack a handful of hijackers with ballpoint pens, forks, etc.? It's almost funny (I find I have to find some humor in things to keep myself sane after last week). And you know, you probably COULD kill a hijacker with a ballpoint pen.....if you stabbed him enough times......or did you all mean just restrain the hijackers???? ;-)

I am a 15 year flight attendant with a major US airline. We have always been trained to cooperate, and also that the male flight attendants are the usual target of violence and aggression by the hijackers. That is why my airline's policy is for male flight attendants to take a passenger seat and remove any insignia or uniform item that would identify them as crew.

I, for one, will not follow that company policy in the future should my aircraft be hijacked. I will muster as many able bodied passengers as I am able to rush the hijackers, using anything at my disposal, including and not limited to:

metal oven racks
hot coffee and the metal coffee pots
halon fire extinguishers (discharged to the face)
seat cushions as defensive item
O2 (oxygen) bottles as weapons
full size wine bottles as weapons
serving carts as blocking items
luggage as weapons and blocking items

and, as a last resort, I would do my ****edest to cause a decompression, via means that only air crew are aware of.

I hope all of you, should you find yourselves in a hijack situation will rise up and prevent any future aircraft from being used a a missile.

I, for one, will go down fighting, not cowering.

Given any knowledge of the events that led to this tragedy, no crew or pax will ever allow hijackers to ever take over an airborne plane again. We will fight by whatever means, using street fighting techniques...women can use your heeled shoes and all can use car keys protruding between your first and second finger. Even if people are killed or injured, including myself, I would rather die knowing I tried to save others, as the heroes of the NYFD and NYPD have done.

P.S. Please support the airlines. I'm doing my darndest, having done 3 roundtrips already on DL and US since the attack and flying AA to NRT Monday.