Perhaps after thge incident on WN last year, people chose to exercise restraint & once they figured out what the scum's intentions were, it was too late.

Since most of us here spend more than the average amount of time in the air, we should be more attune to in flight events and know when something out of the ordinary is happening. We should resolve to stay alert & react whenever anything happens. As for me, I'd rather disable or challenge someone who acts out of line or is unruly and risk a lawsuit or arrest on the ground than to have something like this happen again.

One thing no one has mentioned is the paralysis of shock.

It's not about what we could/ should/ would do... It's about chemicals in the human system. Sometimes we just go into shock in the face of terror.

We would probably be like stunned deers in the headlights. Also, it was believed that up to 5 terrorists were on board, it would require some quick thinking to get other passengers to attack with you. Forget MacGyver, Indiana Jones and other heros, it would be near impossible to take down 5 terrorists without being armed. You can only do so many karate moves in the aisles of a 757.

However, it seems on the 4th plane, they did come together but only after possibly realizing what was going on and that they were going to die anyway. In that case I would fight. A cornered rat fights to the death.

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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

After yesterday, I'd fight.

I'm a rusty Marine, pushing 60 years old, but 6'4" and 250, and in reasonable shape. This isn't machismo or armchair theory, just realistic. It helps to think about it before the time comes, so as to avoid the "deer in the headlights" effect and be prepared.

In case anyone ever has to try it, to be successful is much like a bayonet fight or a barroom brawl, even if you're unarmed and the hijacker is armed.

If at all possible, try to completely surprise your opponent. Move fast, try to disable and hurt very quickly, go for the vulnerable places (eyes, crotch, throat, nose, head), hit HARD with both hands and feet as well as your head if appropriate, yell and scream fiercely and continuously, and commit yourself to 110% attack until you are dead or the hijacker is. No mercy, no hesitation. Smash the hijacker's head and body against hard corners and surfaces. Break the neck or any bones you can, and don't slow down or ease up, even if you think you've won.

Kill the hijacker and take his weapon. You may need it.

Ignore injuries to yourself. You'll be surprised how much surprise, fury, and adrenalin can do. Also be prepared to die if need be.

Otherwise, don't try.

[This message has been edited by BobMcD (edited 09-13-2001).]

Well let me start by saying this. I'm a former flight attendant, and they tell you not to fight back. And also try to stop passengers from fighting back. But looking at the event of yesterday, I would have fought back. They had boxcutters. Well each plane had between 40-90 people on board. They couldn't have slashed us all. So it would have been worth a shot. I feel nothing beats any effort you could put forth.

I think if there was any hope of survival then I would go along and be quite. I am nut sure anybody here thought they would survive, the news stories are making it fairly clear people knoew one way of the other they would die. In that case, I would probably want to die fighting then watching.

That's why I'm not getting on another plane without my shotgun http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Given the hightened awareness and the sentiment in search of release woe betide the next idiot who has in mind to engage in air rage.

I heard on the news this morning that on the plane that crash landed a guy had called his wife to tell her they'd been hijacked - she told him what had happened at the WTC. He called her back later to say that the male passengers on the plane had decided to attack the highjackers.

I'm a 5'2" and 98 pounds. I can't even donate blood, but I would fight like hell until I couldn't move. I would try to do my part in organizing my fellow passengers. I have something in mind like passing a message through the rows, something like "get up when I scream/cough/sneeze/stomp/whatever." Then, I would occupy one of the bad guys with me. I've trained in martial arts and self-defense for several years, not that I think this would give me an advantage, since there would be such a size/strength discrepancy, but it might prolong the altercation a bit, and I might just get lucky and be able to scratch out an eye or something. Pre-occupying a bad guy with me would give others a one-up -- even if just for a few seconds. Hopefully, they would realize the opportunity and take advantage of it.
Of course, at this point in my life, I don't have children. My perspective might change once I was a mother; I might be reluctant to take a leadership role, but I would probably still participate on ganging up on the bad guys. I look at that as my duty to my fellow passengers and to the leaders. They'd be looking to everyone for support and depending on the strength in numbers. Even when there are as few as 60 of "us" and as many as 5 of "them," the odds are in the passengers' favor, even if the bad guys have firearms.

For all of us frequent flyers, we should get certified in CPR and first aid and put together plans on what we would do in any type of scenario that we can conceive of. Have a plan ahead of time, and that will help hopefully with the shock.

Of course, not everyone will see things this way. Many people have forgotten what America is all about and now expect others to take care of them. We have to take care of ourselves, we have to have confidence, trust, and the highest expectations in ourselves and our neighbors. We have to do everything it takes to defend ourselves our rights, and our neighbor's rights. We owe that to ourselves and our society. This all sounds corny, but it's true, and so rarely considered these days.

I would fight back after the events of the 11th September. Upto now it was fairly common for the terrorists to demand money or release of terrorists in some prison which meant that there were good odds of getting away unharmed but after WTC events it seems to be quite clear that terrorists want to be kamikazes, so I am not willing to be part of their collateral damage and thus I'd rather bleed to death from stab wounds and save a few (hundred, thousand) unsuspecting people in some far away building than be a quiet and obedient hostage to some crazy terrorists who are on a mission to martyrdom.

[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 09-15-2001).]

The 20/20 hindsight that we now possess was not present at the time of the "hijacking". This term, in the past, assumed that the hijacker wanted to get to some destination. After September 11, I think we can all assume that that destination is now the side of some building. The passengers on the planes did keep calm, as they were told, because "no one would get hurt". We now know that was not the case. This element is not longer on the side of the hijacker.

I would now give the FAA the benefit of the doubt and just assume the hijackers will not have guns. There will have to be a sh*tload of terrorists on the plane before I would NOT make a run at them--and would pray everyone else on the plane would do the same.

Even if they did have guns, they couldn't shoot us ALL, snackyx. Count me in.

Apparently some of the passengers on the plane which came down in Pennsylvania did just that, and succeeded. They're heroes.

Hell no I would not fight an attacker BUT I would trip one or pour hot coffee in their face.

Then what?

Get killed after?

If you fight, fight for death. This is the same principle they teach in law enforcement school, no? If you need to use your gun/weapon, shoot to kill. Never shoot to injure only.

Because an injured criminal is the last person you want to deal with.