In light of the attacks, would you fight hijacker?
 

if i fight, there is a chance we survive.
if we don't, we will still die and become a human bomb ourselves.

i will fight, whether they have knife or gun

If I thought I had chance, and especially if I could communicate with another pax and coordinate it, hell yes!

I wouldn't cross my mind to just sit and watch!

RAD

Without sounding too machismo or possessing 20/20 hindsight, I would fight to my last breath. I think about this every time I fly and sit in row 1 on the aisle whenever possible.

God bless everyone affected by this outrage, especially those on the planes who may very well have put up some resistance.

Conventional wisdom in a hostage situation is to lay low and cooperate, as you are just a tool.

I don't know how I would react, but it may very well not have been clear to any of the passengers that it was fight or die.

And the problem I would face in similar situations is that same level of uncertainty.

If I do nothing do I die/live? If I fight do I die/live?

That's a tough one.. my partner and I were just discussing this. Plenty of people have walked away from hijackings, when the reasons for it are money (well, not so much anymore), and political, as hostages. And as a hostage, you are only worth something if you are alive, and the people who stay alive are the ones that keep their mouths shut.

The thing is, how would you know if the lunatic who just overpowered the flight crew has planned your death and his own for the glory of god, or is someone who is looking to exchange you for a bunch of political prisoners? Do you think there will be announcements?

My thoughts and prayers go out to all affected by this senseless tragedy. Hopefully people will retain their wits during this emotional time and a new cycle of violence will not be spawned by this barberism.

Clearly the conventional wisdom prior to these hijacking was to cooperate and let the professionals deal with the hijackers (hopefully they would land somewhere at some point) and in most cases this would have given the hostages the best chance at survival. With these attacks a new type of hijack (at least as far as I can remember) has been throw in to the equation, the hijack that is not taking hostages to get demands met or a plane to seek asylum somewhere but a hijack where the passengers are irrelvant to the hijacker and the plane is to be used as a crude bomb. Clearly if one knows that the hijacker is one of the later the obnvious thing to do would be to fight like hell. The only problem is that the hijackers are pretty unlikely to tell people what they are up to and indeed would probably tell people that they were not going to get hurt jsut so that they wouldn't have people attacking them. The prisoners dilemma basically.

A related thread:
A 19 yr old Jet Pax Attacks Cockpit door & Dies of apparent MI
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000989.html

PS I still feel the punishment fit the crime, today more than ever!

Until today, I would assess the situation, after today, FIGHT like hell as there would be no tommorrow

I don't know how long it will take me to fully understand the magnitude of this disaster. I am still numb. Who would have thought a single plane could take out one of the tallest buildings in the world?

In any case, I think the assumption going forward now has to be that a hijacker is on a suicide mission and will use a plane as a guided missile. So, yes, I would fight back if put in such a situation. It is something new to think about whenever I fly in the front of the plane, just as I now review my responsibilities when I sit in an emergency row.

Obviously, I pray that the authorities improve aviation security so that the likelihood of such an on-board event occurring is minimized. But if it does, I would also hope that the pilots keep the cockpit secure and stay in control of the plane.

I know we would all like to be the hero and save the day, etc.. However, in reality, how we would react as a hostage or confronting a mugger with a knife, most of us would not risk our life as money and valueables are replaceable while life is not.

I suppose if attacked I would probably fight back. But taking the lead in an assault, that is just plain dumb. I confronted a mugger at an ATM once and ended up with a bloody arm. They didn't get my money, but they did take my watch. It wasn't worth it as the medical bill cost more than the watch and I was lucky no nerves were cut.

Looking back in retrospect to today's event, it would be easy to say what we would have done if on board, however we probably wouldn't know the end result of the attack. Most hijackings end peacefully.

------------------
"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

The pilots were probably killed at early stage, then the planes were flied by terrorists.

There is a reason why all planes were Boeing 757-767... these terroists were probably trained to flight this model.

Why not Airbus?

The pilots were heros, they could and probably did resist.

I don't believe only knives were used, I think something more lethal was involved so the crews were killed/controlled in such short time. Eg, that flight taking off Washington.

each plane had between 3 and 5 terrorists, armed with knives or box cutters.

Sounds tough to overcome them.. maybe if you were in the back and said "ok everyone on the count 5 attack!". Probably your fellow passengers would cower sheepishly while you were cut to ribbons.

The passengers didn't know they were headed for certain death, the terrorists said "don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine" (I know this because flight 11 pilot left mike on so ground control could hear everything)

It is mostly hindsight and machismo, though. We know now that these people had nothing to lose by fighting, but the reality is that this was probably not clear at the time. Hijackings have historically not necessarily been grave life-or-death situations, and flight crews are no doubt trained to realize this and try to encourage people to not do things that would be likely to make the situation worse. For example, there have already been 5 hijackings worldwide this year (before today), 7 in 2000, 8 in 1999, and 14 in 1998 -- only 4 of those 34 flights resulted in fatalities, 8 total out of thousands of people involved.

What happened was horrible and unprecedented; it is very difficult to go back and speculate what any of us would have done. It doesn't matter, anyway.

If someone with a box cutter told me to "pick up my cell phone and call my relatives to tell them you are going to die" as they have just reported on the news. I wouldn't hesitate to jump him / her / it.

Death is Death.

I would rather die a fruitless death, trying to stop the Hijacker, than chance being the only survivor of the crash and know I did nothing to save my fellow man.

-Scott

Damm right I'd fight back, even if the odds were poor. Better to die fighting than to die in fear. I don't say that to be macho, just a fact. There's so many potential weapons: a laptop to the head, a Montblanc as a dagger, etc. We should not bow down to terror; they are just men too!

I have a feeling that, after today, we Americans will be seeing the world from different eyes. This is the end of our innocence. The end of thinking we are loved and admired because we are rich and powerful, the end of believing we are somehow special or protected. We have seen the worst that can happen, and probably next time, when someone tells us to do as we're told and we won't get hurt, we will remember that terrorists are liars.

Somewhere on the news today, they said that a FA had been stabbed. Wouldn't that have gotten some of us to react? We may never know what happened on all of those ill-fated flights, so we can't say our reaction without knowing. But if you saw another human being getting stabbed, wouldn't you try to help get the attacker? I don't know how I would have reacted today--but my first thought would be to try to help, and to try to get others near me to do the same.
I hope I never have to make the decision--but if I do--yes, I will fight.
I'm overwhelmed by what has happened. Our prayers go out to the families of those injured or killed.
Yes, we all have lost our innocence. May those who have planned and carried out this tragedy be swiftly caught, tried, and executed. The time for talking and diplomatic niceties is over. Reaction must be careful, swift and decisive.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

bj-21.

Whether from machismo, some comment of the hijackers, or because they somehow had news of what had happened on the other planes, the passengers of the flight that crashed near Pittsburgh obviously chose to fight--And successfully, at least in the sense of creating a larger tragedy.

After today, I am pretty sure that I would regard any hijacking attempt as a pretext to go all-out against the hijackers, and I suspect a lot of others will feel the same way. Hope I never have to make the choice!

Mike B. in OKlahoma

Hindsight is 20/20. Different situations call for different responses. After yesterday I think most of us will make different decisions since nothing like this has ever happened before. I doubt it was seriously considered a threat before.

Why would you fight? Lot's of planes have been hijacked in the past, they land and usually it ends in peace, there is no possible way you could anticipate the flight to end in such a terrible way. Thank goodness they probably never saw it coming and it was over very quickly for them.

Even as a fairly weak female, I wouldn't in all conscience, be able to sit quietly by as something of this magnitude was occuring. (Something as simple as sticking out my foot to trip them--comes to mind). I too have intervened in the past when faced with a crime and would not hesitate to do so in situation. It has been reported that some on those planes had knowledge of what had happening via cell phones, computers or pagers. I highly commend the actions of those three (and any others unmentioned) who made the decision to attempt an overtaking of the highjackers---and my prayers go out to their families.

Even as a fairly weak female, I wouldn't in all conscience, be able to sit quietly by as something of this magnitude was occuring. (Something as simple as sticking out my foot to trip them--comes to mind). I too have intervened in the past when faced with a crime and would not hesitate to do so in this situation. It has been reported that some on those planes had knowledge of what had happening via cell phones, computers or pagers. I highly commend the actions of those three (and any others unmentioned) who made the decision to attempt an overtaking of the highjackers---and my prayers go out to their families.

We spoke with my father-in-law last night, and one of his parishoner's neices's husband (got that?) was on the flight that crashed near Pittsburgh. Apparently, this man called his wife and said that they were being hijacked. I don't know if they people on the plane knew what had happened (or if it had even happened yet, don't remember the exact timeline), but the passengers had some idea that the plane was going to be used as a missile. Well, this man told his wife that they weren't going to take it, and they were going to rush the cockpit. What a heartening story to hear, of these average people taking the greater good into their own hands. I can only hope this story comes out once the FBI reviews the various cell phone transmissions. What heroes. My prayers for all the affected families.

One, Boeings are more common in US airspace. Two, in some near-collision situations, the computers in an Airbus will override the pilots no matter what.

We (thank God) weren't on the planes in question, so none of us knows exactly what went on.

I'd like to think that I and some othe PAX would turn into a combination of Indiana Jones, Jack Ryan, and Rambo, and disable the hijakers and and steer the plane to safety.

In the past, I think people may have been wise to lay low and hope for the best. After yesterday, I don't think hoping for the best is a viable option. But hopefully I'll never be in such a position.

Until yesterday, I think it was always in the best interest of passengers to go along with hijackers, however, as of today, I think it would take significantly more fire power than knives to take over a plane. I know I would go after them.

I think it's difficult to answer this question without knowing the all of the circumstances.
Almost all hijackings end up being non-violent. The purpose of most hijackings is to obtain hostages for negotiations, which are eventually released safely. On the occasional instances when 1 or 2 passengers are killed (at random), I'm still not sure a mass attack against the hijackers makes much sense.

On the other hand, if the hijackers actually announced their plans to crash the plane, or the people on UA93 were able to find out (via the cell phone calls) that other planes had been used as missiles, I think in that case I'd certainly make an attempt. One assumes/hopes that the passengers/crew of UA93 intentionally crashed it outside Pittsburgh instead of having it continue on to it's eventual target.

Jeff

Whether it's bravado, machismo, heroism, or self-preservation, it's one thing to stand your ground while a bad guy is coming up the aisle towards you with a knife; it's another to take action while he's holding the knife to the throat of a FA or another passenger.

Just a thought.

It seems there was a hero on the flight that crashed outside Pittsburgh. From http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/...text_id=407678

It is now known that in one case the passengers fought back in an attempt to save their doomed flight. Mobile phone communications from United Airlines Flight 93 - hijacked from Newark, New Jersey - indicate that three passengers overpowered the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the plane which crashed near Pittsburgh.

Of course like everyone else, I know my answer is different today than it would have been last week.

Last week, I would assume they just want to fly to Mexico or get a million dollars or some other idiotic idea, and we'd all be fine if we just sit quietly for 20 hours. The wisest course of action would be to just let the authorities handle it whenever the plane lands.

After tuesday, it will be a lot harder to hijaak a plane, because every passenger will have in the back of their mind the notion that these people might not be intending to land at all.

I would fight today, but I wouldn't have had I been on one of the flights tuesday (unless I knew what had been happening in NYC already).

That sounds like what happened on the plane in pittsburg -- they were fine to be quiet until they realized the hijaakers weren't demanding anything other than death.

Perhaps after thge incident on WN last year, people chose to exercise restraint & once they figured out what the scum's intentions were, it was too late.

Since most of us here spend more than the average amount of time in the air, we should be more attune to in flight events and know when something out of the ordinary is happening. We should resolve to stay alert & react whenever anything happens. As for me, I'd rather disable or challenge someone who acts out of line or is unruly and risk a lawsuit or arrest on the ground than to have something like this happen again.

One thing no one has mentioned is the paralysis of shock.

It's not about what we could/ should/ would do... It's about chemicals in the human system. Sometimes we just go into shock in the face of terror.

We would probably be like stunned deers in the headlights. Also, it was believed that up to 5 terrorists were on board, it would require some quick thinking to get other passengers to attack with you. Forget MacGyver, Indiana Jones and other heros, it would be near impossible to take down 5 terrorists without being armed. You can only do so many karate moves in the aisles of a 757.

However, it seems on the 4th plane, they did come together but only after possibly realizing what was going on and that they were going to die anyway. In that case I would fight. A cornered rat fights to the death.

------------------
"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

After yesterday, I'd fight.

I'm a rusty Marine, pushing 60 years old, but 6'4" and 250, and in reasonable shape. This isn't machismo or armchair theory, just realistic. It helps to think about it before the time comes, so as to avoid the "deer in the headlights" effect and be prepared.

In case anyone ever has to try it, to be successful is much like a bayonet fight or a barroom brawl, even if you're unarmed and the hijacker is armed.

If at all possible, try to completely surprise your opponent. Move fast, try to disable and hurt very quickly, go for the vulnerable places (eyes, crotch, throat, nose, head), hit HARD with both hands and feet as well as your head if appropriate, yell and scream fiercely and continuously, and commit yourself to 110% attack until you are dead or the hijacker is. No mercy, no hesitation. Smash the hijacker's head and body against hard corners and surfaces. Break the neck or any bones you can, and don't slow down or ease up, even if you think you've won.

Kill the hijacker and take his weapon. You may need it.

Ignore injuries to yourself. You'll be surprised how much surprise, fury, and adrenalin can do. Also be prepared to die if need be.

Otherwise, don't try.

[This message has been edited by BobMcD (edited 09-13-2001).]

Well let me start by saying this. I'm a former flight attendant, and they tell you not to fight back. And also try to stop passengers from fighting back. But looking at the event of yesterday, I would have fought back. They had boxcutters. Well each plane had between 40-90 people on board. They couldn't have slashed us all. So it would have been worth a shot. I feel nothing beats any effort you could put forth.

I think if there was any hope of survival then I would go along and be quite. I am nut sure anybody here thought they would survive, the news stories are making it fairly clear people knoew one way of the other they would die. In that case, I would probably want to die fighting then watching.

That's why I'm not getting on another plane without my shotgun http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Given the hightened awareness and the sentiment in search of release woe betide the next idiot who has in mind to engage in air rage.

I heard on the news this morning that on the plane that crash landed a guy had called his wife to tell her they'd been hijacked - she told him what had happened at the WTC. He called her back later to say that the male passengers on the plane had decided to attack the highjackers.

I'm a 5'2" and 98 pounds. I can't even donate blood, but I would fight like hell until I couldn't move. I would try to do my part in organizing my fellow passengers. I have something in mind like passing a message through the rows, something like "get up when I scream/cough/sneeze/stomp/whatever." Then, I would occupy one of the bad guys with me. I've trained in martial arts and self-defense for several years, not that I think this would give me an advantage, since there would be such a size/strength discrepancy, but it might prolong the altercation a bit, and I might just get lucky and be able to scratch out an eye or something. Pre-occupying a bad guy with me would give others a one-up -- even if just for a few seconds. Hopefully, they would realize the opportunity and take advantage of it.
Of course, at this point in my life, I don't have children. My perspective might change once I was a mother; I might be reluctant to take a leadership role, but I would probably still participate on ganging up on the bad guys. I look at that as my duty to my fellow passengers and to the leaders. They'd be looking to everyone for support and depending on the strength in numbers. Even when there are as few as 60 of "us" and as many as 5 of "them," the odds are in the passengers' favor, even if the bad guys have firearms.

For all of us frequent flyers, we should get certified in CPR and first aid and put together plans on what we would do in any type of scenario that we can conceive of. Have a plan ahead of time, and that will help hopefully with the shock.

Of course, not everyone will see things this way. Many people have forgotten what America is all about and now expect others to take care of them. We have to take care of ourselves, we have to have confidence, trust, and the highest expectations in ourselves and our neighbors. We have to do everything it takes to defend ourselves our rights, and our neighbor's rights. We owe that to ourselves and our society. This all sounds corny, but it's true, and so rarely considered these days.