ALPA proposes explosive decompression in hijack situations
Sep 15, 2001 | 6:40 pm
#1
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ALPA proposes explosive decompression in hijack situations
ALPA is asking all pilots to agree to explosive decompression of cabins in the event of future hijackings. Would cause loss of consciousness and could cause death in extremely young or old. Also insisting on heavy reinforcement of cockpit doors.
Sound like good ideas to me. Unfortunately, I think we're going to have to get used to the idea that some may be sacrificed to save many more.
Sound like good ideas to me. Unfortunately, I think we're going to have to get used to the idea that some may be sacrificed to save many more.
Sep 15, 2001 | 7:53 pm
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Exactly what kind of "gas" do you have in mind (other than what is shown in the movies)? Fatal gas, sure. But knock out gas? Not in reality.
Sep 15, 2001 | 8:07 pm
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i think that we should fight. the captain or first officer [ being in a very secure place and being informed that there was a serious thing going on] should announce that it was every person for himself and get the perps. i think i might try to kill them but i don't know. i would feel much better w/ my small knife in my travel vest.
Sep 15, 2001 | 10:28 pm
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Going forward, I think every exit row pax has to be ready to pull open that emergency exit while the plane is still in the air and every pax sitting in a front cabin aisle seat has to realize that his/her body is the last line of defense to the cockpit in the event of a hijacking. It's no longer just about extra leg room. This, of course, assumes that all pilots have passed thorough background checks and the cockpit is in secure hands.
Sep 15, 2001 | 10:28 pm
#7
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If ALPA was serious about solving the hijacking problem, then they would deter impediments to the solution:
Case in point:
The Northwest pilots hat carried small knives and a corkscrew through security on 13 Sep (PHX). ALPA should have suspended these members. It is not the place of those pilots to test the security system, much as it is not my place (although I wish it was) to question the qualifications and abilities of their pilots.
From firsthand experience, the pilot in the PHX incident said that he didn't feel comfortable flying with such loose security.
Case in point:
The Northwest pilots hat carried small knives and a corkscrew through security on 13 Sep (PHX). ALPA should have suspended these members. It is not the place of those pilots to test the security system, much as it is not my place (although I wish it was) to question the qualifications and abilities of their pilots.
From firsthand experience, the pilot in the PHX incident said that he didn't feel comfortable flying with such loose security.
Sep 15, 2001 | 10:41 pm
#8
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Most hijacks are not intended for collision. Many are done to get hostage exchange for demand.
Now you are proposing an auto-destruct feature in all civilian flights? I don't think regular passengers will feel good about boarding such a flight.
Would you get on an airplane with auto-destruct function that can be activated by pilot or ATC?
Now you are proposing an auto-destruct feature in all civilian flights? I don't think regular passengers will feel good about boarding such a flight.
Would you get on an airplane with auto-destruct function that can be activated by pilot or ATC?
Sep 16, 2001 | 6:55 am
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MoreMiles, Explosive decompression wouldn't destroy the plane, it would just quickly lower the oxygen level in the cabin and knock everyone out. Pilots, I imagine, would have their masks on and be able to continue to fly.
Since everyone is suppsoed to have their seatbelts on during the flight, I wonder if pilots could take the aircraft on a "roller coaster" ride in the event of a hijacking. This could disable/injure the hijackers, but probably the crew as well.
[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 09-16-2001).]
Since everyone is suppsoed to have their seatbelts on during the flight, I wonder if pilots could take the aircraft on a "roller coaster" ride in the event of a hijacking. This could disable/injure the hijackers, but probably the crew as well.
[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 09-16-2001).]
Sep 16, 2001 | 9:17 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Going forward, I think every exit row pax has to be ready to pull open that emergency exit while the plane is still in the air</font>
Greg
Sep 16, 2001 | 10:07 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by greg99:
and why the diagrams of window exits show the passengers pulling the window and placing them on the seat inside the plane.
</font>
and why the diagrams of window exits show the passengers pulling the window and placing them on the seat inside the plane.
</font>
Sep 16, 2001 | 10:28 am
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greg99 and usoftie, thank you for the correction. At the end of the day, the pilots must be able to control where the plane lands, and I am for any measure that would allow them to do that, even if it resulted in casualties in the pax cabin.
Sep 16, 2001 | 10:44 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">but this is wrong, and a common misconception. You are right that exits are designed to be "plugs", and it would take someone of superhuman strength to open an exit when the plane is compressed. But if you ever have to open an overwing emergency exit (that isn't on hinges), you need to throw it OUTSIDE the plane (which is not easy). If you leave it on the seat, you will force people to crawl over it to get out.</font>
Thanks - not off-topic and an important correction.
I'm sitting here picturing how to do that, and you're right - it doesn't seem easy.
For an interesting discussion of the problems with this type of door from the journal Flight Safety Australia see below:
http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/fsa/d...1Mar/39-40.pdf
Greg
Sep 16, 2001 | 10:49 am
#14
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You would be far better off having the pilots taking the plane on a roller coaster type ride--anyone standing would be tossed about.
Why not install a software patch that would lock the plane into autopilot until the pilots (using a security code) determine it safe enough to resume normal flight operations?
Why not install a software patch that would lock the plane into autopilot until the pilots (using a security code) determine it safe enough to resume normal flight operations?
Sep 16, 2001 | 11:45 am
#15
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Tango, that is a very sensible idea, although it may cost lives of passangers, I can imagine a pilot will disengage the lock if a passanger were being threatend with a weapon.
The whole idea about what to do is put into another perspective on the news that the airforce were ordered to bring the last jet down by force, The brave passangers on that flight seemingly saved many lives by taking that decision themselves, god bless them.
The whole idea about what to do is put into another perspective on the news that the airforce were ordered to bring the last jet down by force, The brave passangers on that flight seemingly saved many lives by taking that decision themselves, god bless them.