A simple (and serious) suggestion: Why not arm the pilots? Most of them are ex-military and know how to use weapons. They could defend the cockpit themselves. Anyone who tries to break down the door gets shot. Pretty effective deterrent. There would be no additional expense for sky marshals. The pilots are there already.

This simple change would be much more effective at stopping hijackings than any currently under consideration.

Bruce

umm.. what if you had a crazy insane pilot who happened to be a terrorist. Wouldn't it be even more dangerous then, for him to be armed.. he could take out the co-pilot and do it all himself...

A crazy, insane or terrorist-minded pilot has a reasonable shot of taking down the plane anyway, if they approach it methodically. The key is to ensure that pilots are properly screened and reviewed as well.

Armed pilots, with proper equipment and proper training, would likely prevent many more incidents than would occur from the very rare rogue pilot using these weapons in his or her own terrorist activities.

Why not arm them? After all we trust them with the controls of what has just been shown to be a very effective weapon.

If every cockpit contained a gun, then what happend the other day would not have come down the way it did (knives). You don't take a knife to a gunfight... Remember the scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark?"

There is ammunition that reduces the risk of hull penetration. Even so, if a round were to pierce the pressure hull, that's why we have oxygen masks.

I for one am going to miss having my swiss army knife with me in my travels.

Boatman

I go shooting pretty regularly with two commercial pilots (one FedEx the other is Varig or something-- I'm not sure) both of whom are ex-Army and exceptional marksman.

Also, like most pilots I've met, they are among the most stable, likable and serious-minded folks I've ever met.

I think arming pilots would be the single, most-effective deterrent imaginable.

Hmmm. Imagine terrorists take over the cabin. They get on the intercom and tell the pilot a passenger and/or FA will be murdered each minute until the pilot comes out and tosses the gun on the floor. One is killed as they speak to make their points.

What is the pilot to do then? It will not work IMHO.

This is all 20/20 hindsight now. I am in favor of some self-definese traing for the flight crew (kung fu?) including the FAs. They have had to deal with air rage, now hijackers who took control with only knives and cardboard cutters.

I also think the pilots need a monitor to see what's happening in the cabin. It can give the pilots warning and perhaps some precious minutes to do whatever he needs to do.

Part of the solution will be training the pilots to address such situations. If pilots are going to open the cockpit door anytime a passenger or crew member is threatened, nothing will stop terrorists. We are going to have learn to make sacrifices, and pilots will be trained about those sacrifices as well.

Gun in the cockpit? IMHO, it's just another reason for the terrorists to get in there.

Western pilots are not trained to suck up sacrifices like downed FA's or pax. If they were to stay ignorant an cold / calm (with bullet proof doors of course) then it would be a lot harder for the terrorists to get into the cockpit and take control of a plane. We have just seen that a loss of even a jumbo load of pax cannot be compared to the loss of lives if this jumbo was used in ramming a skyscraper. If even killing all the pax and FA's would not secure the control of a plane to the hijackers then they woud think twice about committing such a crime in the first place since they always want to secure a crazy result for themselves and playing themselves into the hands of authorities isn't certainly one of them if a plane lands safely.

Avgas,

The point is deterrence. Just having armed pilots on board greatly reduces the odds of a hijacker being successful. The smart ones will choose easier targets. (And don't tell me the guys who pulled this off weren't smart.)

If a situation gets to where bad guys are killing off cabin crew and pax, where would you rather be: in a place where the good guys can fight back with superior force (or at least more equal force) or in a place where the good guys are defenseless. I know my choice.

Better to retrofit the cockpit. Make it so the pilots and stews can't open the doors (much like 7-11, employees can't open the safe). Food would be served thru slots; a bathroom would have to be added or at least a target-hardened door with passage to the F/C bathroom.

God, I hate that it has come to this.

A pressurized aircraft is usually not the best place in which to discharge a firearm. Perhaps non-projectile weapons might be a better choice.

I think it is a crazy idea. I do not believe that weapons should be used in a civilian aircraft. They can bring the plane down or worse yet, an unauthorized individual can gain access to the pilot's weapon.

If the weapons are allowed, then the would be hijacker knows that he need not bring his gun. All he has to do is overpower the pilot(s) or someone in the crew.

Let us not be the Monday morning quarterbacks. We may be the frequent flying public but we are definetely not security experts ( unless there are security experts among us). We have to bear in mind that a policy that makes sense to us may not be practically feasible and may not be possible to implement nationally in the entire civil aviation system.

I am going to do the most logical thing that occurs to me. I am not going to complain, arrive early at the airport and follow the procedures in place. If I have any suggestions, I will pass them on to the proper authorities. I suggest that if we have sensible suggestions, we should make a list ( moderators please moderate) and pass it on the proper authorities via Flyer Talk

Safe Travels
MSP2000

For domestic flights, I agree with the concept of a hardened door and 'relief tubes' for the crew. The military alum will be familiar with these aparatus anyway....

And under NO circumstances would the door be open.

To me, this is the simplest and most effective solution.

What ever happened to Sky Marshalls??? I'm not old enough to remember when US airlines had uniformed Sky Marshalls on board domestic flights but I do fly certain foreign carriers and have seen uniformed ones on board. I particularly fly a foreign carrier that is very open about the fact that they have 3-4 undercover armed marshalls on board EVERY single plane on EVERY single flight. They haven't had a hijacking or incident in over 20 years. What's wrong with the US?

I'm sorry but banning curb side check & knives on board doesn't give me one bit of comfort. I can't be certain, but I'm realitively sure that none of these suicide hijackers used curb side check in.