If you decide to do that again, make sure you tell them about Flyertalk! What an interesting way to recruit new contributors to our mix...


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Great idea, M-A!

I actually sold some of these on ebay. I checked pretty carefully before doing so because I certainly don't want to jeopardize my AA status. There is nothing in the fine print about from kelloggs about selling these things. I checked the boxes, coupons and the web site. I don't think there would be a problem if you were selling nutrigrain bars that have these, so what is the difference just selling the coupons. If anyone else knows different please post it. I am rechecking as well, but I do think there is a distinction between these kelloggs coupons and AAdvantage awards. Appreciate the input. Thanks.

If the seller of a kellog's mileage certificate and the buyer of a mileage certificate do not have Advantage accounts, how can they be breaking any rules. If you do not have an account, you have not accepted any of American Airlines terms and conditions. (even if you do have an account, you are not buying/selling/bartering miles from that account). How can American threaten anyone if they have not agreeded to any of the terms? There is no state or federal law that prohibits this and American can't close down an account that does not exist.

If American was concerned about this, they should have put a disclaimer on the coupon that they could not be bought/sold/or bartered and they did no such thing.

Last but not least how is this hurting anyone? Kellogs got the money from selling the product, American got money from selling the miles to Kellogs, the buyer and seller are in agreement on the price and the seats given away for the miles are capacity controlled.

AA says specifically in their rules that you can't buy or sell miles. They control what that means and that includes their partners.

drewman

Also, the rules printed on the Kellogg's boxes say "Diversion, purchase, sale or trade of any offer requirement is prohibited" and "This offer may not be published in any any refunding magazines or elsewhere without Kelloggs permission."
-- Suzanne

For what it's worth, I emailed American about selling these coupons and this is the response:

"We do attempt to discourage the auctioning of the Kellogg certificates, as we have specific agreements with certain
companies to distribute miles and are obligated to allow only those companies to distribute miles. But realistically, there
is little that we can do at this point to prevent individuals from selling or buying them on eBay. The AAdvantage department
does monitor the online auctions on eBay and may send you an email asking you to remove the auction.

Hope this answers your question."

Pretty much a "non answer" in my opinion.

I could understand the seller not having an AAdvantage account...but why would someone purchase the certificates if they did not have an AAdvantage account...perhaps they were purchasing the certificates for someone else.

As far as I am concerned, I would not want to jeopardize my AAdvantage account or someone else's account by violating their rules. Like just about anything in this world, I suppose you can find loopholes to take advantage of things, but when it comes to the consequences of getting caught, some things are just not worth doing.

If any of you are considering this method of profiting from the AAdvantage program, I wish you all the best of luck!

United also has specific rules posted on their website regarding the sale of miles online:

Mileage auctions on the Internet

"Seen Mileage Plus� miles being auctioned on the Internet? If so, remember that the sale or barter of miles or awards other than by United is a violation of Program Rules. These transactions are unauthorized and United reserves the right to confiscate or cancel any miles or awards acquired in this way. If you need extra Mileage Plus miles, you can now buy them directly from United online."

http://www.united.com/site/primary/0,10017,1136,00.html

BobLinderman: I can think of many people who would buy miles on Ebay without have an advantage account---depending on the number of miles. If someone was selling 25000 miles(as a free ticket) or 50000 miles as a upgrade award, there would be reason to bid on this even when not a member. If you won the bid, you would open up an account, deposit the miles and claim your award.

Buying and selling miles/awards is not a new discussion, but this one strikes me as something completely outrageous. I think AA went way over their heads here, they are infringing on fundamental private property rights. When one buys any Kellogg?s products (with or without AA miles) he/she retains the fundamental rights to sell or dispose of it in any way, providing it does not violate US laws. The same right would extend to empty boxes from any product or their fragments. It belongs to the person who legally acquired the product; AA or Kellogg?s has no claims over it.
When they are harassing people who intend to try to buy or sell these certificates, they are foolishly exposing themselves to the legal challenges. I have very little faith in class action lawsuits, but I do look forward to this one.

Oh, well, on a lighter note, it is easy to beat AA in this game even today. Don?t you, folks, has someone in your family without AA account? Just use third persons to buy/sell any airlines-related awards as long as awards are anonymous.

There was a discussion of Kellogg's AA miles on one of the shopping bulletin boards, and sure enough, some of them thought that if you collected 2,000 AA miles, you could fly to see grandma who lives 2,000 miles away. I am sure this must be what the ebay bidders are thinking. Imagine their surprise when they learn that it takes 25,000 miles for a plane trip.

Tango...

It's like Randy Petersen always states, "Buyer beware." I would hate to purchase the miles, open the account and have AA find out in some way, shape or form who I am. The consequences are certainly not worth the act.

I do not know what the laws are, but I do know that AA's rules are a lot more stringent than programs like Southwest. Also, I am sure that people get away with selling their AAdvantage miles everyday without getting caught. However, for my hard earned AAdvantage miles, it simply is not worth getting caught for a few boxes of cereal or a few bucks on eBay.

I have a couple of Kellogg's coupons in front of me now and there is nothing written on the coupons that states the coupons cannot be sold, bartered or whatever. But, as AAdvantage members, we should all know better because we are all subject to the rules that state "Any AAdvantage miles cannot be sold, bartered or whatever.

I agree with most of your previous posts, that most people generally do not read the rules and regs and sell their miles out of ignorance. Furthermore, I find it absolutely careless and irresponsible for American Airlines (and not Kellogg's because they are in the cereal biz) not to post those very words on the back of each certificate. By placing these miles certificates on the back of a "mainstream" product like a box of cereal, they are attempting to attract more new customers for American Airlines...and they are attracting people who are just joining the AAdvantage program for the first time who are not familiar with the rules and regulations. As someone who caters their business to "mainstream consumers," I firmly believe you cannot expect these "newbies" to instantly become aware of the rules overnight and these people are more apt to find a value to these certificates and list them on eBay. For AA's "eBay Police" to send such a harsh letter out to a potential new customer is like practicing bad, punitive marketing toward the very people who they are attempting to attract.

In other words, all it would take is a simple "disclaimer" on the back of each certificate which states the miles and certificates cannot be sold or bartered. The irresponsible part of this whole thing from AA is that this promo has been going on for well over a year and they have not learned from their mistakes. AA is just content to send "just say no" emails to their potential good customers who "violate" their policies on eBay.

Bad marketing!

Perhaps AA's marketing people will learn something valuable from this. For those of us who save and value AAdvantage miles, this is a fantastic promotion that I am certain we all hope will last beyond the expiration date. Personally, I have purchased more Kellogg's cereal than I have ever purchased in my lifetime, just in the past eighteen months of this promotion! I can attest that this promo has worked in my household...my pantry rivals Jerry Seinfeld's now!

Please let me know what you all think about my views...this is a very interesting subject which is receiving a lot of deserved attention!

Be well and safe travels to all!

Bob Linderman
Fairlawn, OH

As a follow-up to my above statement, there is a great deal of fine print on the inside of the cereal box (the stuff people do not read) which states that you cannot sell, barter or whatever AAdvantage coupons...however, to read this information (which I am sure less than 1% of the people who cut the coupons off of the box ever read), it takes a lot of effort because you have to cut or tear the box to get to the rules and regulations and very few people are going to read fine print off of the back of a box of cereal.

Therefore, I stand behind my statement that the main part of the disclaimer of the rules and regs which prohibit selling or bartering should be written on the back of the certificate where people are being forced to write their names on. That part is being read because people are being told how to redeem their miles and that is where the mailing address is provided.

I can certainly understand why normal, everyday people who are new to the AAdvantage program could use ignorance as an excuse to sell their Kellogg's certificates on eBay now. For AA, a little common sense would have gone a long way.

There is no way to track who buys or sells Kellog's advantage certificates (unless you do it on Ebay). If there is not tracking method on how you acquired the mileage certificates, and you send a bunch in with your newly opened account, how would AA be able to tell that you bought the coupons?---AA can't. The risk is close to zero.

I find the rules that AA imposes on buying/selling miles too be very exteme and a feeble attempt to protect their bottom line. Stray miles have no value. 25000 miles have limited value and 50000==>125000 miles have extreme value. By not allowing people to pool miles (through buying/selling) they are limiting the value of all of the miles out there. Since over 50% of the miles given out each year are sold by American to partners (AA makes 100's of millions from this) [the rest are from actual flown and bonus miles], AA is getting rewarded by selling miles but limits the value by not letting people buy/sell them.

I fail to see what harm it does to AA to allow this. All mileage awards are capacity controlled so they are not going to be giving away seats that normally could have been sold.

It is the same logic that keeps people who buy the tickets from earning the miles or if you buy two tickets (for comfort or whatever) on the same flight for yourself you only earn miles on one of the seats--not both.