The Transfer Time Thread (TTTT)
Apr 23, 2005 | 5:03 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,111
The Transfer Time Thread (TTTT)
I have seen a lot of posts of people asking how long it takes to transfer points to miles, etc. I have recently transfered into AA and thought it might be a good to start a consolidated thread.
Format should be MM/YY FROM - TO: #DAYS. Mention if you paid any fees to speed up the process. I didn't.
03/05 Starwood - AA: 7
03/05 Priority Club - AA: 6
04/05 Marriott - AA: 5
Format should be MM/YY FROM - TO: #DAYS. Mention if you paid any fees to speed up the process. I didn't.
03/05 Starwood - AA: 7
03/05 Priority Club - AA: 6
04/05 Marriott - AA: 5
May 7, 2005 | 4:04 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Programs: AA Plat, BA, DL, Frontier, NWA, SWA, UA, HHonors Gold, Priority Club Plat, Choice Priv, BW, Diners
Posts: 1,554
Originally Posted by michaelr
I have seen a lot of posts of people asking how long it takes to transfer points to miles, etc. I have recently transfered into AA and thought it might be a good to start a consolidated thread.
Format should be MM/YY FROM - TO: #DAYS. Mention if you paid any fees to speed up the process. I didn't.
03/05 Starwood - AA: 7
03/05 Priority Club - AA: 6
04/05 Marriott - AA: 5
Format should be MM/YY FROM - TO: #DAYS. Mention if you paid any fees to speed up the process. I didn't.
03/05 Starwood - AA: 7
03/05 Priority Club - AA: 6
04/05 Marriott - AA: 5
Sorry, I don't have specific data of the type you wanted handy. The typical statement I can look up doesn't show the date an activity posted to the airline, only the date of the activity, so if I don't remember on which day I saw it post, I don't have the data in the form you want). And I don't tend to check my FF statements on a daily basis, so I don't usually know exactly how many days something took to post.
But I can tell you that what confuses most people is that they think there's a transfer time. Well, what is actually much more important is the transfer INTERVAL. The actual transfer time (which would be counted from the next available interval) depends on the means of transfer: Some partners transfer "by wire", but others send tapes or discs physically, and that obviously takes longer.
The transfer interval is more relevant, because for some pairs of partners it is only once a month, and then if the transfer method is prone to occasional failure, you have to wait a SECOND transfer interval for the transfer to work. (At some other partner pairs the nominal transfer is twice a month, or every two weeks, or every week, or twice a week, or daily or at best instant.)
Finally, there the "finality" aspect. The transfer won't even start until the transaction is considered pretty final. Now, in the case of an airplane flight that was prepaid, it's theoretically as soon as your boarding pass is scanned at the gate. In the case of a hotel stay or a rental car, it's as soon as you check out or make the return, and settle the final bill with no problem, and the payment clears.
But in the case of an online mall purchase, the finality may not be for a month or more later, as they wait to see if you will return your purchase within the allowable refund/exchange period! That's why "mileage mall" purchases are considered among the "slowest posting" types of mileage transfers most people run into (they typically only have a monthly transfer, on top of a month+ "finality" wait, which means 8 to 12 weeks typically and sometimes even longer).
Because of these variables, you cannot take any ONE specific experience ("data point") for a partner pair and make a judgement based on that. For example, while Priority Club transfers to British Airways only once a month, stays that happen right before that transfer post in days, while stays that happen a day later WILL DEFINITELY take a month to post! You'd need a lot of stays at different times of month (which I had over the last couple years) to figure out this pattern.
May 8, 2005 | 4:14 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,062
Here here! Order in the court!
Great post, Stefan Daystrom!
Your explanation is perfect.
I have known of this conundrum myself all along, but the way it was explained by you is what would actually help the layperson or newbie to understand it better, and old farts like me to at least try to accept it more. (Well, the second one may be less likely to happen, and waitin' fer miles still pisses me off, but at least I know everyone else understands why it can be so slow).
In the case of things like the UAL mall, my big beef is with MARKETING itself...
MARKETING tells you and I--and a billion other people--that if we do X, we will get MILES.
It mentions a safety timeframe of 4-6 or 6-8+ weeks to get those miles and so if we read the fine print and understand the basic terms and we remain ok with that, we can try to plan our mileage intake based on those standards.
BUT the transfer interval thing does not allow us to ever KNOW when we will actually get those miles... you certainly cannot plan (except maybe with most idines, and with some experience with the same promo as with the PC one you mentioned). You just cannot count on WHEN you will actually get those miles you worked for and yet all the MARKETING done by those malls, airline partners and other entities put forth by and endorsed by said airlines, TELLS US that we WILL get the miles in a certain time!
Yup, it's a flat out lie.
And it is NOT in the fine print that this is the case either... It is such that we are lead to believe that all miles are created equally, and they are just not.
Furthermore, in the case of companies like Points.com, they too have their problems giving you the miles you transact for, and yet you PAY them to screw it all up on you and make you wait for weeks--no, months--on end.
I may sound bitter here but I am not. The subject gets me going, but those who know me, know of a person who has a good heart and sense of humor. I am in marketing myself, but I HATE the airline partners and their scamming partner friends. I hate them so much, most who know me in here know that my "crusade" is to try to actually fix this major problem! Sure, some think I am out to get a certain company I always mention or trash, but the smart ones know what this is all about. I do not take sole credit for the efforts, but I do not give up trying to solve the timing problem itself, so this is a good post for me to vent in and hopefully someone visiting will join the cause.
So why do I ever particpate, you ask? Well, it SHOULD work, it COULD work and hey, that's what we do: We travel, try for miles and attempt to play our role as paying customers! Why should'nt we participate in the big play?
I spend time on the issue as well. When your company promises me something on a certain time or date, if I paid for it then by gosh I want it at that time or date! No questions asked!
Deliver or default. And default has a fee on MY side!
If that happens, the airlines--et al should pay out extra or change their system on behalf of all like customers! Negative situations concerning the missing mile subject should have by now sunken in but someone who runs the show in those companies continues to screw it up. And yet whenever you transact with the slow to post places, you are actually feeding the fire and letting that idiot keep his or her job!
How sick.
Just think of it that way and if you have ever been out of work in your life, consider that again and again. I am paying for services that fail to deliver but the people who let that happen on my dime are still employed.
What person here would NOT fight that?
Well I do. I have spoken at great length with directors of such programs as Points.com and UAL Mall, Sprint long distance and Ebay (anything points). I have come head to head with marketing managers and their bosses at all the airlines and have fought and scratched and clawed my way up the ladder and through the gauntlet to get to the person in charge of X. Of course, once there, it gets all professional again They respect you and they figure that another person in the know has finally come a knockin so they let me in. And with that, we talk and try to solve some issues, and it attempts to work itself outfor now. All my wins in these battles become win-wins, and I usually end all conversations with kind, agreeable words, but with one condition clearly stated on my side:
Ok, [airline/marketer] I have gotten to your desk and that proves two things: (A) I am tenacious and I WILL get my miles (or whatever it is I am due) and (B) you DO have a serious problem and this lone customer isnt going to let it just fade away until the top people know about it! As if I were some advocate (and maybe some nay Sayers in here would love to give me what for), I will not let the issue die because it affects more than just me, my friends and family and all FT people who read my posts. I do not want these types of screw-up organizations to get away with it because it sucks!
So they give me my mile and my due diligence, but I always want one more thing, and this one actually makes them raise an eyebrow... I tell them this:
I dont even care so much about your giving me MY missing miles (or rebate or money or whatever) right now, but what I do want is that you work hard right this moment to change the terms, work on how this looks from a PR standpoint, fix your problem so other people do not have it in the future, and make your marketing more fair because if you do not, then you will lose customers and I am one of the loud ones! They will go elsewhere, your place will lose money and you will lose your job.
I tell them I will check in regularly and that the exposure of both the problem and their agreeing with me that it does in fact exist, it will be publicized.
With that, I get some bonus miles I never even planned on or intended to obtain, and the problem goes away for me at that point. BUT, such problems persist nonetheless in the grand scheme of things and so the battle goes on... I hold back on doing business with whichever partner I just went to war with, and thats one less customer for them. I figure with some more pushing and some collaborative efforts, maybe it'll sink into one of these rip-off marketer's heads one day and if not, THAT, my friends, will be the downfall of the mileage program. If we dont start making collective demands with proven and fair solutions to the very problems we all face, we will lose out. Why? Because if we do not fight it properly, it will be a disorganized us and a frustrated customer service department collective, overwhelmed with angry calls and letters, that ruins the deals as we know them today. I say we come up with ways for these marketers to FIX their problems, not just complain about them. Thats what FT could also be used for A petition of sorts, not just a bunch of people posting issues about this subject in all sorts of scattered threads I have seen through out. With that, I hope the problem is fixed in a smart way before all of its clunky plumbing just bursts and makes a big mess, but until then, Ill just keep talking like this in long posts of MM style, and Ill earn and burn as if it could all end tomorrow. I will also continue to find my own ways to make sure I am not ripped off by timing and stupidity. And if I learn a trick that works for a few weeks or months, or intervals, I will continue to get upset when they go and change the terms without notice! (why do we have to be so loyal and moral and ethical when they can go and do stuff like that anyway?)
Well, finally, I hope this post helped someone. Not the ones who would come in here and actually lie to us all saying none of this has ever happened to them... that's bull. Admit it: It has happened to you! I say we work together here, but its up to all of us to fix the timing issue and get this right There have been a lot of other threads about it, but all these little fires need to grow as one.
MM
Your explanation is perfect.
I have known of this conundrum myself all along, but the way it was explained by you is what would actually help the layperson or newbie to understand it better, and old farts like me to at least try to accept it more. (Well, the second one may be less likely to happen, and waitin' fer miles still pisses me off, but at least I know everyone else understands why it can be so slow).
In the case of things like the UAL mall, my big beef is with MARKETING itself...
MARKETING tells you and I--and a billion other people--that if we do X, we will get MILES.
It mentions a safety timeframe of 4-6 or 6-8+ weeks to get those miles and so if we read the fine print and understand the basic terms and we remain ok with that, we can try to plan our mileage intake based on those standards.
BUT the transfer interval thing does not allow us to ever KNOW when we will actually get those miles... you certainly cannot plan (except maybe with most idines, and with some experience with the same promo as with the PC one you mentioned). You just cannot count on WHEN you will actually get those miles you worked for and yet all the MARKETING done by those malls, airline partners and other entities put forth by and endorsed by said airlines, TELLS US that we WILL get the miles in a certain time!
THEY LIE.
Yup, it's a flat out lie.
And it is NOT in the fine print that this is the case either... It is such that we are lead to believe that all miles are created equally, and they are just not.
Furthermore, in the case of companies like Points.com, they too have their problems giving you the miles you transact for, and yet you PAY them to screw it all up on you and make you wait for weeks--no, months--on end.
I may sound bitter here but I am not. The subject gets me going, but those who know me, know of a person who has a good heart and sense of humor. I am in marketing myself, but I HATE the airline partners and their scamming partner friends. I hate them so much, most who know me in here know that my "crusade" is to try to actually fix this major problem! Sure, some think I am out to get a certain company I always mention or trash, but the smart ones know what this is all about. I do not take sole credit for the efforts, but I do not give up trying to solve the timing problem itself, so this is a good post for me to vent in and hopefully someone visiting will join the cause.
So why do I ever particpate, you ask? Well, it SHOULD work, it COULD work and hey, that's what we do: We travel, try for miles and attempt to play our role as paying customers! Why should'nt we participate in the big play?
I spend time on the issue as well. When your company promises me something on a certain time or date, if I paid for it then by gosh I want it at that time or date! No questions asked!
Deliver or default. And default has a fee on MY side!
If that happens, the airlines--et al should pay out extra or change their system on behalf of all like customers! Negative situations concerning the missing mile subject should have by now sunken in but someone who runs the show in those companies continues to screw it up. And yet whenever you transact with the slow to post places, you are actually feeding the fire and letting that idiot keep his or her job!
How sick.
Just think of it that way and if you have ever been out of work in your life, consider that again and again. I am paying for services that fail to deliver but the people who let that happen on my dime are still employed.
What person here would NOT fight that?
Well I do. I have spoken at great length with directors of such programs as Points.com and UAL Mall, Sprint long distance and Ebay (anything points). I have come head to head with marketing managers and their bosses at all the airlines and have fought and scratched and clawed my way up the ladder and through the gauntlet to get to the person in charge of X. Of course, once there, it gets all professional again They respect you and they figure that another person in the know has finally come a knockin so they let me in. And with that, we talk and try to solve some issues, and it attempts to work itself outfor now. All my wins in these battles become win-wins, and I usually end all conversations with kind, agreeable words, but with one condition clearly stated on my side:
Ok, [airline/marketer] I have gotten to your desk and that proves two things: (A) I am tenacious and I WILL get my miles (or whatever it is I am due) and (B) you DO have a serious problem and this lone customer isnt going to let it just fade away until the top people know about it! As if I were some advocate (and maybe some nay Sayers in here would love to give me what for), I will not let the issue die because it affects more than just me, my friends and family and all FT people who read my posts. I do not want these types of screw-up organizations to get away with it because it sucks!
So they give me my mile and my due diligence, but I always want one more thing, and this one actually makes them raise an eyebrow... I tell them this:
I dont even care so much about your giving me MY missing miles (or rebate or money or whatever) right now, but what I do want is that you work hard right this moment to change the terms, work on how this looks from a PR standpoint, fix your problem so other people do not have it in the future, and make your marketing more fair because if you do not, then you will lose customers and I am one of the loud ones! They will go elsewhere, your place will lose money and you will lose your job.
I tell them I will check in regularly and that the exposure of both the problem and their agreeing with me that it does in fact exist, it will be publicized.
With that, I get some bonus miles I never even planned on or intended to obtain, and the problem goes away for me at that point. BUT, such problems persist nonetheless in the grand scheme of things and so the battle goes on... I hold back on doing business with whichever partner I just went to war with, and thats one less customer for them. I figure with some more pushing and some collaborative efforts, maybe it'll sink into one of these rip-off marketer's heads one day and if not, THAT, my friends, will be the downfall of the mileage program. If we dont start making collective demands with proven and fair solutions to the very problems we all face, we will lose out. Why? Because if we do not fight it properly, it will be a disorganized us and a frustrated customer service department collective, overwhelmed with angry calls and letters, that ruins the deals as we know them today. I say we come up with ways for these marketers to FIX their problems, not just complain about them. Thats what FT could also be used for A petition of sorts, not just a bunch of people posting issues about this subject in all sorts of scattered threads I have seen through out. With that, I hope the problem is fixed in a smart way before all of its clunky plumbing just bursts and makes a big mess, but until then, Ill just keep talking like this in long posts of MM style, and Ill earn and burn as if it could all end tomorrow. I will also continue to find my own ways to make sure I am not ripped off by timing and stupidity. And if I learn a trick that works for a few weeks or months, or intervals, I will continue to get upset when they go and change the terms without notice! (why do we have to be so loyal and moral and ethical when they can go and do stuff like that anyway?)
Well, finally, I hope this post helped someone. Not the ones who would come in here and actually lie to us all saying none of this has ever happened to them... that's bull. Admit it: It has happened to you! I say we work together here, but its up to all of us to fix the timing issue and get this right There have been a lot of other threads about it, but all these little fires need to grow as one.
MM