I added my 2 favorites to the Wiki, Pentagon Federal Credit Union Visa credit card, and Bank of Internet debit card. Both actually make you a net profit by using them. I tried to add links to both in the Wiki, using standard HTML, but the system simply printed the tags and would not actually produce a link.

please explain how these make you a net profit. Thanks.

I think he means that he makes money just like I do off the MBNA card. The fee is less than the cash rebate (1.5% for the MBNA card).

pgary, I understand your point, but I think it is misleading to put a special note on the table about cash rebate or rewards in the "Additional Fee" column. Rebates and rewards are not tied to foreign transactions, but apply to all purchases. Most of the cards listed have some kind of rewards program.

citibank cards/rewards
 

Does anyone know if Citibank/ATT universal (one of those cash back cards) provides cashback on purchases made overseas.
i made two charges totaling about 200 overseas. I had so many other transactions, ones w/ 5% due to gas station and supermarkets, i'm not sure how to exactly calcuate my cashback...

citibank reps told me for purchases made outside the USA they due not accrue any rewards.
my brief quick calculation shows that i do get rewards.

Anyone know this for sure?

FWIW, the Amtrak MC, also an MBNA card, is similar. No additional forex fees of any kind. Most forex transactions come out within a few cents of the interbank exchange rate you'll find at oanda or xe.com. I know that someone had mentioned a few months ago (in this thread perhaps) that the Amtrak MBNA card had introduced a 3% (total) forex fee, but that's just not been the case with the one I use, at least not so far. There are two kinds of Amtrak MC's; this is the green one (the only one available at the time of our enrollment), which offers 500 bonus points for first use. I wonder if the fancier Amtrak MC charges a 3% forex fee? Or perhaps this feature was grandfathered on our card? At any rate, this is our card of choice for forex transactions, and we also have a CapitalOne cash-back VISA, in case the MBNA Amtrak introduces a forex fee.

Canadian Creditcards
 

For Canadian CC's

Amex 2.5% surcharge
Citibank 2% surcharge
MBNA 2.5% surcharge
Royalbank Visa 2.5% surcharge

I called my various credit offices and that's what they quoted.

I'm not 100% sure, but anything that shows up as a regular purchase should accure rewards. I've always earned miles for Citi AA purchases overseas, and don't know why the cashback or other Citi reward cards would be any different. You probably won't get 5% back on groceries/gas/drugs, though, since those stores probably won't be reported to Citi as the proper merchant categories, but the basic level rewards should accure.

experiment with foreign exchange rates
 

Here are the results of a small experiment I made with foreign exchange on credit cards. On 12/27 I made identical charges in the amount of R$12.27, in the currency of Brazil (the ‘real’), to my MBNA American Express card, my MBNA Fidelity MasterCard, and my CapitalOne VISA. Both MBNA American Express and CapitalOne VISA claim to charge only a 1% exchange fee. In the case of MBNA Fidelity MasterCard, telephone representatives usually say the fee is 3%, but sometimes they say 1%. All of these cards offer cash rebates: CapitalOne is 1%, MBNA Fidelity is 1.5%. MBNA AMEX varies from 1% to 1.5% depending on its color and in some cases offers double rebates for travel and entertainment expenses. Here are the results:

MBNA AMEX: $5.29, posted on 12/29
MBNA Fidelity MC: $5.22, posted on 12/28
CapitalOne VISA: $5.22, posted on 12/28

The exchange site oanda.com gave the conversion as $5.24471 using the interbank rate for 12/27, $5.24583 for 12/28, and $5.24352 for 12/29. On the basis of these rates, the difference in posting date for AMEX should have resulted in a slightly lower dollar amount, not a higher one. It remains to be seen, of course, if any of the cards will charge a separate ‘finance’ fee when the monthly statements are printed, but phone representatives I spoke to claim there will be none. For now, AMEX is the big loser, with a 1.34% difference with respect to the other two. MBNA Fidelity would seem to be the winner, since it offers a higher rebate. Nonetheless, the picture would be reversed if MBNA later throws in a 3% fee. And taking rebates into account, AMEX would come out ahead in the case of a travel and entertainment expense.

In a recent column, noted budget travel expert Ed Perkins lists actual exchange rate transactions from a recent trip to London. As expected, Capital One MC and VI cards fared the best, as did withdrawals from Citibank ATMs and ATMs affiliated with Bank of America (provided you have a Citi or BofA card). ^

As explained in prior posts, you do not need a "debit" card to use ATMs outside the US - any bank ATM card will work just fine so long as your bank is part of the Cirrus (preferably) or Plus networks. I personally use Citi and BofA ATM cards that don't have Visa/MC debit functions, and I do not recommend debit cards for anyone as your bank account can be quickly drained if the number is compromised. :eek:

Here's the relevant excerpt:

A look at the scoreboard

On my last trip to London, I ran a comparison of how many dollars you'd have to exchange to net 100 pounds in cash or a charge. Here's what I found, using the various options, as adjusted for the current wholesale exchange rate of $1.77 per pound.

To charge a 100-pound purchase:

$179 with a no-gouge MasterCard or Visa credit card
$180 with an AmEx card
$183-$184 with gouge MasterCard or Visa credit cards

For 100 pounds currency, using a debit (ATM) card at an ATM:

$179 using a Bank of America ATM card at a Barclay's Bank ATM or a Citibank ATM card at a Citibank branch in London
$181-$185 using most other ATM cards at most London banks

For 100 pounds currency, exchanging U.S. dollar currency or travelers checks:

$187 at Lloyd's Bank
$188 to buy a 100-pound travelers check in the U.S.
$189 at Heathrow Airport
$192 at Coutts Bank
$193 at San Francisco Airport
$196 at a typical London street "bureau de change"

Some basic game plans

Given the complexity of the situation, it's hard to develop "one size fits all" recommendations. Still, here are a few good general approaches:

For credit card purchases, use a card issued by a bank that does not add a surcharge to foreign billings. Among those banks are Capital One, USAA, and quite a few smaller banks and credit unions.
For cash, use a low-fee ATM card. If you're heading for Australia, Britain, Canada, France, or Germany, you can use a debit card from Bank of America without any fees at ATMs owned by one large bank in each of those countries. You can use a Citi debit card at Citi-owned ATMs in lots of foreign countries, although Citi's coverage is spotty in many places. Debit cards from quite a few smaller banks also allow no-fee or, at worst one-percent-fee, withdrawals from foreign ATMs.

Each of the three credit card issuers has now issued final statements, and none of them added a separate finance charge. The conclusions are:

1- MBNA Fidelity Rewards does NOT charge a 3% foreign exchange fee, notwithstanding explicit information that it does charge such a fee given by its phone representatives. Perhaps new accounts have this extra fee.

2- MBNA AMEX converted at about 1.34% more than MBNA Fidelity MC or CapitalOne VISA for identical charges on the same day at the same foreign merchant, not withstanding MBNA’s claim that its AMEX charges only a 1% foreign exchange fee, equal to the stated fee of CapitalOne VISA. In fact, MBNA AMEX costs more to use than the stated 1%, although the extra charge is not made explicit anywhere on the statement. This would seem to be ripe field for a class action suit since MBNA's claims are clearly deceptive. In fact, none of the information given by MBNA representatives, with respect to either the Fidelity MC or the AMEX was correct.

The moral is: avoid American Express for international use; use CapitalOne VISA or an old MBNA card if you would like a rebate.

The one mechanism not tested here is so-called dynamic currency conversion, which can cost far more than any exchange fee.

The second part of this article is now available:

http://www.smartertravel.com/advice/...lue=2006-01-12

Ok. So what card for me if

1) minimize overseas fees
2) need to be able to bank online and easily transfer funds between my main bank (citibank) and the ATM bank?

Thanks.

You should probably get a Capital One Visa card for point-of-sale transactions.

And then, if possible, you should get an account from any bank that offers a "Plus" or "Cirrus" ATM card without a Visa/MC logo, and that promises you there will be no fees. Alternatively, you can get an account from a bank with a Visa Debit card, which will usually have the Plus and/or Cirrus logos on the bank. You slightly increase your risk of your account being cleaned out if your card is lost or stolen, but most banks will put the money back after investigation, and it sounds like this won't be your primary account anyway.

My checking accounts are at Umbrellabank.com and at Commerce Bank of NJ/NY/PA. Both offer Visa Debit cards--Umbrella with Cirrus and Commerce with Plus. Commerce seems to offer a slightly better exchange rate at ATMs (I believe they still "eat" the 1% Visa fee), but you may not be available to open an account with them in your area. Umbrella charges no fees beyond the 1% Visa forex fee for ATM transactions or point-of-sale transactions, and they also rebate ATM owner fees.

For online transfers between banks, I pass things through my ING Direct savings account. It takes 5 business days for deposits to become available at ING, and there is a limit to how many withdrawals you can make per month, but there are zero fees or minimums, they currently offer 3.80% APY on the account, and you can link up to three external checking accounts for easy online transfer. I keep most of my cash in ING and transfer it to Umbrella and Commerce as needed (withdrawals usually are available in 1-2 business days). If you want an ING account, PM me for a referral--you'll get $25 and I'll get $10.

Is anyone willing to pay the surcharge for the miles you get from certain cards?

I travel between New York, London and Rio De Janeiro a few times per month. The best and lowest cost ATM/Credit combo for me is HSBC. They're everywhere in Rio, London (Especially an ATM at arrivals at Heathrow) and near where I live in NY. No fee's on withdrawals and 1% on the CC.

The other countries I have visited have also had an HSBC branch as well. I suppose the best card combo for anyone depends on where you'll be travelling.

I have three accounts at HSBC (Two checking and a savings). They have an online only savings account at 4.25%. You can't make any transactions with this account with tellers, but you can use their ATM's (Big advantage over ING). All of the accounts are linked together with their online banking, but are NOT linked with my main ATM/debit card (The savings account has its own ATM card). I can go online and shift funds around as needed and have them available instantly.

Flipside