At least with LH FA can choose where in the cabin they like to work based on seniority,
yaou guess what they prefer...

Sorry I have joined this debate a little late. I took pleasure in booking my family 1 + 12Mth baby + 6 Yr Old and 4 Yr old into business class on award tickets this summer.
I enjoyed the fact they would receive better service and a more stress free trip for all the pain of my FF mileage. I fail to see the problem, these are consumers, however junior, and if someone is paying for the luxury where is the problem?
Personally I enjoy kids on flights and I agree with all of the above references vis a vis snobbism etc. If the parents are trying that's good enough for me.

[quote]Originally posted by paradocs:
Well I guess parenting in the US (and maybe even more so in Texas) is different than in Europe. Still, to me it seems absurd to claim that the kids are comfortable in coach! They would be a lot more comfortable in First and if you can use miles for yourself and your wife to upgrade it seems unfair not to upgrade your kids as well.

When I flew as the teenage guest of the elder Law Lord, who was large of body as well as of spirit, I got the middle seat and he got the aisle or window (whichever our pair happened to be) unless we could maneuver an aisle and window combination from the airline. Unfair? It seemed to me to be so at the time. However --

1. He paid for the tickets; I didn't.
2. He was much larger than me and would be much more uncomfortable in the middle seat than I would.
3. I wasn't his guest in the sense of hospitality (it wasn't like one's dinner host taking the larger steak and leaving the smaller one for the invited guest).
4. I could have stayed home instead of going to New York, Miami, London, San Francisco, or Boston.

On some occasions he was in F and I was in Y (never as a very small child, but from age 11 or so). He courteously explained to me that if I wanted to pay for first class then I could ride in first class. Fair enough.

peter42.. this is also a fact... The more senior you are the more control you have over where you are...

BTW anyone here racked up "elite" status on a corporate jet?

Actually Peter42, most FAs that I speak to prefer the main cabin. The work is not so simpler and the people are usually more pleasant. They say thank you. Still we digree for the string..which I feel has been rather flogged to death.

It's not the kids...it's the PARENTS. My observation is that with 2 person working executive families, we are seeing a lot of kids accompanying their parents, who have been upgraded into the front cabin. In every case where there has been a disruptive kid, I have noted that the parent or nanny (gee, I hate that word) has made no attempt to restrain the child's activity. It really can be done by using the word "no". Where I come from, that's a full sentence. Note to folks who have expressed disdain in this thread for those of us riding up front: when you fly 50 to 100 thousand miles a year, and deal with the baloney we do, you can join us. It's not a socio-economic slight.

You should have been on the NW flight I was on last month... FA's being transported in FC who thought they were better than everyone else. One of them cut right in front of me in line at the podium without even looking at me or saying a word! After boarding, the same FA put her huge bag marked "CREW" under her seat, (it only fit halfway) then moved to a window seat.

Another FA flying in first was late, she was upset because someone was in her seat. I saw what had happened, there were empty seats (like the one the other FA took) and some pax had moved around to accomodate a couple. The FA got very upset and had the lead FA find her some other seat, but she was still upset - I guess she really wanted whatever seat she had been assigned.

-Robert

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goldlust:
[B] Well I guess parenting in the US (and maybe even more so in Texas) is different than in Europe. Still, to me it seems absurd to claim that the kids are comfortable in coach! They would be a lot more comfortable in First and if you can use miles for yourself and your wife to upgrade it seems unfair not to upgrade your kids as well.


I have to agree with Paul Palmer that we are flogging this one to death, but as long as there still seems to be interest I can't resist defending myself to Goldlust.

Goldlust, I don't know how old you are and unless you are in the vicinity of 40+ you can't identify. Does any one on the board remember how easily you could sleep anywhere as a teenager compared to later in life? Maybe it was on a floor somewhere, or at your desk at school or in the car.

My children are average sized for their age. They do fine on an overnight in coach. Their dad and I do not.

Goldlust, you missed the point about my not wanting to spend the points on upgrading the children. I can take these same points and buy them a coach ticket to visit some place in this vast world they will not get a chance to visit again until they make their own fortunes. Ask them which they would prefer. I did and the answer is that they would rather go more often and see new places than ride in business.

As for parenting in Texas versus Europe that's a whole new topic! But, I think LawLord put it all into perspective. Fair? Fair to whom? Who said it has to be fair?

To answer you first question last: fair to the kids, of course. Your views seem taken directly from Home Alone I-II and I surely hope you will not argue that the poor boy Kevin's parents are good parents. They fly First and have their kids in coach.

I'm sorry but your views are just so strange to me. Proposal: you and your spouse could fly coach as well and you could take you kids even more places. IAPA and several other organizations have recently raised the flag because of the risks of flying long haul in coach. You're not willing to expose yourself to that but you have not problem exposing the threat to your kids. I doubt any parent in my country could dream of such absurd thinking. I am not trying to insult you - it just seems obvious to be that you are way wrong. Who says it has to be fair? Well, as long as there are people like you, it hardly ever will be fair... unfortunately.


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Ok, I stayed out of this thread for a long time, but since it refuses to die, I'll chime in.

From about second grade on, there is no excuse for poor behavior. 7 year olds go to school, and presumably have learned how to behave in a community in a quiet setting. I believe that it is the parent(s)' responsibility to ensure that their child behaves, and take appropriate actions if this does not occur. As my cousins (8 kids between 3 of them) say "I'm the mom, you're the kid."

But, very rarely do I see a 7-11 year old misbehave on an airplane. They're usually great, and it's harder to be an accidental seat-kicker with 40 inches of pitch... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif When they are not great, their parents are often not model passengers, either.

Younger than that, it depends on the child and the flight. But, I think the fancy restaurant analogy applies. Parents should use their judgement. We should respect parents that are obviously trying, and endure parents that are NOT trying.

But, I'd contend that my heavy snoring in transatlantic business class is just as annoying to a light sleeper as a slightly fussy 9-month-old would be....

I started this thread. Seems everyone is ignoring the fact that it dealt with infants/toddlers in first class who aren't old enought to do other than scream and holler when they hurt, etc.

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AS MVP Gold, UA PremEx, HHonors Gold, Hertz Pres Circle

I am amused with the assumption here that most infants and kids are not desirable from the Airline point of view.

Just let us take a few marketing lessons from the tobacco companies. If you hook them young, they stay addicted. If I were an airline executive, I would love to hook them in from the time they are infants. If they can afford First/Biz as infants they may be ideal life long prospects to chase.

A few years ago I switched from UA to AA because of their treatment of infants and kids. UA was deliberately avoiding pre-boards, etc. to discourage families from flying them and going after the biz traveller (Several press articles exposed this strategy). I was one of those biz traveller with an FF family.

At least now, I find UA and others have learnt their lesson and do not treat families as pariahs. I patronize all major airlines now and I do find that they chase after my dollars anyway and gladly welcome my FF kids, infants in FC and all http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I agree with you 110%!! But sadly it seems that some working class or unemployed family people with kids who use complimentary upgrades or miles for upgrades have hijacked this discussion with typical derogatory remarks against people who have achieved some status in life. After all, calling someone a SOB or worse just indicates what they themselves really are.

It takes one to know one... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif