As my moniker suggests, my kids (ages 2, 4) fly everywhere with me. The more kids do something, the better they get at it. Here's what I do:

1. Pack the essentials, but pack light. There may come a time when you have to pick up a child so don't bring unnecessary bags. Bring diapers, books, snacks, but that's it.

2. Get window/middle seats. It's easier for kids to fall asleep into you when you're at the window instead of the aisles.

3. Prepare to speed change. My wife and I changed two kids in 45 seconds right at a gate. In contrast, the only flight my wife ever missed (I wasn't there) was when she went to a bathroom to change a kid and didn't have enough time to get to the gate.

4. Just like in business, don't overpromise. Better to have a juice bottle with you than promise drinks are coming and not get any juice for an hour.

5. If possible, stay with the best airports. I never fly through ORD or DTW. I stick with MSP, MKE and PIT. It's tough running through an airport carrying your luggage and 30 pounds of kid.

6. Fly just before nap time. Forget red-eyes and pre-dawn jaunts. Getting a flight just after lunch usually means a nap and an hour of peace for me.

7. Prepare for the unexpected. On one flight the plane circled the airport several times and one son vomited. Have a spare change of clothes or the vomit bag handy.

> we would rather sit all in a row of 3 seats

Thank you! I once had the [dis]pleasure of
being seated next to a 2-3 year old in the
last row of FC. The parents took a pair of
bulkhead seats. See a problem here? <g>

Kid was very unhappy. Very, very unhappy.
Parents showed zero interest/concern with
the fussing, screaming & general unruliness.

Ultimately a FA chewed my butt for being
such a lousy parent ... uh, Miss; this one
ain't mine. The parents are seated in 1F
and 1F and I'd sure appreciate it if you
relocate this scream machine to sit with
his mommy.

The FA fixed that problem promptly!

-drr

Doesnt the topic of kids, especially infants, in FC kind of fall under the same category as going to a fine, fancy restaurant only to have your evening disturbed by someone else's noisy kids? Dont get me wrong, I have 3 kids of my own ages 11, 10 and 6 and I would never have dreamed of taking them in FC as infants. Even now that they are older and are seasoned flyers I would think very seriously before putting them in FC. Of course I am also the kind of parent who controls her children... we've all sat next to the kind who dont. But I do feel at a young age coach is more acceptable, just as when your kids are little you eat at McDonalds or Friendlys sand save Lutece for when you have a sitter.

I admit that I don't have kids, but isn't this the easiest way to stop a kid from crying: put your hand over their mouth -- then they'll simply breath through their nose. After all, you can't cry through your nose. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but it seems like this wouldn't hurt the kid physically. Little kids can breathe through their noses, right? So do this for a few seconds and won't the kid stop crying? Or will he just start crying more. As I say, I don't have kids. Maybe this is against the law as physical abuse. I don't know.

I have found most parents most apologetic about unruly infants. However, I realize that they oftentimes have much less control over their child's behavior than we might believe.

I have usually found more irritating the attitude of some of the passengers... especially those in first class.

I do believe they whine more than the babies!!!!

William

Premex2000: I think you answered your own question. You would have your baby taken away from you in a heartbeat. I'm having a hard time believing you actually posted that suggestion (or even thought of it).

My last experience was an SFO-CDG over the holidays. An entire family of six was occupying just about half of the first class cabin. Sitting right behind me was an infant (barely two ears old) in the suite.
He screamed the entire way. The mother had absolutely no interest in quieting the kid down. I turned my head back a few times and gave her the look of death but it did not seem to do anything.

People have a right to have kids. No one forced them to. I also have a right to a quiet ride (whether I pay first class or coach is not even the issue).

Screaming kids are about as problematic as cigarette smoke, and I wish airlines did something about it.

[This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 01-08-2001).]

PremEx2000:
In addition to being borderline abuse (depends on your state), I doubt it'd work - if anything, you'd likely freak the child out more.

Of course every child is different. I'm thinking about taking Caitlin (5) with me on a trip to DFW later this year. Victoria (3) couldn't do it. Patrick (2) would LOVE it, however I suspect that every passenger within the sound of his voice wouldn't.

Parents should certainly exercise some discretion - we shouldn't fool ourselves into unrealistic expectations of our children.

However kids are still kids. And frankly, there are more than a few so-called adults I've encountered in FC who could out-do my kids for being thoroughly disruptive.

If you want to be a SOLUTION to the problem, bring along a snack. I always pack breakfast bars, and on a PVD-IAH flight, 3 or 4 of these kept the situation calm with a little one next to me. Cheap and easy solution - and the toddler's mom (as well as everyone within earshot) certainly appreciated it.

------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

I try to live my life by this principle, and wish society would do the same:

I have the right to swing my hand only so long as it does not hit you.

Some children are fantastic on planes. Others are nightmares. I have had many FC flights ruined because of someone's child who just wouldn't stop screaming. I wasn't upset at the child, but at the parent. The parent should be sensitive to other passengers' needs, and not view themselves as the onmly important person in the world. If your child is not a good flyer, sit in back. Please don't ruin everyone else's trip.

I am not a parent yet, but will be. When I am, it won't give me the right to trample on other people just because I CHOSE to have children. We all need to think more of others and less of ourselves. A screaming child in FC gives maybe some pleasure to the parent(s), but diminishes the pleasure of others.

And, yes, I think people in FC have a greater right to a quiet cabin than people in coach.

Why is it that people freaked when the pig was in FC, but defend to the death people's right to take infants in FC? You shouldn't take anything or anybody you can't control into first class. It's just rude.

I remember my days at a little tot, flying in first from Korea back through Hawaii to Cincinnati. Oh the fun I had pooping in my diapers, wailing when everything wasn't exactly to my liking, running up and down the aisles, and when the urge struck, kicking the seats (or anyhting else) around me.

So its 30 years later, and I no longer consider most of those activities as enjoyable as I once did. And would I bring my little angel (or demon) on board in first, assuming I had such an individual? In a heart beat. Travelling is miserable enough in coach as it is; I couldn't imagine doing so with the added burden of any progeny.

You all have every right to think and express your elitist attitudes. Others have every right to ignore them. In fact I ignored such attitudes just last week. My nine year old has status with USAir and just upgraded herself and her nine year old friend when she went to Disney World last week. Her friend's parents choose to sit in the back because the father is uncomfortable with flying and likes to sit over the wing. I know my daughter, and I assume she behaved, but I don't know for sure that she didn't do something to annoy the other passengers. If she did, I'm sorry, I wish it wouldn't have happened, but the prospect of it didn't stop me from letting her have fun with the idea of being upgraded. USair had no problem giving them the upgrade, so I assume that they either didn't see an issue or they aren't allowed to prohibit it under the rules or maybe the law.

Since some of you don't have kids, you can probably be excused for not knowing much about it. But you post as if you do know. Even a fantastic flyers can have a bad day. That applies to babies, kids, and adults. And sometimes it may seem that a parent isn't trying to quiet a baby or child when they actually are. The parents know how their kids react to things, and sometimes the best way to stop bad behavior is simply to ignore it. Paying attention may be just what the child is angling for.

dhacker,

I am afraid you mistake my stab at humor. I can understand both why one would bring a child into coach/business/first, and exactly why one sitting in coach/business/first might not enjoy said experience (or with any other individual exhibiting behaviors generally defined as imposing).

Do I have any children? No. But I have enough close friends who do, and I find myself in situations whith their children often enought to realize that you are dealing with individuals, no matter how old or young, who will sometimes act on their own volition.

So what's the answer? Like everything else in life, whether love, work, amusement, education or basic socialization, the only thing one can count on is that situations will arise where one's patiences are tried.

Its how one reacts that is relevant, as that manifestation is what ultimately determines the final experience. And here again, whether on the giving end or the receiving end, you and the other individuals involved are oddy entwined, as there is no outcome except the one mutually derived.

How you evaluate, remember and are impacted by that experience is yours. Only you can make a positive out of a positive, neutral or negative experience.

As luck would have it, I am usually assigned a seat in the crying baby section wether in Coach or First. I realize that kids have just as much right as the next person. From a parents point of view.....In F, there is more room to take care of the kid and the FAs only have a handful of passengers to take care of leaving more time for "personalized service" for the kid. If the kid is too noisy, I put on the head phones and tune it out. What I can't stand is the kid who kicks the back of my seat while the parent does nothing. Regardless, kids generally aren't a problem for me and if they are, so be it. I don't let it get to me...I have more things to worry about than a cranky kid. GO KIDS!

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH SPIDER!!!!

Leave the little brats who can't behave in public at home! The other kids, who are well behaved, can come along any time. But, the real fault lies with the parents. You know your children well enough to know if they will behave or not. If not, leave them at home.

Yes, I suppose you do have a "right" to have your child sit in first class. But, you should also have the "respect" not to allow it -- just as you would probably not allow some screaming demon to disrupt a five-star restaurant, an opera or a movie. It's all about having class.

I have gotten in to some pretty heated exchanges with parents who do NOTHING to shut their screamer up. I understand the kids are going to cry sometimes. But, when he or she is wailing endlessly and the parent does nothing about it (some don't even seem to notice!), that's when I speak up.

If any airline began child-free flights, I would fly them EXCLUSIVELY. If we can't have that, I say relegate them to the back - way in the back!

The rest of BoSoxFan45's message was so reasonable that I almost couldn't bring myself to take issue with this small portion of it. However: A crying child in Y will ruin the trips of more people than the same child will if crying in F. The child crying in F will ruin the trips of people with more expensive tickets, but not as many people as in Y, and which is not the same as "ruining everyone else's trip."

I would like to fly without children, except my own perfect but untested 2-year-old, but that's not possible nor socially desirable. Sure, I would love to have the airline "do something about" crying children, but what? What can the airline do that the parent can't? Also airlines don't do much about loud, rude, and drunk adults (who should know better and who could have controlled themselves).

I first flew at age 7 (F class transcon), and I was a perfect passenger the entire flight, except for throwing up over Wyoming. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif