Biggest Ever Card Purchase + Maths
Jan 25, 2001, 10:00 am
#46
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 299
And a few years later, I went with her to have the car serviced and noticed a discreet sign that "charge cards accepted for parts and service only." Yes, I'm sure they lost money on us.
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Craig
Jan 25, 2001, 10:03 am
#47
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 299
This is not correct as to Visa, MC, and probably the other major card brands. Merchants are not allowed to "surcharge
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Craig
Jan 25, 2001, 10:07 am
#48
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 299
Prior to presenting the card, I had obtained a letter from Visa International stating that refusal to accept a Visa card by a merchant is a contravention of their agreement. Although most attempt to, a merchant cannot limit acceptance of the card. You either accept it or you dont. When in doubt they should read their agreement with Visa/Mastercard.
Banks in the US are not governed by Visa International. They are governed by Visa USA.
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Craig
Jan 25, 2001, 10:11 am
#49
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 299
Originally posted by bokich:
My guess is that although you wouldn't see it, you'd still end up paying the credit card service fee, it would simply be hidden in the final price you pay for the car. You probably could have negotiated them down further - however they held firm if they knew they were on the hook for $xxxx in credit card service fees.
My guess is that although you wouldn't see it, you'd still end up paying the credit card service fee, it would simply be hidden in the final price you pay for the car. You probably could have negotiated them down further - however they held firm if they knew they were on the hook for $xxxx in credit card service fees.
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Craig
Jan 25, 2001, 10:54 am
#50
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That is true as a general rule, but there are exceptions -- taxis in some countries, for example, where merchants are quite specifically allowed by the credit or charge card organisation to add a surcharge.
There is a sign next to it, just as large, saying "VISA cards are not accepted by this cab", as I understand VISA refused them OK for the 10% surcharge. Went on right thru Olympics, and as the sponsonship thing is a big deal that would have p!ssed off VISA methinks - who were an anchor sponsor.
In fact rhe ONLY card you could place Olympic ticket purchases on (some were $1000s) was VISA.
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~ Glen ~
Jan 25, 2001, 4:17 pm
#51
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You should not. In fact, the only thing the salesman and the manager should know is that you can afford the car and that you are a serious buyer. As long as you don't make too good a deal, you should spring the card on the finance person, who was going to try and finance you through the dealership. They will probably cry foul (or certainly howl) and may decide not to honor the deal. You can offer to split the transaction fees with them if you think the mileage/points is worth it. If nothing else, you can probably get a better rate on the dealership financing by threatening to walk and tell the media about the dealership that doesn't honor its deals...
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"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Originally posted by Craig:
Why would you discuss how you would pay for a car before you'd negotiated the price of same?
Why would you discuss how you would pay for a car before you'd negotiated the price of same?
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"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Jan 25, 2001, 7:19 pm
#52
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,312
This is close to how it works in the US, but not quite ...
You can't charge a surcharge for credit cards, but you can offer a discount for cash.
In some adverts, the discounted cash price is advertised, but if they do that, they always say so in the fine print, something like: advertised price is cash price only. Credit price slightly higher.
It's just a matter of semantics, really. As a merchant, we were not allowed to charge a surcharge, but we could offer a discount. Incidentally, we didn't take Amex or Discover. For us, the fees were slightly higher for these other cards and it wasn't worth it for the type of business we had.
-David
Jan 25, 2001, 7:40 pm
#53
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Spiff .. I will speculate here that NO car dealer on earth selling a new vehicle is going to let 3% abort a sale!
On $20K that is $600.
Here merchants on high ticket items like cars get down to 1.5% on Visa and M/Card, so that is $300. We all at the last momeent nearly all will sign only if they "throw in" factory mudflaps, mats, CD player, side striping, or whatever, and this is the last "stinger' to inflict on the salesman. A few $100 is not going to see him let you walk away. He just won't toss in that CD player.
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~ Glen ~
On $20K that is $600.
Here merchants on high ticket items like cars get down to 1.5% on Visa and M/Card, so that is $300. We all at the last momeent nearly all will sign only if they "throw in" factory mudflaps, mats, CD player, side striping, or whatever, and this is the last "stinger' to inflict on the salesman. A few $100 is not going to see him let you walk away. He just won't toss in that CD player.
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~ Glen ~
Jan 26, 2001, 10:19 pm
#54
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong & Santa Fe, NM AA EXP; HY DIAM
Posts: 188
ozstamps,
don't know how it works down under, but in the States, a lot of dealerships can be negotiated down to margins under 5% after dealer holdbacks, rebates, etc., etc., so the 3% can potentially be a big chunk of their profits. Of course, this is predicated on being a sophisticated buyer.
For the buyer who hasn't done his homework, you're probably right.
don't know how it works down under, but in the States, a lot of dealerships can be negotiated down to margins under 5% after dealer holdbacks, rebates, etc., etc., so the 3% can potentially be a big chunk of their profits. Of course, this is predicated on being a sophisticated buyer.
For the buyer who hasn't done his homework, you're probably right.
Jan 27, 2001, 7:02 am
#55
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 45
Originally posted by BoSoxFan45:
I wonder if I could do this with my red Sox season tickets. Just $4000, but that's $4000 miles. They take visa/MC/Amex for regular tickets, but not for season tickets. Think I could press them on this?
I wonder if I could do this with my red Sox season tickets. Just $4000, but that's $4000 miles. They take visa/MC/Amex for regular tickets, but not for season tickets. Think I could press them on this?
I think I would call them and ask them to join the new millenium. Accepting cards for single game purchases and then not accepting them for larger season ticket type transactions is ludicrous.
Falcon56
Jan 27, 2001, 9:25 am
#56
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In my industry, the trade show business, there are many opportunities to rack up many, many points and miles. So many in fact that some trade show exhibit managers or special events coordinators, seriously consider their ability to earn personal miles and points as a major point in selecting a position.
For instance, they often charge all of their shipping, drayage*, and labor fees to their own AMEX card. These figures can easily exceed $100,000.00 per show for a major exhibit.
Additionally, trade shows by their very nature require travel, sometimes for fairly large groups of people. Often the trade show manager will make the whole block of hotels rooms for his/her company and can pay for them all on his/her own credit card, or cause the purchase of all the airline tickets to go to his or her personal AMEX.
Then, there are coporate meetings. Negotiating for personal perks with a hotel manager when arranging a coporate meeting, has for some become an art form in and of itself. Here again, all of the points and miles are going directly to the account of the meeting planner. 100 rooms for 3 nights, plus all the catering = $$$$$$.
Of course, there are many large companies with government contracts, that forbid the personal accumulation of points and miles from business transactions, but there are also those (frequently the free-wheeling dot.coms) who encourage this practice as a method of wooing top talent to their companies.
So for all you young adventurers out there who are looking for a way to rack up huge number of miles and points and aren't of the ilk to start your own business (another path to big numbers in the miles and points department), don't overlook the trade show industry. Of course, you will like to have to work very, very hard under a great deal of pressure without a great deal of sleep to enjoy this work.
For those not familiar with this arcane argot:
*drayage: is all the movement of trade show freight from the time it hits the dock at a show until it leaves the dock at the show. This includes moving crates from the dock to the booth space for setup, then moving the empty crates from the booth space into storage durin the show, then from storage back to the booth space for teardown and repack, and then back to the dock for shipment. Just in case you were curious.
For instance, they often charge all of their shipping, drayage*, and labor fees to their own AMEX card. These figures can easily exceed $100,000.00 per show for a major exhibit.
Additionally, trade shows by their very nature require travel, sometimes for fairly large groups of people. Often the trade show manager will make the whole block of hotels rooms for his/her company and can pay for them all on his/her own credit card, or cause the purchase of all the airline tickets to go to his or her personal AMEX.
Then, there are coporate meetings. Negotiating for personal perks with a hotel manager when arranging a coporate meeting, has for some become an art form in and of itself. Here again, all of the points and miles are going directly to the account of the meeting planner. 100 rooms for 3 nights, plus all the catering = $$$$$$.
Of course, there are many large companies with government contracts, that forbid the personal accumulation of points and miles from business transactions, but there are also those (frequently the free-wheeling dot.coms) who encourage this practice as a method of wooing top talent to their companies.
So for all you young adventurers out there who are looking for a way to rack up huge number of miles and points and aren't of the ilk to start your own business (another path to big numbers in the miles and points department), don't overlook the trade show industry. Of course, you will like to have to work very, very hard under a great deal of pressure without a great deal of sleep to enjoy this work.
For those not familiar with this arcane argot:
*drayage: is all the movement of trade show freight from the time it hits the dock at a show until it leaves the dock at the show. This includes moving crates from the dock to the booth space for setup, then moving the empty crates from the booth space into storage durin the show, then from storage back to the booth space for teardown and repack, and then back to the dock for shipment. Just in case you were curious.
Jan 27, 2001, 12:17 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: new brunswick, new jersey and farmington, conn. USA
Posts: 615
Well, even lowly little me bought a car on my Amex for the mileage. Nice little 1998...um, Dodge Caravan.
Don't hate me because i drive a minivan. Hate me for the sweet deal and the 12.5k miles i got for it.
Don't hate me because i drive a minivan. Hate me for the sweet deal and the 12.5k miles i got for it.
Jan 27, 2001, 8:12 pm
#58
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: ny,ny
Posts: 396
went to jamaica a few weeks ago for the weekend.. on the literature they sent me they said there was a 5% fee added to your final bill if you wanted to settle up your bar bill and tip by credit card.. being the good consumer that i am i called up Citibank and asked them whether this was proper and whether they would make any concessions for one of their platinum card holders.. nope i was told.. they can do pretty much anything they want to once they are outside of the united states..
Jan 27, 2001, 8:46 pm
#59
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I am a sales manager for a high end exotic car dealership.
In the past I have, and will continue, to refuse a credit card for "full" payment if it has not been formally discussed in advance of the transaction.
2.75 to Amex is a lot of money on a $150,000 vehicle....and they also take 90 days to pay. The cardholder can also refuse the charge should a dispute arise after delivery. The same applies to Visa and MC.
The company where I work pays out approximately $18-20,000 per month in C/C discount fees to Amex and Visa.........they are not about to cancel our merchant agreement because someone is upset that I won't accept their card for a large amount.
[This message has been edited by Carioca Canuck (edited 01-27-2001).]
Jan 27, 2001, 9:52 pm
#60
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Carioca ... well you better toss in that "free" CD player then! BTW what happened to you in RIO for NYE??? Speaking of VISA card bills, just got mine for last month.
I flew out of Brazil on Jan 4th. From Jan 10 to date there were FOUR PAGES of closely typed charges, all in Rio made to my card. About $20,000 in total, as I have a very high credit limit. No idea how it occured, and masses of diff. businesses there involved, even quite a few big hits at Wal Mart there. Gas stations, beauty salons etc. First time this ever happened to me and sounds like a mess clearing it up. I had 2 copies of that Gold card and lost or had one stolen, and have not noticed until now. Hope I am not liable? All future use stopped now of course and new card on way.
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~ Glen ~
I flew out of Brazil on Jan 4th. From Jan 10 to date there were FOUR PAGES of closely typed charges, all in Rio made to my card. About $20,000 in total, as I have a very high credit limit. No idea how it occured, and masses of diff. businesses there involved, even quite a few big hits at Wal Mart there. Gas stations, beauty salons etc. First time this ever happened to me and sounds like a mess clearing it up. I had 2 copies of that Gold card and lost or had one stolen, and have not noticed until now. Hope I am not liable? All future use stopped now of course and new card on way.
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~ Glen ~