WN Abandoning SFO
Jan 22, 2001 | 11:05 pm
#1
Original Poster
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 42,563
WN Abandoning SFO
After getting fed up with the ontime performance and all the myriad of problems at SFO, WN is pulling out. Don't have any particular details, such as when, and where all the "removed" flights are going, but OAK and SJC would be the safe bet. Was on tonight's news.
Jan 22, 2001 | 11:08 pm
#2
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Santa Cruz, CA USA
Programs: AA, UA, WN, HH, Marriott
Posts: 7,293
Southwest will operate flights at SFO through March 4.
http://www.southwest.com/press/prindex.html
[This message has been edited by JerryFF (edited 01-22-2001).]
http://www.southwest.com/press/prindex.html
[This message has been edited by JerryFF (edited 01-22-2001).]
Jan 22, 2001 | 11:59 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, 1.7MM, & RC of an AA employee, Marriott Ambassador, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 896
I hope this is a wake up call to the SFO airport. They MUST restructure the runways.
Now they have airlines leaving the airport! WN is not large at SFO but it is still a statement.
Now they have airlines leaving the airport! WN is not large at SFO but it is still a statement.
Jan 23, 2001 | 6:01 am
#4
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AUS
Programs: DL Flying Colonel
Posts: 4,027
This indeed should be a wake up call for the airport. WN also had gate arguements with FLL and moved a good portion of their flights to WPB. Airports have not figured out that the game is changing again, they are now a part of compition, where as before, they called most of the shots. BWI has had very good management in the past, and look how they have grown. There is a new team in place at BWI now and it will be interesting to see if they can continue to attract new flights and airlines v scaring them away like San Fran.
Jan 23, 2001 | 7:31 am
#5
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 58,132
It might serve as a wake-up call for SFO, but look for the other airlines to gouge travelers even more there. 
------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Jan 23, 2001 | 9:37 am
#7
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVP Gold, AA Life Plat, Marriott Life Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, Hilton/Hyatt Diamond, Radisson Gold
Posts: 137
Well, remember that SFO wants to restructure its runways. But there's no place for it to expand. Except into San Francisco Bay...
That's the plan being pursued currently, but any fill of the bay is an environmentally sensitive issue. New landfill is prohibited by law, and getting special permission to expand SFO into the bay is going to be a long, tedious process with lots of opposition. Don't expect resolution of this problem for many years.
That's the plan being pursued currently, but any fill of the bay is an environmentally sensitive issue. New landfill is prohibited by law, and getting special permission to expand SFO into the bay is going to be a long, tedious process with lots of opposition. Don't expect resolution of this problem for many years.
Jan 23, 2001 | 9:59 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP/4MM, QF PLT, Marriott PLT
Posts: 1,425
There may be other reasons that WN is pulling out -- my speculation would be that they still don't have CAT II / CAT III qualified crews & aircraft, which greatly simplifies their scheduling & maintenance & dramatically reduces their costs.
Given that SFO is fogged in much of the time, it's probably very difficult for WN to keep the tight turnarounds that they need, especially if they need for the clouds to lift before they can get in.
This was definitely the case when I lived next to SFO a couple of years ago -- UA Sh*ttle was able to get in and out when WN was grounded.
------------------
My Aviation Pages
My Travel Pages
Given that SFO is fogged in much of the time, it's probably very difficult for WN to keep the tight turnarounds that they need, especially if they need for the clouds to lift before they can get in.
This was definitely the case when I lived next to SFO a couple of years ago -- UA Sh*ttle was able to get in and out when WN was grounded.
------------------
My Aviation Pages
My Travel Pages
Jan 23, 2001 | 4:28 pm
#10
Senior Moderator; Moderator, Flyertalk Cares
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Fulltime travel/mostly Europe
Programs: UA 1.7 MM;; Accor & Marriott Pt; Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 17,927
bollar: Don't think it's a CAT II/III issue. I think WN's planes are CAT II equipped and SFO is very seldom at CAT III. Besides, the problem at SFO is not so much low minimums for the approaches, but reduced arrival rates any time the weather is less than VFR.
Additionally, if you look at DOT stats, WN tends to have a higher percentage of on-time arrivals than most all other carriers at SFO.
[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 01-23-2001).]
Additionally, if you look at DOT stats, WN tends to have a higher percentage of on-time arrivals than most all other carriers at SFO.
[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 01-23-2001).]
Jan 23, 2001 | 4:40 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,190
WN's own statement was quite clear: they can make more money with less hassle by flying those aircraft on other routes. SFO is also a hub airport, beyond receiving tourists into the city, it feeds many more connecting travellers through to/from Pacifc destinations. WN is a purely point-to-point mover of travellers. It figures service to the Bay area can be just as well provided into Oakland and San Jos without putting up with all these SFO problems. It's economics nd nothing more.
Jan 23, 2001 | 4:54 pm
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: GSP (Greenville, SC)
Programs: DL Gold Medallion; UA Premier Executive; WN sub-CP; AA sub-Gold
Posts: 13,393
Originally posted by letiole:
... Additionally, if you look at DOT stats, WN tends to have a higher percentage of on-time arrivals than most all other carriers at SFO.
... Additionally, if you look at DOT stats, WN tends to have a higher percentage of on-time arrivals than most all other carriers at SFO.
Jan 23, 2001 | 6:59 pm
#13
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Fairlawn, Ohio, USA
Posts: 292
If a "hub" airport is such a factor, consider this:
Why is WN flying into LAX? LAX is notorious for delays and is a busier facility than SFO. Between SFO and LAX, I am sure that those airports cause a lot of grief to WN for their on-time performance. Fortunately for WN, they do not have a lot of flights into SFO. When I fly into the Bay Area on WN, I always go through OAK. It is always an easier and painless BART ride into The City from there. Also, I really like going through OAK...less hassles.
Why is WN flying into LAX? LAX is notorious for delays and is a busier facility than SFO. Between SFO and LAX, I am sure that those airports cause a lot of grief to WN for their on-time performance. Fortunately for WN, they do not have a lot of flights into SFO. When I fly into the Bay Area on WN, I always go through OAK. It is always an easier and painless BART ride into The City from there. Also, I really like going through OAK...less hassles.
Jan 23, 2001 | 7:05 pm
#14
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Fairlawn, Ohio, USA
Posts: 292
If a "hub" airport is such a factor, consider this:
Why is WN flying into LAX? LAX is notorious for delays and is a busier facility than SFO. Between SFO and LAX, I am sure that those airports cause a lot of grief to WN for their on-time performance. Fortunately for WN, they do not have a lot of flights into SFO. When I fly into the Bay Area on WN, I always go through OAK. It is always an easier and painless BART ride into The City from there. Also, I really like going through OAK...less hassles.
Why is WN flying into LAX? LAX is notorious for delays and is a busier facility than SFO. Between SFO and LAX, I am sure that those airports cause a lot of grief to WN for their on-time performance. Fortunately for WN, they do not have a lot of flights into SFO. When I fly into the Bay Area on WN, I always go through OAK. It is always an easier and painless BART ride into The City from there. Also, I really like going through OAK...less hassles.