Is this THE trend? Is so, it "ain't" good!
 

Is this THE trend? If so, it "ain't" good! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Imagine that along with the specials for the week is included another note detailing another "improvement" to your FF program -

You read "Please Note: Effective immediately, CyberSavers and E-fares will no longer accrue as credit for elite status miles nor will they be eligible for ........ Airlines mileage credit."

Sound crazy? Well, as indicated in my email from NWA last night and promptly noted by Wiirachy/Pat & NW,CO,TW only:

"Please Note: Effective October 4, 2000, CyberSavers and CyberSavers Extra! fares will not be eligible for WorldPerks mileage credit."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum35/HTML/000831.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum35/HTML/000832.html

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NWA FF's had a less than restful night thinking about lost mileage opportunites and lost status too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

You now need to pay to play - and yet NWA wants us to book online! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

If this is a trend, it is NOT good- to say the least! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

By analogy, (though admittedly a bit far fetched), if you deposit your check in the bank by using the ATM rather than a teller, are you still elible to accrue interest on the deposited funds? C'mon! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

What can we do about it? Write NWA? http://www.nwa.com/talk/

Anything else? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-04-2000).]

They weren't kidding when they said Unbelievable as in "Unbelievable Travel Deals With CyberSavers and CyberSavers Extra!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

After seeing that this morning I'm no longer straddling the fence. NW just lost my business. I was trying to decide on AA or NW for my milage runs and status for next year. Thanks NW for making the decision easier.

Freefaller12k

I thought not getting the online booking for them on some airlines was bad enough. They would have to very steeply discount the fares for me to fly without getting any miles.

Definitely, this is a bad trend http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

FWIW, if interested -

Send Us Your Comments

We at Northwest Airlines appreciate and value your comments. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
http://www.nwa.com/talk/

Perhaps we should email them the entire link/tread when completed! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Hopefully they'll read it! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

And maybe respond too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

I URGE all FTers to immediately use the link to e-mail NW to get them to stop this horrendous decision. I don't fly NW that often, but we have to nip this in the bud before it snowballs and the airlines all pull the FF credit from their e-saver type fares. FTers UNITE!! Flood them with mail!!

Djlawman

Good idea Djlawman - I just wrote to them. I akso mentioned that this makes me less likely to use NW and more likely to use Priceline.

I agree it would be awful to lose miles for same-week netfares. I am a UA flyer and their netfares from Seattle are so awful or rare that I have yet to use one. Still, one of the comments above causes me to ponder. If the choice of airline is based on ability to make 'mileage runs for status' on a carrier via netfares then it might actually be a good move for the airline to give up that business. (I am not commenting on whatever other business may be lost). Cutting out the lowest of the low revenue generator elites may be what they are out there to do.

There has been a huge amount of discussion on the boards under various headings about 'mileage runs' and how easy/cheap elite can be had. Is this healthy in the long run for elite level in general? Are the airlines paying any attention to this? Is it self defeating to prattle and brag on this venue about how easily/cheaply it is to get elite status? I think at least those questions are worth serious thought.

Sure, I have a position to defend. As a 1K/million I don't want to see my status diluted too badly. But generally I also do see a negative impact ultra-low revenue elites on programs in a broad way. I have sometimes used an annual mileage run, or an out-of-the-way connection, to retain status. I'm not sure status built entirely/almost entirely on 'mileage runs' is healthy if it becomes a significant trend. If I were an airline, and I am glad I am not in that business, I wouldn't lose any sleep over giving up that segment of my market.

It's my 'pet' issue right now but the more I observe the board over the past six months or so, the more I wonder about the impact of the very aggressive mileage mongers on FF programs (in general) now that there is a venue to disseminate those ideas rapidly and fairly broadly. Particularly those who trumpet so loudly and/or make advantage of the promotions/rules so greatly. It is going to be very interesting to observe over the coming months whether this generates much of a reaction from the airlines/FF programs. I am not saying it will or will not, nor am I expressing a moral judgement about anyone here, just that the dynamic interests me.



[This message has been edited by myriad (edited 10-04-2000).]

Bold statement PG!!

For me, Priceline ranks somewhere below driving and above Greyhound.

doc,

I also believe that AS has similiar rules on certain deeply discounted internet fares.

Seems to me they are trying to target this towards consumers that do not fly frequently and that are not concerned with miles.

NWA must feel that the majority of FF are biz travelers who aren't concerned with travel costs.

Very interesting post myriad, and lots of food for thought. I had similar feelings too about mileage runs. Not only are there mileage runs, some folks who take mileage runs are themselves asking for the bar for elite status to be raised. I could probably justifying taking an extra trip or two (and have once done it myself) to get to the next tier. But when your entire year's planning is done around mileage runs, I say it has gotten out of hand.

And these days some airlines are throwing extra miles and extra upgrade coupons, while reducing service and raising mileage needed for certain awards. QL posted his disappointing experience with a United first class award. But when we are being innundated with extra miles and upgrade coupons, there are two logical conclusions - 1) service will go down and 2) more miles will be chasing the same number of awards a perfect recipe for mileage inflation.

This has to stop....they should call NWA the no WorldPerks airline. Call your travel office and tell them not to book you on NWA! I just sent them an e mail letting them know that if they go through with this we/our company will not fly with them, only unless we have to. I also will sent an e mail to all my friends and company contacts to do the same. No miles + no business = no customers....that is for sure.

I just got off the phone with elite reservations trying to book a late October trip MSP to LGW. When I asked the agent to check on the cost of fares eligible to upgrade, she fiddled around for a few minutes with no luck and then said, "Well, only full coach fairs can upgrade." She was unwilling to quote an accurate fare saying, "Well, it would be around $4,000." She was unwilling to check alternative routing through DTW or AMS
saying, "Well, it would be the same price." I am really wondering how I am going to be able to use the more than 200,000 miles that I have banked. Domestic upgrades have been great as gold elite (soon to be platinum after my China trip), but it seems virtually impossible to upgrade internationally anymore. Is CO any better about international upgrades from other than full coach fares? What are my chances of upgrading on CO transatlantic with NW miles?

Esteban

I don't fly NW much, but count me in on communicating my displeasure with this change. Don't want this particular internet "virus" to spread to other airlines!

Mileage runs, or just last minute opportunities for trips, without FF credit, there will be NO CyberSaver flights taken by me unless it's an absolute emergency and there are no other options besides a full-Y walk-up fare. Better rethink this one, NW.

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Time..... is on my side.

That's exactly what NWA (or any airline) would like to do.

You want to fly at the last minute? Cough it up!

You want to fly three weeks from now and stay over Saturday night (i.e., you're price sensitive)? We've got a deal for you!


That is, Internet fares are already saving you money for the same itinerary (assuming only published fares exist). Why should the airline give you miles in addition to a fare discount?

Response from NWA asking if you can still earn OnePass miles on these fares:

Thank you for contacting Northwest Airlines Online Support.

Unfortunately Northwest Cybersavers are not eligible for Continental Onepass miles.

If you have not already taken advantage of our NWA.com club program and its many benefits, don't wait any longer! Enroll today at http://www.nwa.com/club!

Sincerely,

NWA Online Support WWW.NWA.COM

JS, thats the point- exactly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Need we pay a full Y for mileage credit now? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Or does that come next month? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Look at it this way: the "real" ticket price is the dollars paid minus "value" of miles credited (unfortunately "value" is not a fixed number).

For example, assuming a value of 2 cents per FF mile, the following two fares are exactly the same:

A to B r/t of 2000 miles each way

published fare $320
4000 miles credited = $80

OR

Internet special fare $240
and NO miles

So then we agree that the "real" ticket price has gone up! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

So does this mean that OnePass Elites can no longer upgrade or earn miles on Continental E-Fares, in addition to Northwest CyberFares.

Similarly, Northwest Elite members can not upgrade or earn miles on NW CyberFares, in addition to Continental E-Fares?

I just sent a letter to NW. Too bad MJW isn't here. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Count me in.

I have informed my company travel agent to no longer book me on NWA even if it means that I can no longer fly direct! (hey, that means more segments on another airline, probably AA for me!)

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I wish I were 1,000 miles away

Because unless it's an emergency and NW is my *only* option, I am doing THEM a favor by filling up their under-utilized aircraft!

"You can't sell yesterday's empty seat."



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Time..... is on my side.

I would say it's an even trade. They get something for a seat that likely would have gone empty, and you get to save money.

The purpose of FF miles is to reward you for loyalty. Loyalty, which means always flying the same airline, implies you don't care what the fare is. Booking an Internet fare implies you DO care what the fare is! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by JS (edited 10-04-2000).]

And IMHO, FWIW, "loyalty" connotes, if not denotes, that you do NOT routinely change the rules- particularly with little or NO advance notice! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

But hey, it's NWA, and its their definition that matters here I suppose! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

It's a bold move by Northwest which as a frequent flier I would despise. Several airlines don't allow upgrades on e-fares -- I despise that too. My airline of choice treats e-savers like anything else and that's great with me -- it help keeps it my airline of choice. But then again mile per dollar value is not that great on most e-fares on this airline -- maybe Northwest read of too many people going to China and turning around and coming back just for the miles http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Already consolidator fares and the like don't earn miles... already AA gives varying points based on fare... as long as demand is high for airline travel airlines are going to find more ways to @#%@#% the frugal traveller.

The odd thing is that buying your tickets on-line is the absolute cheapest way they can sell you a ticket they pay no commission to a travel agent and can theoretically hire fewer reservationists if they have a larger percentage of on-line sales. They should really ENCOURAGE on-line sales by giving a mileage bonus!

Esteban:
International upgrade on CO? Good luck!

This remains one of the very few upgrade complaints with CO.

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. They get something for a seat that would have gone empty, but chances are that I'm taking a trip I wouldn't have normally taken. It's bad enough that these CyberSavers are heavily restricted. No FF credit makes them totally unappealing unless it's an emergency.

FF programs are indeed supposed to reward loyalty. That does not mean I will always pay the asking price, however, unless I am a company with a negotiated contract. As an individual, I need incentives to remain loyal, as I am not an NWAC shareholder. If I am loyal to price only, then I fly Southwest (or some discount airline) all the time, if possible, and be done with it. However, most people loyal to an FF program will be willing to sacrifice a little (usually $$$ or time/connections) to be loyal to their program. By removing the incentive of FF miles, NW is really telling its CyberSaver patrons that they should be flying some discount carrier all the time, or at the very least, they should be flying Southwest.



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Time..... is on my side.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif And we UA loyalists thought the Summer of Hell was bad ... You NWA'ers have my sympathy. Honestly.

That's exactly right. NWA does give a first time bonus of 4,000 miles. AS has a 1,000 web purchase bonus that goes to 500 in 1/01.

While FF miles should be awarded for loyalty or to keep you loyal, the real purpose of FF programs is to create a huge marketing mechanism for the airlines. It looks like the marketing guys have lost it.

I have also sent an e-mail to Northwest about this. IMHO, they have just reclaimed the title of "America's Worst Major Airline" from United due to this misguided new policy.

While I do respect the opposing viewpoint on this issue, the bottom line is that if this policy is not curtailed at NW, by the end of the month we could be looking at ALL major airlines copying this policy. And not meaning to sound like an alarmist, I doubt that such action would not be too distant in the making for denying mileage to the lowest-fare classes of published fares. Who knows??? They might put that policy on us just in time for the Thanksgiving mileage runs...



[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 10-04-2000).]

Don't count United out yet, though on a slightly different topic.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/003198.html

Seems some of the bean counters are trying to squeeze blood from a turnip over there as well.

I urge everyone on flyertalk to send an e-mail to Northwest Airlines to protest their removal of WorldPerks mileage credit from their cybersaver and e-fares.

We all know how the major airlines operate, just like sheep. You can bet they will all try to herd in this direction. We should LOUDLY and immediately respond and maybe NWA will reconsider.

Remember, doing nothing will tell them that you think this is OK! DON'T SLEEP ON THIS!!!!!!!!

Mac

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Via con Dios!

I have fired off a note to WorldPerks expressing my displeasure and my intention to unsubscribe from NWA's CyberSaver mailings. I did that too!

Just send my comment to Northwest through email.

Sent an e mail and faxed. We need to get Randy in on this one. We also need to rally the troops...here is the gold/plat fax # 800-692-4653. Got it off another thread in NW board from a pretty upset ex NW customer.

In response to my email:
_______________________________________
Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting Northwest Airlines regarding your
disappointment with not being able to accumulate WorldPerks miles on
Cyberfares. I understand your frustration with our new policy.

We realize the reason consumer's purchase Cybersaver fares are due to
the attractive price points associated with this product. However, in
order to maintain our ability to offer bargain fares, we found it
necessary to eliminate the eligibility for miles on these types of
fares. Although Cybersaver fares will no longer be eligible for
mileage, nor elite qualification, please note this does not apply to all
fares booked through our website.

I have forwarded your comments to our executives in our WorldPerks
department for their internal review.

Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback. We need to hear
from our WorldPerks members--especially when there is a problem. Our
customers are important to us. I hope that someday your travel plans
will include Northwest Airlines and that we will have an opportunity to
restore your confidence.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX
Supervisor, Customer Relations
Northwest/KLM Airlines
______________________________________

Looks like a form letter, but let's hope enough people complain loud enough for them to listen.

Additionally, I followed up with a response.

Freefaller12k

[This message has been edited by freefaller12k (edited 10-05-2000).]