Thanksgiving (along with St. Patrick’s Day) is one of the two days per year that I cook. So, with all the defrosting and having to clean out the Weber, I haven’t seen the all the recent hoopla. Has it occurred to this electronic assemblage that FQTV is just engaging in the time-honored tradition of satire, and that he is just commenting on the level of non-content driven material on the board. And as one of the rabid “non-contenters” (i.e., theme song, humiliation, where would you like to be born?, crime and punishment: Sweet Pea, Quitelion contest, Churchill my Century and me, etc.) I bow to a master.

Looking around other related threads, some are crying, “boo hoo”, Randy doesn’t care, he won’t get involved, he doesn’t love us, he didn’t come to my party. Hey, lighten up! Randy is not the policeman to the world. Me thinks that Randy is running a business, and the hundred grand or so that he must spend maintaining this Board is quite sufficient, thank you. Many of us are in very adversarial, perhaps even high-powered positions. It is a constant wonderment to me that it doesn’t take much to get our collective panties in a knot (Rudi: this should translate literally).

And if I’m wrong, if FQTV isn’t about satire. SO WHAT. Who cares? I’ve just moved him down a level toward oblivion.

BTW, I’m thankful that I’m not traveling or anywhere near an airport this Thanksgiving.

Jailer, I was actually thinking the same thing. And this was a tactic I once even considered myself in order to prove (after much frustration trying to convey my opinion by civil debate) what would happen if more than one FlyerTalker decided to post whatever large quantities of non-travel related stuff they wanted to with reckless abandon and without consideration of others or any degree of self-control.

I've always said that some non-travel related stuff is good and helps us see and understand the personalities of the various members, as well as help develop a Community Spirit. But if someone goes too far and just starts posting huge quantities of whatever they want, it can become a bad thing.

While I knew I could do it within the TOS of FlyerTalk (after all, there is no rule that says posts have to be travel related or in the proper catagory), I made the decision not to, for the benefit of "innocent bystanders" and instead continued the civil debate in order to attempt to get my point across.

I can't tell from FQTV's posts if he/she is attempting to say "I can post anything I want, period." or if it's more "Look what happens when someone decides they can post large quantities of anything they want." Or a combination of both.

I think I've missed a thread somewhere "that started it all."

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 11-23-2000).]

Thank You to both of you. I think that Jailer and Premex have summed up my feelings about both FQTV's recent posting and "Compulsive Posting".

Premex has my written my thoughts exactly! I have often thought about spending a day or two "Carpet Bombing" various forums with "Useless" threads, but decided against the idea.

The debate over "Compulsive Posting" always includes the "Just Ignore Them" suggestion. I think FQTV has helped point out how flawed that theory is, considering how bad this will become if we gain more "Compulsive Posters"!

Just my 2 Cents.

Sorry Jailer, Premex and CameraGuy, I cannot agree with you. As far as I am concerned, the response in the following thread is not "Satire".
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003721.html

I share a concern about compulsive posting, but I do not think this is the way to solve the problem.

Djlawman

DJlawman, I’m wondering if this is another case of the cure being worse than the disease. I know that your intentions are pure and honorable, but by bringing up old threads simply to bury other threads, the usefulness of the Board starts to vanish. When a thread is on top, I like to think that there has been something topical, insightful or humorous added. I can easily skip FQTV posts if I wish, but now there’s really no point to open anything because it’s likely to be just a blocking maneuver.

[This message has been edited by Jailer (edited 11-24-2000).]

I'm sorry to say this as it is not very constructive, but can anyone really be suprised by the dross which is being posted on this board at the moment? The rot set in over a year ago with the grand ambitions of community (I know you are tired of my saying this).

This board used to be about miles. For my part I used to go through my post every time I got home and post all the promotions I had received which I hadn't read about elsewhere on this board. I don't bother anymore, the collection of miles has become secondary to self congratulations; general travel chat; travel reviews etc etc. The reason we had a community on this board is that we shared a common interest, that interest is now diluted to such an extent that things are falling apart.

In my view the credibility of this board has gone.

I think there are alot of people out there who like me not longer care about 'whole' board or 'community', they just stick to their own little patch - in my case the BA thread with occassional jaunts to Lufthansa ad Qualiflyer and very occassional some others...

I don't know what FQTV is doing and quite frankly I don't care. If his point is this board is filling up with dross, I agree with him.

I have said it many times, but once more won't hurt: get ride of all the none FFP threads (community, trip report etc) and talk about miles, OR accept that you are inviting contributers to talk about any subject they like.

In my view FQTV has done us a favour, I don't know if it was his intention, but at least he has woken some of us up to the fact that the majority of posts on this board have no relation to the collection of miles.

I think it is time some decisions were made and some action was taken before the rot goes any further. Again, as I have said before, this board is loosing credibility and that can't be good for Randy's business. Randy may not be the 'policeman of the world', but in my view his decision to expand this board (however well intentioned) started the problems and he is the only one who can put it right.

[I don't like to say I told you so, but I am sure someone will be able to drag up some links to where I predicted this over a year ago]

Nick

cameraguy wrote
I say, "Just Ignore Them" is the only way to deal with this at the "end of the day."

I can't speak for FQTV, I've read some of his earlier posts and I can't say they are all bad.

But in general, these people come and go. They will tire of their games and leave if we do "just ignore them."

Since this is (thankfully) an unmoderated forum,

there is nothing we can do about these "compulsive posters." NOTHING!

Except ignore them and move on. Get what you can out of FT. Ignore the rest.

I don't pay attention to forums that I don't care about (Hertz for example, just to take an example out of the air), and threads I don't care about (recent examples obvious). That is all any of us can do.

It's like any part of life -- you try to ignore the bad parts and celebrate the good. This is no different.

"...I think it is time some decisions were made and some action was taken before the rot goes any further. Again, as I have said before, this board is loosing credibility and that can't be good for Randy's business. Randy may not be the 'policeman of the world', but in my view his decision to expand this board (however well intentioned) started the problems and he is the only one who can put it right..."

I, for one absolutely concur!


And from the past, as Merry noted:

"...It is very simple, I have held the view that WE have managed to maintain a level of decorum and sevility which is unusual in such a forum.

Recent events have blown that theory out of the water. We have commercial sponsors and their commercial interests have recently become plain.

For my part this forum is no longer what it was. Every time I post now I consider how the post will sit with our hosts.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this, simply that it is not what I expected from this forum.

My view is that InsideFlyer was able to gain some insight from this forum, an insight which was as a result of sensible mature discussion - with a little bit of friendly humour - I am very dissapointed that censorship has recently become apparent.

I think it is time for me to consider if I need to find an alternative forum, where I do not feel concerned about voicing my opinions.

Nick"

and

"...Right, down to business, I think we have made our point very ably, hopefully WebFlyer Corp or Inc or whatever it is will take notice of our concerns, after all this board is here to keep WebFlyer the premier provider of FF information and therefore ensure we buy their magazines and products.

It is by no means a philanthropic endeavour.

The point has been made. Our work is done..."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001057.html


"Ok, I think we have all heard this argument enough times that it is becoming a pain.
Doug: Do you not see how hypocritical your posting is? You are saying this is a "public" board so "you" should not apply an etiquette. But that in itself is applying an etiquette.

My view is this. Generally the users of this forum get on well with each other. There is no abuse on this forum. The users of this forum get on with the sponsors of this forum.

My personal view, if people don't like it here, they shouldn't come here..."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001003.html


"Oh dear, oh dear we are getting in a pickle aren't we.

There seems to be much debate about this BB at the moment and I thought I would share my observations with you...

When I first came across this Board in 1998 I thought it was fantastic. A hard-core of people shared experiences and the board was largely focused on FF program related issues.

Mid-way through last year, I changed jobs and drifted away from the board. When my life had calmed down a little I came back to FylerTalk thinking things would be largey the same. They weren't!

Rudi, Premex etc. were still around, but (no offence guys) they didn't seem as prolific as they once had. But apart from that the board had changed in other ways...

The focus had gone. This was no longer a forum about FF programs but a general travel forum, which is fine but general travel is an immotive and diverse subject and when you start talking general travel you risk getting awash with comment which is largely irrelevant to the majority.

In other words there is so much information around you can't find what you want or what interests you.

That is what I think has changed here. Maybe that is what people want, but it isn't what I used to liek about Flyertalk.

Now I am going to attribute responsibility for this change on someone (not blame because this may have been waht people want)... and the person is... Randy.

Randy has tried to make this forum all things to all men [and women].

I think things got out of control during the time of PiP. I think Randy jumped on this "community" band-wagon and that was it the focus was gone. If you are talking community you are allowing people to talk about things which effect the community, but I once thought this Forum was not for that, but as I have said things have changed.

Another thing which I think is happening now which is very ugly is that people are attaching themselves to this forum and using it as a way of beating the travel industry with their Customer Service Complaints. Personally I don't like the practice of publishing letters to/from airlines/hotels etc. on this forum WHAT VALUE DOES IT ADD to the reader??

In a nutshell, this forum used to ADD VALUE by providing information - that seems to be a minor part of it's role now.

That's fine. But some of the people I consider the key-speakers have drifted away (when was the last time Baobab posted?) and the reason being is this forum has become to ambitious and has forgotten its reason for being here.

If you don't believe me, take a wonder through the posts and see how many actually give you some information which enables you to earn extra miles etc... This forum has drifted so much that there are 'orphan' web-sites which actually tell us what we used to seek here.


My view is if you want to get this board back to the great forum it once was, take the community stuff off-line (go so that somewhere else). Delete the threads such as OMNI; Community; Buzz etc.

Randy: Read your description of what this board is for and make the necessary changes so it gets back there.

I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but if things carry on as they are, the travel industry will start to think of this forum as a joke/pain and that will tarnish your Freddies and everything else you have worked so hard for.

If I was in Customer Service for an airline, I think I would be wary of anyone who allowed a forum which publicised Customer Service issues.

I mean this in as constructive a way as possible.

Nick"

and

"My point is that, this board used to (I am not sure about anymore) havea message when you first logged on specifying that it was about FF programes - general travel chat was directed elsewhere.
By creating the extra forums, this board has been allowed to loose focus, and as I result I think is a much less vibrant and relevant place (my view only, I accept other disagree).

Because there is a lack of focus, some people feel legitimate in posting about non-FF topics.

Get back to the origional reason-detre and you have solved the problem?..."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000302.html


Shocking as it may well prove to be to some, I absolutely agree with Nick!

Again, also kindly please recall:

..."it seems that there's again been a substantial increase in bickering and a (related?) decrease in information sharing!

What is the problem after all?

I hope Boomer won't mind my quoting him here!
"My best suggestion to Catman and everyone else? Treat Flyertalk for what it is, a place to share ideas and comments, no more, no less. We aren't talking about world peace here, we're talking about miles for heaven's sake. This isn't life and death, lets not treat it that way."

For heavens sakes, perhaps we can remember that the boards are/should be a great place to learn and to be somewhat playfully entertained for 24hrs/day. Specific personal feelings regarding one anothers' differences should NOT be discussed online in FT, IMHO.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Not a "new" suggestion!

As Randy noted after the last ugly episode that became so egregious as to lead to deletion of the thread:

TALK TRAVEL

Were talking airlines, hotels, miles and points! Perhaps's we can maintain some focus and have threads dealing with these specific issues and NOT bearing remarks about posts and posters!

Let's PLEASE ALL let the other silliness go!

We will surely ALL benefit!

Mark"


And lastly, thanks again to Randy & Co for providing this outstanding forum for ALL of us!


[This message has been edited by doc (edited 11-24-2000).]

Thanks Doc

<deleted>

doc,

Is dredging up YEAR old posts talking travel?

Please follow your own advise.

As much as I dislike these spats (and the concomitant recursive "postings about posting") I feel grumpy enough right now to add my (hopefully value-added) suggestions:

1. For those who feel compelled to dredge up old posts or continually make content-free responses simply to have something to do while making a run toward 2 million posts, we could establish a "all {insert name here} all the time" forum where the individual can go and play with himself (or herself - hereinafter use of the masculine pronoun should be considered unstressed usage) to his heart's content. As with all cases of playing with oneself, 'twere best done out of the sight of others.

(1a. An alternative was suggested by Rudi some time ago, as I recall. If I recall correctly, he suggested that a person consumed by such a need could simply begin an "all me" thread, post replies to it continuously until he came to a climactic posting, and then (properly cleaning up after himself) delete the whole thread when he was done running up his numbers. Unfortunately, now that the "delete thread" capability has been removed, the sanitary solutions are not as available.)

2. However, if the onanists (for that's really what it is - they cannot possible think they are giving anyone else pleasure) absolutely insist on doing it in public and infecting (infesting?) the worth-while threads and fora in the process, I recall reading somewhere of a tweak to the software that would permit a reader to simply "ignore" all postings made by a particular username. They would simply never appear on his screen; threads would omit postings made by the person sent to Coventry, and instead continue on topic.

If this can be done, I'd really like to see it offered. It would give real meaning (and efficacy) to the "just ignore them" advice. After a while the spammer would see that his posts seem to have absolutely no effect, and would have to make a choice: Either stay with the old habit and continue to rack up posting numbers (which would mean nothing since few if any readers would see them), or change his act and username (which would start him over as a new member and would result in loss of the "prestigous" posting numbers).

3. There may be a less complete, but less drastic solution. If everyone who wants to post non-frequent flyer stuff (which to me includes recursive posts and flame wars) would have the elemental decency to put them in OMNI, we could go back to "live and let live", where those who are primarily interested in quantity can have their desires met, while the rest of us who are primarily interested in quality would have an easier time separating the wheat from whatever else is out there.

At least, that's the way I see it.

(And Jailer, this is not about you or the point you made to begin this thread. This has been biting me for some time, and I just happened to be on this thread when something finally set me off.)

Counsellor, I was anatomically challenged laughing and nodding my head at the same time. Trust me, no slight noted, no apology needed. As paraphrased from the Story of Ruth, “Your people shall be my people”.

Premex said:
To deflect interest from some of the doom and gloom on this board, by all means take a look at this thread below. I started it a few days ago as a joke, (before FQTV forgot to take his medication or whatever) and in the wrong Forum most probably for which I apologised in advance, but no-one ever mentioned. It has attracted about 100 responses since then, pretty much a record for that Forum in a couple of days. There is good humoured banter in there on all sorts of subjects, lots of word plays, lots of SATIRE, (the title of this thread) interesting political and historical and social information, and no spineless postings under fake names by well known FT'ers just to start flame wars.

There are some pretty funny exchanges in there from a VERY wide range of FT'ers, and unless I am mistaken not ONE WORD in the 100 or so posts there is relating to travel or airlines!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/001304.html

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 11-25-2000).]

Oz, you are an ordinal chap, a temperament trait that undoubtedly is a requirement for being a stamp collector. How many people went to Duesseldorf; How quickly over a hundred responded to the “Queen” thread (mentioned at least twice, see “take it easy folks”); how many times that you had dinner with Randy (I know only once, but you’ve name-dropped so many times it seems like more).

Numerology is just one way to approach the universe. Is the quality of a topic singularly based on the number of responses? Is the success of an event wholly dependent on the number of participants? Living in a glass house perhaps I shouldn’t throw stones, but if 100 people banter back and forth on, say, “how to clean a snake’s teeth”, does that thread automatically have more intrinsic value than if only 40 people participate in, say, “how to survive a hotel fire”?

Here’s the meat: I’m pretty laissez-faire, and I’ve never made any kind of suggestion on Board structure. But I think that it would be best if the number of posts were not shown or even tracked. I can see the point of designating new, journeyman (journeyperson), and veteran members since this may impact how you approach someone in a response. However, IMHO, cutting out post body counts will reduce posting for posting's sake.

Hey, I threw myself a tongue-in-cheek on-line party when I hit 100 posts. So clearly I’m not above the cult of numbers. I’d just prefer that folks write for the joy of writing and for the spirit of community and leave numbers to bean counters (apologies to any flying bean counters).

BTW, the “Queen” thread was pretty funny.




[This message has been edited by Jailer (edited 11-25-2000).]