Quote:

"Personally I don't think it's right for someone to take a first class seat if they don't belong there, but I also don't think it's right for another passenger to turn them in. It should be the FA's duty to check the manifest and reconcile. It's only a few rows of seat -- shouldn't be so difficult!"

I disagree, and I'm afraid I have been guilty of "grassing someone up". In January this year I was travelling with BA from Montreal-Heathrow in Business class. I had a bulkhead aisle seat (10B?). As boarding was finishing three "gentlemen" who were, shall we say, in boisterous spirits boarded. The FA on the door checked their tickets, and directed them to the back of the plane. However, as they walked through the half-full club cabin one of them said "this'll do - sshhh" and they sat down quietly, two in the centre seats 1 row behind and across the aisle from me, the other at the back and across the cabin. The FA must have suspected something was going on, and she looked down the aisle from the galley. I knew that she couldn't see them from where she was standing, but I caught her eye and very slowly shook my head. She nodded, then came back and asked to see the boarding cards of the two nearest me. They asked to stay in "their" seats till after take-off, but the FA refused and they reluctantly moved. The third stayed put, till the FA did a head-count and was caught too.

OK, it's not my job to get people moved, but a) I had paid; and b) didn't fancy a 7 hour flight near them when they'd had a few more drinks. This is not to say that I've got anything against anyone (self included) having more than a few drinks. Its just the resulting behaviour can be difficult to ignore from 1 row away.

Later in the flight I walked down the plane to stretch my legs, and must admit a
smile crossed my face when I saw that economy was packed http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I'd be interested to know what other FF's would have done. Would you have ignored it and maybe paid the price for 7 hours?

[This message has been edited by bulkhead (edited 09-04-2000).]

I think a thief should be exposed. If everyone watched and reported, less would attempt and get away with it. BUT! how may have a problem upgrade thieves but not movie thieves. Nearly every flight where I have been on and you had to pay for the movie... Many pax take headphone out of personal gear and enjoy the movie. I believe this is also stealing unless there is some program that sells those headsets and airlines allow you to view (hear) the movie at no charge?!?

This is a very interesting topic.

The closest thing I did to stealing an upgrade was on a British Airways flight from JFK-LHR earlier this year. I had heard so much about the new Club World seats, my curiosity got the best of me, and I passed through the curtain and sat in the last seat to try it out, not planning on staying more than 10 minutes. Everyone in the cabin was sleeping, and the FAs were in the galley, so I had no problems.

However, the seat was too comfortable and I fell asleep. I slept for about 2 hours, and when I got up, the FA saw me. She wanted to know if I wanted a tour of the upper deck and first class, and took me around to see it. I even brought the captain his fruit plate on the upper deck, with help up the FA, of course!

After my tour, the upper deck FA invited me to stay in one of the Club World seats until the descent. I took him up and the offer, and stayed in Club, but did not take advantage of any food or drink services.

I've been reading with interest all these posts about the stealing of upgrades, particularly the part about airlines letting someone stay in biz/first, then charging their credit card for the difference in price. Now, I'm not advocating the theft of these seats, but if someone did this and they challenged the additional charges on their credit card, how could the airlines prove that the charge was justified? Wouldn't the thief have his boarding pass to "prove" what he should have been paying for? It seems like someone could contest and overturn such a charge pretty easily. Just wondering...

What are others thoughts on upgrading in advance with an airline, and the clerk forgets to ask for the upgrade cert when you check in. On a long It'l journey that can clearly be a many $1000's "benefit".

Do others here regard that as stealing?




------------------
~ Glen ~

Rail Baron,

I agree with you. Stories about charging for the difference have to be "urban myths." No airline would post a charge to a credit card without proper authorization. And if they did, the card holder could get the charge reversed in about a tenth of a second.

Bruce

Umm .. would a cardholder signature perhaps qualify? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Sure! But a signature on the original ticket purchase isn't an authorization to charge additional thousands of dollars because the passenger -- allegedly -- sat in the wrong seat. I doubt that this ever happened, but if it did, the card holder would be a fool to pay the charge.

Bruce

What if the airline said that you had two choices. Pay for what you took (i.e. - sign the credit card for the class of service in which you actually flew) or we will press criminal charges for theft? [NOTE: Threatening criminal prosecution, to gain a civil advantage, may be illegal in some jurisdictions - assume this hypothetical situation occurs somewhere where this could be asked legally]

I'm not a lawyer; I just sound like one sometimes, from years of working closely with lawyers, I suppose!

Anyway, proving that someone intentionally sat in the wrong class might be impossible if the person was never confronted. (And if the person were confronted, he or she undoubtedly would have moved.) The person would just claim that it was an innocent mistake.

In any event, the airline has an obligation to mitigate its damages. If it sees someone "stealing" services, it has to take reasonable steps to stop the loss -- such as confronting the individual. It cannot just let the loss occur, on the assumption that they can just send the person a bill afterward. Imagine if Wal-Mart let shoplifters steal whatever they wanted but just billed their credit cards (this is totally fantasy, of course). If you don't protect your property, a thief could claim that it appeared to be abandoned, and abandoned property is free for the taking.

I still maintain that no airline has ever tried to charge a passenger for sitting in the wrong seat. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

Bruce

I think the flight crew should and must have control of the seating without letting anyone upgrade themself.
You get what you pay for, unless are upgraded with permission.

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 09-06-2000).]

Sorry.

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 09-06-2000).]

bdshobel .. I have none personally but it was posted in a thread here only a week or so back. Not sure which board sadly, but it was someone here SAW it happen, it seems. "Please either pay for the difference between your paid coach or First seat or go back to your coach seat, and the person asked did apparenlty pay the sum asked despite loud mutterings and protest!

Someone else may recall the link. Maybe even have been Premex who posted it .. not certain.

Don't forget .. most airplanes carry paper imprinters to accept card charges for all kinds of things, and can do a paper docket, write in the ACTUAL service you are ageeing to - duty free, fare upgrade etc on the spot and once you sign it baby, its all over bar the shouting!

Maybe I missed a post pointing this out ...

It seems everyone agrees that sneaking into FC is "stealing" and objectionable ... but I have heard numerous instances of folks on this board (myself included and others who have posted to this thread I'm sure) purposely not voluteering upgrade certificates in hope that they would not be collected or surrendering different (less "valuable") upgrade certificates than were actually used to secure an upgrade. I guess some stealing is just more objectionable than other types of stealing ...