Let me get this straight, he left his girlfriend to sit alone while he sat upfront?

I hope she has the brains to dump the cheapskate.

They ended up flying together in coach, but had he gone undetected it appears he was willing to sit without her. I agree, it appears she could do better in her choice of men.

I don't think I have seen this mentioned about the "stealing upgrades".
I too have heard the "myths" that people were charged for their "upgrades" after the fact. Could someone tell me how they know which passenger from the coach manifest to charge? Obviously this person shouldn't be in first/business but if the flight in coach is not full, how will they know which passenger has moved up front without asking that person their name? If the plane is full, this would be easier as there would be an empty seat in coach that can be matched up to the manifest, but people do switch seats once the doors close.

I don't think I have seen this mentioned about the "stealing upgrades".
I too have heard the "myths" that people were charged for their "upgrades" after the fact. Could someone tell me how they know which passenger from the coach manifest to charge? Obviously this person shouldn't be in first/business but if the flight in coach is not full, how will they know which passenger has moved up front without asking that person their name? If the plane is full, this would be easier as there would be an empty seat in coach that can be matched up to the manifest, but people do switch seats once the doors close.

I don't believe anyone has ever been charged, to their credit card, with the upgrade without their knowledge. If someone has some concrete evidence of this happening, it would help us all to verify the "urban myths". Also if someone could verify the one about the guy with the hook for a hand that ended up hanging from my car door, I would appreciate that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

In reading earlier posts in this thread, my understanding is that the pax which was identified as not belonging in first was approached and given two options: 1) return to their purchased coach seat; or 2) pay the fare difference to sit in first. One report is that the pax did in fact agree to pay the difference and had it charged to his card.

I don't recall seeing any reports of an airline charging a card without discussing it with the pax.

Where are all these flights that have empty seats in first? Most flights that I am on these days (Delta), first is always, always filled! Actually, coach on flghts I'm on are usually filled too. The only time I saw a half emply plane was on a Friday the 13th. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

Is that a real Rolex? It better be or else I'm going to find that guy to get my $20 back!

But seriously, on a recent NW flight I was upgraded at the last moment and they wanted to close the door and I was not given a new boarding pass for 4F. I was challenged by the FA (not in the most polite manner but, hey, we're talking NW here). She had the pilot get confirmation before we pulled back (God forbid they should have briefly opened the door) and returned to lamely apologize stating, "People try to sit here all the time and I just wanted to check." I blew it off but probably could have made a bit of a stink about it. I know the FA job is tough. I always go out of my way to be EXTRA nice to them when I am up front because I notice how many people ARE NOT! It is usually people that have paid the full fare (or more accurately, their company/client) as us FT'ers would never stoop that low.

A little bit off-topic perhaps, but to follow on from what a couple of forumers have said about being 'singled out' or 'harrased' for looking as though they should not be in First / Business: I used to travel back and forward to the US from the UK every month when I ran my own business, usually with KLM / NW, and often in Business Class. Because I am young, and look even younger (and this is not a boast, this if often NOT such a good thing!!!!) then I was constantly being queried and double checked on KLM. Quite recently, I was flying back from MSP to AMS on a NW 747 with my partner, and we both had regular (i.e. conforms to NW hand baggage standards!) carry-ons. First of all, an agent at the bottom of the jetway said "I need those bags - they need to go in the hold - there's no more room in coach". When I replied that we were in business, and that they cases were regular carry on size, he didn't believe us! It was only after showing the boarding passes that he grudgingly let us pass.

Imagine my annoyance when boarding through the forward aircraft door, and instead of a cheery 'hello, welcome on board' from the flt attendant, he instead remarked loudly to a colleauge standing nearby "I thought we weren't allowing roller bags in Coach today" and moved to intercept us. There was no apology when we showed him our BP's - I guess he was too embarrased, instead just pointing in the direction of our seats.

Nowadays, I am the flight attendant - and on the airline I now work for, 'self-upgraders' are increasingly frequent. Unlike some US carriers, we always complete a full head count of passengers in each class, and this is reconciled with the manifest. The gate agent is not allowed to shut the a/c door until we have a match on passenger 'heads'. This is primarily for security purposes, but because we split the headcount by class, it often reveals a mis match with 1 or 2 extra pax in business and 1 or 2 pax under in Main cabin.

I always take the manifest, start at 1A, and walk through the cabin until I find a seat occupied that is shown as empty on the manifest, and then will politely ask to verify the boarding pass. I never try to pick out people who look too young, in casual dress, etc etc. I always go by the manifest.

Sometimes it is a genuine mistake, but more often than not people are trying to get something for nothing. Some passengers have noticed that their boarding passes are printed on card that is quite glossy, and that if they wet the BP then the ink will wipe off. Some pax have gone to the extent of wiping of the '1' or the '2' to change 12C to 2C or 24A to 4A!!! Unfortunately, on our airline, this doesn't normally wash (excuse the pun!) as we have red boarding cards for business class, and blue ones for Main cabin, so one can tell at a glance that the pax is supposed to be sitting in Economy.

When pax upgrade themselves, I find that the majority of my colleagues do not like to challenge them, and inevitably it is left to me to find the 'upgrader'. I know that on some flights, especially where we have enough business class meals, there is a tendancy amonst some of my colleagues just to let it pass, and not do anything about it. Whilst I do sometimes feel a bit mean sending someone back to Economy when Business is only half full, I do feel that is a bit devious trying to deceive the Cabin Crew on board and sneak an upgrade. I know that there are arguements for and against upgrading passengers to business, and some airlines like Continental always send out their business class full, but my airline's policy is to try and give Business Class passengers as much space as possible, often with just 1 passenger per grouping of seats. If business were to be totally full, and Economy was to be half empty with loads of room to spread out in, I guess it would eventually tee off a lot of our travellers who appreciate the space and the chance to have the seat next to them free to spread out onto etc. A bit of a long-winded explanation, but that's why I don't just let anyone upgrade themselves as and when they please.

That said, If business class does have a few empty rows, then I will try and upgrade honeymoon couples, other airline employees, as well of course as Gold frequent flyer card holders!! (Although usually they will have been upgraded by check-in staff already if business is pretty wide open)

Just my tuppence worth! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by SamuelS (edited 09-29-2000).]

SamuelS - thanks for being polite, fair, and vigilant. I don't know whether I should be happy or not that I'm never challenged [not true! now that I think about it, the day before yesterday, I was challenged by a GA making final check on US Scare - when I fly that airline I try to block it out as quickly as possible - for being in 2A (apparently listed as vacant) after the FFA had asked me to move from row 1 for some reason or other: but the FFA intervened before I could even open my mouth], but if I were, I'd certainly react more peacefully to a polite request for clarification.
As far as vigilance goes, the full-fare-paying pax get to complain about the dilution of F by the likes of me; but I'm second on the totem pole and get to complain about said dilution by people who sneak upwards on their own (whether via bought unbuyable upgrades or their own chutzpah).

Do regular, full-fare paying F-class passengers generally consider it unfair to allow frequent "coach" flyers to get an upgrade evry once in a while, using their hard-earned miles?

CDG...they may but I don't think they should. The frequent flyer just paid for the upgrade with a different form of currency.

Last year my aunt flew on a NW red-eye transcon flight to attend her 50th high school reunion. Being a very infrequent flyer apprehensive about flying, my uncle had taken her to the aiport very early. During their wait, they struck up a conversation with "Mr. V", an older gentleman who happened to mention he was an ex-prisoner of war. So was my uncle, and the two instantly bonded like long lost buddies! Mr. V had a first class ticket on the same flight as my aunt.

A bit into the flight, my aunt was approached by a sweet FA who kneeled next to her and whispered, "Mrs. R, Mr. V was just telling me that you're the wife of an ex-POW. He would like you to join him up front." My aunt, settling in with her blanket against the window, replied, "Oh, that's okay, I'm fine here." The FA, sensing my aunt had no idea she was being offered a free upgrade, smiled and whispered, "Your friend would really like you to sit with him up front...here, I'll help you move your things..." Apparently Mr. V was a frequent flyer (with considerable clout?) and had told the FA of my sweet, 60-ish aunt who's afraid to fly, and of my uncle's service to our country. My aunt suddenly understood that Mr. V wanted her to join him in first class and agreed, but it wasn't a big deal to her, either.

She enjoys telling the story of how she had to be talked into an upgrade!

Now that I've read through this thread, it makes me wonder if the other 1st class pax were resentful of her presence.




[This message has been edited by SPort (edited 10-04-2000).]

My former Secretary and husband were flying UNITED Airlines to the MAJOR WWII reunion in Europe for POWs a few years ago. I believe it was the big anniversary event, that we saw on TV, but so few of us remember or care about. It might have been a D-DAY or V-DAY event or something related(?).

They have NO FF status with any airline, and are in their 80's. His plane was shot down and he was injured and 'death' marched by the Nazi. They were upgraded to FIRST CLASS from LAX to Europe without asking or anything else!! She credits me with teaching her how to be personable and friendly, when making reservations, as the only explanation for the upgrade. Perhaps the Airlines had a policy to upgrade the Veterans going to the event.

I do not fly UNITED for the most part, but I still think this has to be the NICEST and FINEST consideration by any airline, that I know of. Better then all the bonuses and upgrades, that I have ever got or read about on this Bullitan Board. It is one of those ONCE in a LIFETIME 'THANK YOU', that make a difference in peoples' lives, who made a difference in ours! HATS OFF TO UNITED!

Better then all the bonuses and upgrades, that I have ever got or read about on this Bullitan Board. It is one of those ONCE in a LIFETIME 'THANK YOU', that make a difference in peoples' lives, who made a difference in ours! HATS OFF TO UNITED!

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 10-04-2000).]

Sorry a duplicate.

[This message has been edited by ROADRUNNER (edited 10-04-2000).]

About a month ago, I was on a US Air flight from Charlotte to Denver with a 1st-class ticket. Just before the door closed, a man got on the plane and quickly hustled to the 1 empty seat in F and sat down. The flight attendant immediately asked for his boarding pass, and he said he didn't have one. He trotted out the "get on the plane and sit in any seat" story, but the flight attendant didn't buy it. As she took a closer look at his carry-on, she saw "CREW" tags and became suspicious. Within 2 minutes the police were on the airplane, cuffed the passenger, and took him off. Apparently US Air had been tipped off about someone who was not only sneaking onto airplanes, but using fake credentials to do it. Since the guy's primary objective was presumably to get to Denver, he might have succeeded had he gone to the back of the plane.

Somebody who knows more how airlines handle crew passengers can probably fill in some blanks: How did he get a boarding pass to begin with? Was this guy also a security risk - or just a thief? How did the airline get tipped off about the scam to begin with?

Anyway, moving on to a couple of other points.

(1) I've flown in F both on a real first class ticket (albeit rarely) and on upgrades. I think most people these days know the gig well enough to not get bitter about people who are there with awards or upgrades. Anybody who is purchasing a first class ticket probably also accumulates miles as well. If they are that smug about the whole thing, then they need to get over it. However, most people aren't like that.

(2) Airlines giving courtesy upgrades to biz/first: US Air is pretty good about this. I fly transatlantic with them a couple of times a year and get a bump about 1/3 of the time. I'm Gold Preferred (2nd-highest tier). I'm also Prem.Exec. on United (similar tier) and rarely get an upgrade for free. It definitely affects my buying decisions - I could use either United or US Air to get to London, and I'll always choose US Air if the prices are remotely similar.

(3) Trying to steal a free upgrade just sounds stupid. I *know* I'd get caught if I tried it. Related question, though: On some narrowbody jets, the best seat on the entire aircraft is in the exit row in coach. Usually, you must be an elite flyer to get one of those seats. If I'm not an elite flyer, and I move into an empty exit row seat after the door closes, is that stealing? I tend not to think so - I liken this to grabbing a better seat for the last couple of innings at a ballgame.

(4) And finally, on the subject of certificate upgrades: I've heard of people trying to swap out more-valuable upgrades for less-valuable ones, and I agree that this is deceitful and wrong. HOWEVER, the whole practice of using paper upgrades has been established - by the airlines - as a fairly interpretive thing. For example, the gate agents in Kansas City only ask for 1 800-mile upgrade to fly to Charlotte (808 miles). In Charlotte, they ask for two to get back to KC. On afternoon flights when they aren't serving a full first-class meal, they tend to be a bit more lenient on the certs. And most - but not all - gate agents will honor expired certs if you are still an elite FF member. The bottom line: using paper certificates is always somewhat of a game. Playing the game isn't stealing, in my opinion. Once everybody computerizes it, there will be less subjectivity.

Coach exit row is still priced just as "coach" as the last middle seat. It's like "stealing" an unoccupied window or aisle seat if you were assigned a middle seat (say the passenger didn't show). The fares are the same even though sitting quality is markedly different! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Great article! Thanks for sharing.

I've never had the pleasure of witnessing such an event but understand why the airlines police FC especially when it comes to international flights. I would say to comments made by Boomer and others that if a flight is not booked full in FC/BC that there should be an option to purchase/upgrade at time of check-in for a few extra $'s. The airlines at least increase the revenue figures for what would go for $0.

Some interesting stories; now for one of mine...

A few years ago, I was making one of my customary pilgrimages to CUN, (SFO-DFW-CUN, on AA) along with my GF and a couple of friends. Unfortunately, we didn't have enough stickers to upgrade everyone. So, there were 3 of us in F, and 2 (including my GF) in Y (Yes, this was OK with her). So I spent some time back in Y on the SFO-DFW leg, and we all boarded the DFW-CUN flight.

There was an extra seat aisle-across from me, and my GF sat down in it to talk to me before they closed the doors. We told the FA that she wasn't in F, but back in Y, and she said okay, no problem, just move back to Y when we shut the door.

Time came to leave, they began to close the door, and the same FA came to us and said "just sit there, nobody is using that seat today". She was served an F meal and drinks.

We also sent a few "F" beers back to the poor b&#$ard who had to fly Y solo.

Definitely made my GF and me very happy, and my loyalty to AA continues to this day.

Q: Did she do this because she looked me and my two buddies up and saw that all 3 of us were Platinum? Was she just being nice?

Who knows, but it was a very nice thing for her to do.

You know, I want all the free stuff I can get and it really is an addiction BUT, no matter how you look at it, getting something you haven't realy earned or been given is THEFT. You can toss it around all you want, it is still STEALING.

Having a small business, getting my employees to understand that neglient waste and stretching time (hours) is still stealng - Ha...from my pocket. You are a thief when you do it.

Interesting thing I've seen on Lufthansa...they walk through the cabin before boarding begins and turn on all of the reading lights in business class seats that are assigned. If they see someone sit in an unlit seat, they politely ask to see the boarding card. I suppose they have to be fairly diligent to make sure a light doesn't get flicked on when no one is looking...but it seemed to work.

Another thing I saw once...I guess there was a group of three who could not get seats together in economy. (They seemed, in fact, to know one of the FAs.) Immediately before pushback, the FA rounded up the three and put them in an empty row together in business. (Intra-Europe flight, so the seats weren't so much better than economy.) But even though they got the business seats, the FAs were careful to bring them economy breakfast. So while I ate my omlette and warm croissant from a real plate, they got cold danish from a cardboard box.

[This message has been edited by Paulo (edited 10-10-2000).]

I was on UA with my brother. I had upgraded to C but he hadn't gotten his, on a 3 cabin transcon. They insisted there was no space.

The plane took off and there was a seat available in C, several in fact. I politely asked the purser and she first turned me down. Then I pleasently insisted and she went and got my brother and brought him to C and let him sit there. They never did collect coupons from him when we left http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif