As for the age discrimination issue, motnot, I think you have to go right back to the insurers.

Insurance companies charge more for liability insurance for drivers aged 16 - 24. The rental car companies pass this on in the form of "underage fees."

Best argument for no-fault systems. But then again, in the U.S. "civil litigation is better than the lottery" system, any serious proposal for no-fault would run headlong into an active lobby of ambulance chasers.

3 cheers for Canada, eh?

Then move there (you claim to live in NYC). I guess you'd rather have an organized lobby of monied interests dictate public policy than dedicated professionals protecting the rights of those with less power. God forbid there be any incentive to protect the public.

Way to take an uneccesary cheap and ignorant shot at a bunch of noble people who could just as easily gone and worked for $300 an hour plus defending large entities. No, you'd rather have those large entities like INSURANCE COMPANIES run roughshod over everyone's rights without anyone opposing their interests ever. Look at the absbestos manufacturers- they convinced Congess to make almost impossible for people dying of cance to assert a claim. And you think society is better off if a company who MURDERS people and tries to cover it up gets off scot free, rather than some lawyers make a living defending the rights of the injured.

I for one am proud of what I do, and if you don't like it, go move somewhere else that you think has a better quality of life than here. Trial lawyers and the interest groups they comprise perform a tremendous public service. Because of people like those you cowardly call derisive names, manufacturers think twice before marketing a product they know is defective, industries are less like to conspire to fix prices, corporations are less likely to defraud stockholders, and the America is a better place to live than anywhere else in the world!

God forbid people be held liable for things they do wrong. That way people and companies are unable to trample the rights of others with no regard. Imagine what the world would come to!

Have a good weekend.


[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 06-12-2000).]

Ok, I just got the ABA membership and made a reservation with Hertz saving a little bit below $100 on my next car rental in Chicago

Thank you BoSoxFan45 and all others for help and great info.

BTW, a diffrent lady from Hertz called me and said that will look up and see what she can do to get me approved for the #1 Club Gold membership and let me know early next week.

Everything turned out great Thank you all! You guys are THE BEST.

BoSox:

Your opinions/arguments related to the issues are appreciated.

However, why you peppered them with the personal attacks and the ad hominem, I'm not sure. Nonetheless, these are certainly irrelevant to any case you are making in this forum--as any good lawyer would realize. Moreover, AC*SE is an established flyertalker to whom your defamatory comments don't apply.

Most flyertalkers will affirm strongly that this board is singular in its high level of civility. Please abide. And if you think I'm kidding in the least about the high level of civility sought/maintainted by the members of this forum, you will likely find no one here who will support such rhetoric.

BoSoxFan, I think your response is a bit uncalled for. AC*SE's post was not directed at you personally, yet you respnonded with such an attack.

AC*SE probably didn't mean to imply that all lawyers are ambulance chasers or that everyone views litigation as a jackpot waiting to happen, but certainly there is that element, and it tarnishes the whole system. On the other hand, I am part of THE MEDIA, and we're all scum.

(An example of abuse of the legal system: Recently in Phoenix, a woman sued a couple doctors for about $120K, the cost to raise a child, saying they didn't diagnose her pregnancy in time for her to get an abortion. In fact, they did, and the jury ruled for the defendants. It was a repulsive case made even moreso by the fact that it had no merit. Why else would her attorneys take it?)

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between what you and AC*SE wrote. Interest groups certainly can play a vital part in our public life; they also sometimes fight common-sense proposals that would benefit the country as a whole because it may be bad for their interest (the NRA and AARP come to mind).

Next time, be nice.

Jefflewis2 - If AC*SE is an "established flyertalker" then pray tell why did he make the comment "ambulance chasers" in a discussion about drivers under 25 years of age and the fee that is charged to them. beyond belief

[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 06-09-2000).]

I'll presume to speak for JeffLewis2 with a "Huh?"

It also bears noting that I am a Barrister and Solicitor of the Supreme Court of British Columbia.

I am proud of my profession, notwithstanding the abuses that my learned friends have brought it to in some jurisdictions.

Getting OMNI for a moment: When subrogation turns civil litigation into nothing more than an arbitration mechanism between insurers it only serves to allow those very insurers to shut out the private litigant, and by derivation to raise insurance and medical costs across the board.

Ever wonder why medical devices, procedures and drugs are better than 35% cheaper north of the border?

majic:

Perhaps we need a definition of "established." An "established flyertalker," for example, would be one who has been around here for some time, given the number of posts. It could also comprise other aspects, but this is not germane.

Pray tell, what does, or does not, being established, have to do with his comment. This is the connection you are attempting to make, and one that I did not. Just because he's been around for over 500 posts doesn't mean that he can't make such. Being established doesn't mean that one doesn't make such pejorative comments--though most around here don't. I don't concur with his characterization, either. Yet his comment is not tantamount to calling someone a "jerk," "coward" or "idiot" as was done above.

Majic, it was that sort of verbiage that I was addressing. Even if you think that I somehow imply that an established flyertalker wouldn't make such a comment, or that one shouldn't, and ACSE does, it follows that there is no contradiction, but that neither of the two should make disparaging remarks. And, of course, you wouldn't be affirming the fallacy that somehow Bosox has a right to respond in such a manner just because ACSE did?

Okayy - It just makes a lot more sense to me that when you are making some derogatory implication of others on the board (and there is a wide variety of others) and its not really "real or all encompassing" some acknowledgement of such would be greatly appreciated by "others."
Otherwise tell them both to take it off the boards.
btw - just curious is there no underage fee for car rentals in canada and other countries or is this just a usa phenomenen. thank you in advance


[This message has been edited by magic111 (edited 06-10-2000).]

I rented from Enterprise when I was under 25. No problems and the rates were about the same as the majors.

Okay- I took my "name-calling" away. I should not have been so personal in my post.

Sorry to be uncivil, but I felt that the first post was vastly more uncivil than what I posted. that doesn't make the "name-calling" right, but I stand by my argument 100% and firmly believe the statement made by AS*CE to be rude, ignorant, and out of place.

And what was defamatory about what I wrote?

I didn't start this. It's just I am a Plaintiff's class action lawyer, and constantly have to fend off derogatory remarks from people who think they are being clever, like a parroting Rush Limbaugh fan.

Yes, there are a very few plaintiffs' lawyers who file frivolous cases and use police scanners to chase ambulances. And there are a very doctors who molest their patients. And a very small percentage of black people are murders. And a percentage of white men are rapists. These are anecdotes and BY NO MEANS apply to the whole- Logic 101.
The perjorartive should NEVER be used to classify the global group, which AS*CE did. That, with all due respect, is profoundly ignorant, and the act of someone with whom I would not like to be associated intellectually or socially. And reasoning from such anecdotes is the more socially acceptable intellectual cousin of sexism, racism, and other "-isms" which are socially and intellectually deplorable.

The lobbying group to which AS*CE referred are comprised mostly of ethical lawyers who make their jurisdictions safer places.

Sorry. I'm new to flyertalk and thus far had found it to be a great place. That's why I was shocked to see the attack come out of the blue on this board.

Lest we forget, I'm the one who came up with the helpful suggestion here. ASCE added NOTHING, just a perjorative comment from left field.

Use perjorative terms to classify my sub-set of my profession, and I won't sit idly by.

I don't see how anyone here can see what he said as being civil. Think of how you would have reacted.

And just because AS*CE hass posted over 500 times in the past 3 months doesn't make the cheap shot he took correct, appropriate, or immune from criticism. That's like saying you shouldn't criticize an old man if he makes a racist comment because he's due some level of respect that a younger person doesn't have.

I will defend what I do, and I am suprised I have to defend my defense. I didn't start the incivility, but I'm sorry if I continued it.

And to Canadians, I didn't mean at all to make a shot against your country.

The bottom line is, people who just whip out anecdotes to turn public opion agaisnt plaintiffs' lawyers as a whole are, in my opinion, dangerous. I will defend what I consider to be the intellectually stronger position.


[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 06-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 06-12-2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Damian:
Everything turned out great Thank you all! You guys are THE BEST.


Within all this other discussion - I wanted to mention that ANYTIME you are on a corporate account, they waive the under age fees. At least that is the experience I had when I rented from Alamo and Enterprise a few years back. I'm glad you figured out another way as well.

BoSoxFan,

At what point did I, "use a perjorative to classify the global group"? Au contraire, if you read my post more carefully you may note that I am in no way tarring all solicitors with the same brush.

I wrote that any proposal to do away with the tort liability system for motor vehicle accidents in US jurisdictions would run headlong into agressive lobbying. In my view, those who would lobby hardest--nay even, scream the loudest--are those who profit most from the existing system.

Nowhere do I suggest that every personal injury lawyer would take up the same position, nor that all of those who would oppose a no-fault proposal are necessarily the more ethically-challenged of our learned friends.

As it is obvious that you have taken offence, I offer my unqualified apologies.

I should also qualify my earlier statement somewhat, taking note that full or partial no-fault insurance systems are in place some 21 US jurisdictions. Equally, not all Canadian jurisdictions have done so.

One possibility is to use a university's corporate discount if you're an employee. National has a deal with my university that anyone on the payroll-- if you show a pay stub-- is eligible for the rates with no onderage fee. I have an old pay stub from when I did temporary work in November, and I used it this past weekend for a $22/day rate, INCLUDING LDW and no underage fee.