A moral question
 

Should airlines let late arriving passengers go to the front of a long ticket counter line so that they don't miss their flight?

NWA did this the other night, and because they had no FC line, and because of this policy, I stood in line for over 50 minutes, as did many other PAX who arrived in plenty of time.

Had I arrived late, I would not have had to wait.

One more note- this was at midmight. There were no traffic problems anywhere.

Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 07-31-2000).]

Airline--yes let him/her get checked in...we make money from a butt in the seat, not in the line.

Him/her--I am alway late, get over it or thanks, I really messed up and just made it thanks to you.

You/me--I plan my day so I make my flights timely, if you can't perhaps you should be inconvienced, not me???

The truth--no one should have to wait in line for 50 minutes to check-in. It is just not right. If they cannot check you in within 15 minutes of your arriving in a line then your ticket should be free!!!! This is a part of the service that is often bad, but rarely spoken about on this board.

Twice, when I have gone to Long Beach AP to get a ff ticket, I was asked to wait while "passengers" checked in for their flights even thou I had waited my turn in line already. Dummy me, I just stepped out and let everyone go thru. Fortunately, I had put enough money in the meter when I parked.

I also had a First class ticket. Not that this makes me any better than other PAX, but waiting 50 minutes for an FC ticket is insane.

I think the underlying question is:

"Should those who fail to plan ahead and arrive late be given special allowance at the expense of those who take the time to arrive early and check in?"

I know I appreciate when I'm helped to the front of the line for a tight connection, especially when the check-in queue is unexpectedly long. And I suppose that there's no way for check-in agents to objectively determine whether someone's lateness is his/her own fault or otherwise...

I disagree- when you are checking baggage- you are not making a connection- you are late on your own volition. If you are making a connection, they can check you through all the way to your final destination.



[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 07-31-2000).]

If a customer asked me to let them in front and I had time I would. If the airline asked, I'd ask what was in it for me (and almost any token would suffice). This may seem selfish, but my time has value and I often feel that it's not appreciated.

How late is late? I've gotten in line 50 minutes before departure, and gotten shuffled to the front of the line on a number of occasions because the line was so **** slow.

The root of the problem, IMO, is that the airlines massively understaff counter areas to contain costs. How many times have you seen 150 people in line, and maybe 2-3 employees trying to handle the whole mess?

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 07-31-2000).]

You never know WHY people are late. There are the chronic latecomers, who should be ... well, you know. But living in the SF Bay Area, I allow a tremendous amount of time to get to the Airport. So far, I have yet to miss a flight, though I have come very close. I have allowed 2 1/2 hrs during a typically nontraffic time to get to SFO (35 miles from home) and have had to park in short term ($95 for 3 days) and RUN to check in and board (Int'l flight).

I also have (some) sympathy for infrequent travellers who may not have travelled in awhile, as now it takes over 1/2 hr to park your car at SJC and then wind around the long term lot, until getting to the terminal. Or others that are unfamiliar, but really try to get there on time.

I suppose I'm fortunate in that almost every airport that I can recall in the past few years has a preferred line for me.

Also, as annoyed as I would have been with your experience, I'd put the blame on the airline for not having a special line for you. I'd also try and remember that there will yet be another day, no matter what I do, and how hard I try to arrive in plenty of time, that something will happen.

I think you have to ask yourself, If I ws the person running late.....

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule.

If in letting someone , who was running late, go ahead of me, I didnt miss my flight, but it enabled them to make their flight. Of course I'd do it.

And if the airline asked, and they have once in awhile, i wouldn't ask well whats in it for me, a smile and thank you and the satisfaction of knowing I showed some kindness to a stranger would be more than enough.



[This message has been edited by Boomer (edited 07-31-2000).]

Ordinarilly, I am happy to let people in front of me. I think of myself as a flawed, but generally generous and nice person. However, after giving this some thought, I believe that this policy fosters laziness and allows some to take the generous of others for granted. For example- we were not asked if we were willing to allow the late-comers to move to the front of the line- it was imposed upon us. Additionally, at least a dozen passengers took advantage of this offer. Not one said a word of thanks to any of the PAX in line. In my opinion, if you show up 25 minutes before a flight that leaves in the middle of the night when there is no traffic, that's your own fault, and those are the choices you make.

So, what lesson does this teach me or the children who were in line? What it says to them is that the late-comers get a reward- no wait. The people who play by the rules get punished. Why then, in the future, would these same people not perpetually arrive late, knowing the kindness of some stranger or the indifference of an airline will make sure they don't have to wait. This, in my opinion, is wrong.

So much for "cheaters never prosper".

freefaller: let me get this straight, if a customer service rep for an airline asked you to let ahead of you, so they wouldnt miss their flight, you'd actually ask "how much are you going to give me?"

I sure hope someday, you miss an important flight because someone doesnt let you in front of them. Maybe their time was valuable also.

I like Boomer's response and agree with the logic expressed as long as it isn't someone that is habitually late. Late for their own funeral types I mean. They deserve to be left fretting in line and then a few missed flights might cure them of the habit.

I do know though that a number of customers that are allowed to cut in front of a check-in line do so for very good reasons and with the airline's permission. It could be due to the traveller receiving notification of a serious illness, accident or pending death of a family member or friend in another city. They drop everything, throw some clothes in a bag and dash to the airport to catch the next flight out. That next flight could be just leaving.

Sometimes, although traffic is good, they could have been caught up behind a road accident or even been in a fender bender themselves. I know of two flights this year where the departures were both delayed because the crew in their transport to the airport were involved in accidents.

A good reason would always be acceptable for me. Just my 2/100th of a dollar's worth.

Just yesterday, while waiting in the Platinum Service Center line (maybe 6 of us in line with two agents...best ratio at ORD) the guy behind me was going on and on about missing his flight for all the time he had to spend in line. I ignored him, since he was not actually talking to me. Over an hour later, I saw him up at the Admirals Club having his drink refreshed.

BoSoxFan45 -- While I perfectly understand your discontent, I most certainly can not agree with you painting all the late passengers as cheaters. Give other people benefit of the doubt, as one day you may find yourself in their shoes.

I completely agree. There are 2 sides to this situation, which is, to me, what makes it an interesting moral dilema. On one side, you help those in need of the occasional lift, and on the other side, you reinforce habits of some who consistently tread upon others.

I think the airline should have asked people to let others go ahead, instead of commanding it. Social pressure would have ensured the same result, but willingly.
And I think the people who got bumped to the front of the line should have thanked at least one person they moved ahead of.

I agree with Boomer completely. If you are only inconvenienced by extra waiting, so be it. Yes, airlines often don't staff the counters properly. Yes, lazy people will benefit over others.

But part of being generous is realizing that you're going to be treated unfairly, yet tolerating that for the benefit of others. That's something we all could be better at.

And you never know why some people are late. I usually arrive at the airport about 90 minutes before a flight. But a few months ago, we spent 25 minutes trying to hail a cab in Manhattan, and by the time we got to EWR, it was about 35 minutes before flight. The cabbie dropped us at the wrong terminal, so we took the monorail and then waited in line. We got to the front about 15 minutes before, and they wouldn't let us on the flight. So we endured a three-hour wait for the next one.

Were we on a strict timetable, that could've been bad. Either way, it would've been nice to have been able to check in right away and make our flight. Yet it was the same generosity that I'm endorsing that kept me from asking others if I could pass them in line, despite my need.

This problem is caused by the airlines.

It is nice that many of you would let the person go in front as I did when asked. My getting out of line delayed me, someone going to the front delays everyone in that line. If the airline moves some people to the front, that is one thing. When someone near the front lets someone in line, they make a decision for a lot of people behind them that might also have a time problem or have one created for them.

If you want to get an idea of what people in general really feel then I provide the following example that we have all seen.

Plane lands very late. It lands into a major hub. People are asked to remain in their seats and allow only those few passengers that are in major jeopardy of missing their connection to get off first. This seems to accelerate the number of people that get out of their seats before the "fasten seat belt light" goes off and almost everyone crowds the aisle and the poor people that had 60 minutes to make connections, find that the 10 minutes left quickly disappears as the slow progression of "everyone" getting off first blocks those truly in need. That is when there is no question that some have an issue and yet the majority of people just push and shove anyway.

Generalization:

"Everyone" is in a hurry, that is why we fly.

Back to the airlines. They know in advance how many passengers are coming, about when and with how much luggage. The lines could "alway" not exceed 15 minutes if they really wanted to make them so. As for the late plane, perhaps more ontime flights would be a goal they could try.

Bosox, I agree. People can and do abuse the kindness of others. However, unless I've seen the specific person before, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think the message I'd want to send to my children, I dont have any(That I know of http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )
would be "be kind to thy fellow person" as opposed to "cheaters never prosper".

One time I was connecting in (I think) MSP and the person in front of me was very rude to the gate agent. About 10 mins later, I'm checking into the NW worldclub. Who's in front of me? you guessed it. Only he his membership card has expired. Now if he was nice to the gate agent, I might have invited him in as a guest, but since he was rude to her, I let the idiot pay.

Also, see the following thread from about a year ago, I had another run in with a jerk, boy I must attract these sorts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/001821.html

I agree 100% with boomer! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW, OMNI - Listening to Dennis Miller in the background on MNF right now (13-0 NE over SF) I also feel really bad about the other Boomer having been replaced! A bit sad, in my view! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


In response to Boomer below:

Yes, but it's tough working with Al and Co, and they were so lacking in class the way they let him go and also..., well, a comedian replaces you and Al introduces him as 'someone who knows more about football than anyone I know!' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

BTW- Dennis Miller didn't quite seem ready for the regular season. Time will tell if viewers are ready for Dennis Miller.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/s/AP...ers-Debut.html


[This message has been edited by doc (edited 07-31-2000).]

Doc:

I don't miss that "other" Boomer at all http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

One of my primary goals in life is to avoid all lines. I have actually become quite adept at this and the only line I have not been able to find a way to consistently circumvent is security.

This usually is a most pressing problem when I am running like a madwoman for a standby flight. On those occasions when I am truly panicked and there is a long security line, I simply go to the front of the line and say, "I am about to miss my connection. Would it be ok with all of you if I cut ahead just this once?"

They are always happy to help me out. I guess that's one of the advantages of being an old lady who looks like she might be having a heart attack after running through an airport. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Northwest airlines makes FC passengers wait in line 50 minutes???

Does ANY other part of this question weigh as importantly as that one atrocity?

In June I was flying EWR-FLL with my wife, 3 year old son and 6 month infant. We live 90 minutes from the airport but managed to arrive 2 hours early for our noon departure. Our flight was cancelled and we had to wait 65 minutes in a line just to rebooked. There were only 7 or 8 people ahead of us and 4 agents but the line never moved. Despite begging and pleading and the intervention of a supervisor the best the airline could do is get us on the 7:15 am flight the next morning.

My wife and I awoke at 4 am and had to wake the children at 4:30 am so we could leave for the airport and arrive by 6 am. We arrived on time but could not believe our eyes. At 5:55 am the curb side check in lines, of which there were many, were so long that had we chosen to wait on them we would have missed our flight. The lines inside were even worse. I tried to cut the line and I actually got yelled at by the next few people in line who shouted things like "why don't you try getting to the airport on time" and "the end of the line is back there." Not wanting trouble I did not cut the line: instead my wife took the baby and cut in and nobody said a word including the people who yelled at me. We made our flight on time only because she cut in on the enormous line.

If anyone thinks what we did was wrong, please tell me what the solution is. We arrived at the airport at 5:55 am (with two children) for a 7:15 am flight (the only flight that the airline could reschedule us on) and we still had to cut the line to avoid missing our flight. What else should I have done? How early should one have to get to airport for a short domestic flight?

I was 1 and a 1/2 hours early for a first fight out of Oakland on Southwest to Salt Lake. They were running late getting us checked in. I had to check an oversized bag of computer equipment. The line got longer and longer. I missed my flight because they would not let anyone move up in line. About 50 of us missed our flights out that morning.
I caught the 4th fight to salt lake and Southwest did nothing about it. Not even drinks. I will never use them again no matter how good the price. If it is clearly the airlines fault they shoud have made calls for those who were about to miss flights.

QL - It happens all the time. Thank God for the Worldclubs! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif And the other airline lternatives! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Amazing NJ - You don't mention the carrier, but most (some more than others) would just as soon see you arrive a day or two early and camp out on line overnight - like you were trying to get Stones tickets at the Garden! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif And it's EWR too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Sorry to learn of these travails and only hope that matters improve - and quickly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

CUSTOMER FIRST! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I am all for helping people make their flight even if it means I have to stand in line that much longer. That is what we are all at the airport for, right?

Certainly it seems that the planning that goes in to staffing the counters often leaves ALLOT to be desired http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

. . . and from a 1999 trip:

"SK from CPH was late because they didn’t have the flight log for the plane -- some bright spark had left it in Stockholm and we sat on the tarmack for 40 minutes while they got special permission to leave without it/get a replacement. As a result we arrived late in LHR which caused additional problems. LH/SK were unable to issue all boarding passes when I checked at the start of my flights in GVA.

Once at LHR, I had to go out through security even though I was in transit in the same terminal. I probably should have gone out through arrivals through regular customs and back through regular security and I would have had less anxiety. Anyway, one of the security personnel got me to jump the queue (hence this post) bypassing lots of passengers.

I got to AC check-in and they just redirected me back to the boarding gates where a buggy was waiting. They whisked me off to gate 29 where AC had my boarding passes prepared -- I was the last one on the plane.

Sure glad to have been able to jump the security queue (with permission of course)!

Amazing NJ-

First, I'm sure many other people were in a similar position to you in that circumstance. Just because you have kids gives you or anyone else no more rights than anyone else. The fault there is clearly with the airline for not getting the line moving.

In my circumstance, the line actually moved. It probably went a person per minute, and the counter was more or less adequately staffed. The problem was that about a dozen people arrived no more than 35 minutes before the flight. Had they missed their flight at 12:55 AM, it would have been their own fault.

I am in complete agreement that reasonable standards should be set as to the maximum time one must wait in line. But minimums should be set as well. And if you arrive at SeaTac 30-40 minutes before your flight with bags to check, that's kind of your own fault. I thought about this some more, and two things upset me-

First, not one of the tardy passengers ever acknowledged the inconvenience they put others through. Second, the people who were inconvenienced were not given the option of being inconvenienced, but were mandated to do so by Northwest. As much personal freedom we give up when we travel, it just annoyed me that my freedom to decide whether to let someone cut ahead of me was now gone, and my humanity in the eyes of the airline further eroded.

Amazing:

In a situation like that, I would recommend looking for a supervisor from the airline.

Another thing you can try, is to try and check-in at the airport club of the airline.

I agree with Bosox, that the airlines are to blame. But just because someone is getting on the line 35 mins before the flight, doesn't mean they didnt try a different line first, like curbside and it doesn't mean they didnt get to the airport on time.

Looks can be very deceiving.

Another thing, is you could check in at the gate, even with checked baggage,unless they are so large they won't fit in the xray machines. Just ask they to gate check the bags. I've done that once or twice at Newark when the lines were just too long.

[This message has been edited by Boomer (edited 08-01-2000).]

Not exactly. I would gladly step aside and allow a single or few pax to check-in not to miss thier flight. If an agent ask me to wait due to the airlines understaffing/inefficency I might ask for compensation (a club pass/upgrade/drink tix etc.) FROM THE AIRLINE.

I'm sorry you ill will on someone you disagree with. Personally, I hope no one misses a flight. The only goal in asking the airline for a "token" is to encourage them to avoid those situations in the future.

Freefaller12k

OMNI for Boomer-

The Great Dennis Miller Experiment didn't exactly start the way ABC had hoped.

The national rating for Miller's debut on ``Monday Night Football'' plummeted 28 percent from what the network drew for last year's preseason Hall of Fame Game.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/s/AP...ers-Debut.html

----
Go figure! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Actually I like both boomers just fine! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif But I've never been to his restaurant/bar! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Freefaller, thanks for the clarification.

I certainly dont want anyone to miss a flight.

I was responding to your post, I guess I took you statement a little too literally.


I appologize for the misunderstanding.

I can only assume this whole incident was at an airport without kerbside check-in and a Club of some kind? surely kerbside check in and boarding pass at the Club cuts out the 50 minute wait?

Surely that is what flying F gets you at the very least? If I saw huge lines, No F or Elite line, and there was NO kerbside, I'd simply roll up the bag to the club and ask nicely given the situation if they could take care of it.

One of the many things I thank my bruddar wanderlust for convincing me to do is to get a Red Carpet Club membership. I avoid the lines and the agents generally ask in long lines if there is someone with a short connection.

Thank you bruddar wanderlust.

But if I don't have a club membership for flying on another airline... I will try to check in at the gate.

Maybe I have an answer:

*About a half hour before the 10-minute/shut doors rule set up a separate check-in area that says "30 minute or less connection." Agent send the passengers to this exclusive line.

Don't know if it's practical for carriers in non-hubs or in smaller airports, but it's worth a shot maybe?

The only moral issue I see here is "judge not lest ye be judged." That's how I saw Boomer's hope-you-miss-a-flight post. I have tendencies to prejudge, too: at two of the three airlines I use out of BOS, when a flight is about to close, the wanderers call out "anyone for XXX on flight YYY come to the front," and I see people from all parts of the line coalesce in front, and I do sort of get steamed at those who have just arrived who zoom to the front. But I have to realize that they have their reasons, and the reasons are not always pure laziness or negligence.
-
The Cat's suggestion is good, but I wonder if the express line won't end up getting misused as well. To set up a 30-min line runs the risk of people relying on it, and then what would happen if that line got really long?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif no problem, my post wasn't that clear.

Freefaller12k

Here's a proposed solution.

Airlines should have an "express" counter. This express counter should be at no charge to Elite members, people flying first class, and people who are late due to some fault of the airline connection (the latter should get a "pass" letting them into this line).

Anyone else can also use this line, but must pay $50 per passenger to do so. Members of the airline's FF program can get one such free pass credited to their account each year they accumalte flight miles on the airline.

Reactions?

Airlines could have enough employees to staff their counter.