http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

PG - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif A bit "rough" - but funny! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

United at ORD has a 20 minute check in line. Only pax departing within 20 minutes can use the line and they check bags and more amazingly bags usually make it. And the line is always empty and stocked with 2-3 CSR's. I confess that if I get to ORD with 30 minutes to spare, need to check bags, and if the lines are long or the 1K lines are closed already, I will wait 10 minutes and walk right up to the 20 minute check in line.

PG,

Oh, how many times have we stood there in that same situation and thought that same thought.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

OZSTAMPS, of course they'd check YOUR bag at the club! I've seen your web site. Nice machine gun. Rule number 1 = ALWAYS check in the bag of the guy with a machine gun! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Chemical Bank, before they were bought out by Chase manhattan bank, had an interesting deal.

If you waiting more than 7 minutes to see a teller, they gave you 5 dollars.

In the year or so that they ran that offer, they most I ever waited was 6 mins http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Since we all know that the airlines lurk and see what we are posting maybe, just maybe, this topic can generate some good. And yes, I would like to buy that swampland in Florida! LOL

NW is NEVER adequately staffed at the front counter in CLT. I try to stick with only carry-ons, but sometimes that is just not possible.

Curbside checkin? No way, not on your life. Used to do it until our scuba gear disappeared a few years ago (only bag out of five that did not make it to the cruise line and it was not recognizable as dive gear). Airline paid and homeowner's covered most of the rest, but still a hassle!

Why, I even missed my original flight going to FAQ. While I was "pressing it" to pick up the Krispy Kreme's, the straw that broke the camel's back was waiting 18 minutes for the remote lot shuttle to arrive. I sprinted to the gate just in time to see the jetway peeling back. Since it was after 12 noon somewhere in the world, I kicked back in the lounge and quaffed a couple of Sam Adams' for breakfast.

I'll have to remember the post about sending the wife with one of the kids. That technique seemed to work well for someone. You folks without children, don't rush to judgement. You may next be seated next to the young child with the ear infection!

Bottom line: Airlines, get your act together before total anarchy reigns. FT'ers, don't assume your neighbor is a poor planner. Shift happens on the way to the airport. We've all been there before. And since you can't control something the other person is doing anyway, "Don't Worry, Be Happy!"

We all can and should plan for contingencies. Obviously we all have our own individual crosses to bear. My experience in life, however, leads me to believe that a lot of people in this society believe that THEIR personal problems are for more important than anyone else's.

99 times out of 100, they are not. Everyone should look at the consequences of thier actions and their impact upon others. When travelling, people should realize that their tardiness affects other passengers- consequently, as airlines aren't going to help us out on this one, we should all strive to plan ahead for possible contingencies to ensure we inconvenience other passengers as little as possible. After all, everyone has problems and responsibilities, and chances are, yours are no appreciably greater than anyone else's.

Good customer service, unfortunately, is frequently one of the casualties of the competitive, free market economy. As customers look for the lowest price airfares, they cause the airlines to constantly try to cut costs, and one result of that is the airlines try to make do with the absolute minimum ticket staff that they can get away with. Of course, the "hub and spoke" system of most airlines increases this problem, at least when flying out of a hub, since the airline arranges the flights into the hub in a group, to connect to a mass of flights all leaving the hub at the same time an hour or hour and a half later. That means that hordes of people typically descend on a hub for flights at one time. Ultimately, despite knowing the forces that cause much of the problems, though, I come down on the same side as Quiet Lion and others--it is ultimately the airlines' fault. The airlines know how many flights are taking off at particular times. They have a responsibility to have the ticket counters staffed so that you do not have to wait in line for an hour to get checked into a flight. 20 minutes, I think, is the absolute most that anyone should EVER have to wait in a line at the ticket counter. That way, anyone who gets to the airport a responsible 1 hour, or even a "cutting it close" 45 mins. prior to a flight should have no problems. Anytime I have been forced to wait longer than that, I have complained to the airlines.

Djlawman

The worst situations with airline checkin counters happens when there is a problem with cancelled or delayed flights and lotx of pax need to have their reservations changed.

There was a thread recently on the reasons why paper tickets are better than e-tickets. One of the upsides to e-tickets is that many airlines have installed kiosks for check-in that usually reduces the wait time, even with luggage.

Airlines really don't have an excuse for understaffing airport counters in airports where they have a large presence with many planes coming through during the day. The NW lines at MSP, for example, are either very long or very short -- rarely in between. It would be interesting to build a simulation model of an airport checkin area with all of the various things that happen that affect the amount of time (service time) for each customer, and an arrival rate that has the unusual pattern of heavy arrivals for the hour before a flight, then little until an hour before the next flight.

Let's say Koko airlines has a hub at THL. Between the hours of 4-6PM Koko has capacity of 5,497 pax departing THL. But Koko is a sophisticated airlines. Using the latest yield management models and techniques, Koko has determined that on average, 69% of those pax are connecting pax who have no need for check-in counter facilities. But being customer friendly, Koko staffs the counters with an expectation that 40% of those pax are originating at THL.

Well, that 69 is an average. By definition, that means there will be days when there are more, sometimes many more, pax than Koko can expeditiously handle even at the higher staffing level.

Thus Koko asks his pax to arrive at the airport at least an hour in advance of the departure time. Somtimes that is too much, sometimes it is just right.

But if you cant for whatever reason make it an hour before the flight, you pretty much forfeit your right to complain very loudly, IMHO. After all, what's the differnece between being stuck a mile from the airport in traffic that you cannont control as flight time comes and goes from being stuck in line as flight time comes and goes because you didn't make it to the airport an hour before the flight.

Anyone afforded special treatment in such instances should consider themselves lucky, and anyone inconvenienced by those being given special accomidation have a right to complain, IMHO.

And, BTW, YES, I have had 30 and 20 minute cut-offs come and go as I languished in line before. I get reeeeal mad...AT MYSELF.

BTWII: Yes, I know that not all airlines are as innocent as koko airlines, but that's what makes koko so special http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

But what if you get to the airport 60, 75 or even 90 minutes early for the "Koko" domestic flight only to find that even though every curbside check in area and every counter is open, the lines are sooooooo long that cutting the line is the only way to make your flight? Any thoughts? (Assume the pax have luggage and can not bring the luggage to the gate or to the airline club).

Join the club.

Go through security and then check in at any gate with no line.

Of course, you first need to learn the Golden Rule of Traveling--Never check bags.

When I travel alone it is carry on all the way. But when I am traveling with my wife and two children, carry on's are not an option with all the clothes, strollers, car seats, etc that we need. If I or anyone gets to the airport late because of our own fault it is tough on us. But when we arrived 80 minutes early in June at CO's hub in EWR the lines were so long at 6 am that we would have spent over an hour on line and probably missed our flight. The day before we spent 65 minutes on line with only 7-8 people ahead of us. The next morning there were hundreds of people on line It was a zoo. Something has to be done - perhaps an off site luggage check in where you can drop your luggage a day advance. I might even pay small fee for the service.

amazing nj, you can do just that with LH at FRA, MUC and DUS. Since there are few red eyes over here, if you head out the airport at 8PM it is usually pretty quiet. Maybe this would not work in the US as well as there are more redeyes, but I am still surprised no one offers it. Particularly good option for families who can't carry all their luggage on. I have to laugh at some people's admonitions to never check luggage - that is not always practical for long trips and/or if you are with children.

O.k.

This is going to strike a nerve, but...

I first started feeling this way about 2 months ago during the gas "crisis when I saw a CNN story about a family who had 5 kids who sent them to private school 15 miles away from his suburban home, who worked 30 miles away from his home. He and his wife each drove Suburbans, which get rather poor gas mileage. His quote was someting like: "We have no choice! We have 5 kids! We can't drive anything smaller and these gas prices hurt us the most!"

Well, aside from the obvious, (Drive a minivan), this guy failed to acknowledge that nobody made him have 5 kids. That was his volitional act. No matter what one's beliefs on contraception, or abortion, etc, it still takes a volitional act to have children. That is a choice. And obviously, it is a choice with consequences.

It seems to me that too many people today who are parents fail to acknowledge that choosing to have a child is a choice that has changed your life, and feel that they don't have to make any adjustments accordingly- ie. arriving at the airport earilier because it takes the family longer to get places and you need to check bags. I get this same line all the time - "Well, you don't have children..." like somehow I'm blessed or lucky or whatever... and I should feel guilty about that.

And I'm not one of those anti-kid people at all. My wife an I fully intend to have kids, when we are ready, which is not now, for a number of reasons. I recognize that I'll have to completely rearrange my life- including getting to the airport earlier than usual because I have bags to check.

Just my 2 cents. Not meant to be a mass generalization, but it seems that it's becoming a pattern. Also, there was an article in the Sunday NY Times Mag about people who are profoundly anti-kid, so it was on my mind.



[This message has been edited by BoSoxFan45 (edited 08-04-2000).]

80 minutes is cutting it close on a normal day (check-in 60 minutes before departure gives you 20 minutes to wait in line). Since your flight was cancelled the previous day, with no available seats the rest of the day, you definitely should have arrived at EWR earlier. By cutting in line, you may have caused someone else who arrived earlier than you to miss their flight.

When my wife and 3 kids and I travel, we arrive at the airport two hours early. The kids don't mind looking at planes (neither do I) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW we only take one normal size suitcase and one stroller. We use a laundromat, and rent a car seat with the rental car if the destination doesn't have mass transit.

[This message has been edited by JSrombough (edited 08-04-2000).]

OK not kid-hater but...how many times have you arrived early (esp for SWA) flt gotten a low number and then watched as someone with a child between baby (cute) and almost teenager go to the head of the line to "pre-board" early. I can recall once a family of 6 pre-boarding early due to 1 child about 6-7 years old...I would call that a bit of taking advantage of the system. At least some airlines pre-board F/B and FF members before the old "baby/child" group.

JSrombough: you said, getting to the airport about "80 minutes [in advance] is cutting it close on a normal day" but you do not seem to think that is totally unacceptable or say whether you think the airlines need to correct the problem of absurdly long check in lines. Therefore, IMHO, you are missing the whole point of this thread: no one (whether they have children or not) should have to wait 45 or 60 minutes or more on line. The airlines have a major problem with terribly long check-in lines and this problem is only going to get worse in the coming years as airplanes get bigger and fuller.

You seem to accept the fact that the lines are going to be long so you arrive 2 hours early and watch planes take off. I too fly alot with my children, some of it international. You seem to make assumptions about me which are just plain false: like you, I always arrive at the airport at least two hours or more in advance with just one suitcase for the four of us, and 1 stroller plus one carry on with toys, a change of clothes and food in case of being stuck on the tarmac. And while we wait, we watch the planes. We seem to have only two differences. First, I prefer to bring my own car seats because I use them on the plane for safety (my kids are very young). Second, I find it completely unacceptable that anyone should have to get to the airport 2 hours or more in advance for a domestic flight. If something is not done soon we will have to get to airport 3 or 4 or 5 early. I for one believe the airlines can do something about this and I think this forum is a great place to suggest ideas which the airlines may someday incorporate. On one recent occassion I arrived at 5:55 am which was 80 minutes early: whether I had kids or not, that should have been enough time. I have been to EWR airport enough times to judge the time it will take the lines to reach the counter and it would have been longer than 80 minutes. If getting to the airport 80 minutes early is not enough then the system need fixing.

In any event, welcome to this forum since that was your first post.

As for you BoSoxFan 45: you did not strike a nerve with me because I do not drive huge gas guzzling Suburban (I drive a Honda Accord) and I arrive at the airport early whether I am travelling with my kids or not. In fact, I go to the airport on weekends with my three year old just to watch planes take off and ride the monorail. We make a day of it. But I do maintain that my arriving 80 minutes early should have been sufficient and if it is not then like I said above, the system needs fixing. Nevertheless, we are lucky enough to live in a time when we (especially the people who read this web site) are able to fly almost anywhere, anytime for reasonable fare if you plan in advance. In having children I made a choice and I choose to fly with them as much as possible so they may see as much of this world that I can show them. I do not feel I am entitled to cut any lines, but if the lines are 80 minutes long I think I may choose to cut in rather than miss my flight. And until this problem is fixed I think I will get to the airport 150 minutes in advance...but it is not fair or right that people should have to spend so much time in line. I do not have all the answers but as a group the people on this site can make change and we should.

Amazing NJ-

I agree that waiting in line for an hour is unreasonable, which one of the main reasons I started this thread to begin with.

Airlines need to do something about this problem before there is "terminal rage". I will never forget the smug grin of the jerk who a week ago 25 minutes before his flight strolled to the front of a line of 50 people with a smug grin on his face at all the people who arrived in plenty of time.

Nonetheless, we are all spoiled and fortunate. We can afford to travel from one coast to the other for a reasonable price, and can accomplish this journey in half a day, in relative comfort.

I do believe airlines shold give you a ticket stamped with the time you got in line, and if you wait over 45 minutes by the time you are helped, then you get a free upgrade coupon, or something like that. I jsut hate lines, I hate cutters. I hate being treated like cattle.

I am flying twice tomorrow. One of my flights (ORD-LAX) is overbooked by 20. I'm sure it will be a mess. Maybe I can get a free ticket out of it.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Bosox:

What you stumbled on was the new american era of "somebody else is always to blame"

Not everyone feels this way, but it seems an increasing number of americans do.

I'd also wonder just how many people actually miss flights that they get to the airport within 20 mins of departure.

I never have. Anytime I've been to the airport within 20 mins of departure, I've somehow managed to make the flight.

One time at Newark, I was flying to seattle and missing my flight would have meant something like a 7 hr wait(if they had seats)

I had 2 lareg bags, so carry on wouldnt work and getting them through the Xray machines would have been a long shot.

The line by the skycaps was probably 25 deep, my flight was in 22 mins. I take out a crisp 20 dollar bill and say to the skycap
this is yours if you can check my bags
in 60 seconds. His response, "follow me"


Whatever happened to the old fashioned taking out a 10 dollar bill and waving in front of a skycap. Do that at newark, and your bags will be checked in less than 60 secs.

You go to a major airport and wave some green paper with Andy Jackson's or Alex Hamilton 's face on it, you'll be on your flight without a worry.

In general I admire very much the efficiency of US airlines/airports. But regarding check-in, lately, you got way behind the comfort some European airlines/airports offer.

For 'overseas'-departures from Zurich I have a choice of the following: [*]'normal' check-in as everywhere in the world[*]check-in at any time of the day I am departing (UA in N-America limits this to 4 hours before flight)[*]check-in at the airport the night before departure (starting 5PM)[*]if flying SR: check-in at the Swissôtel in Zurich-Oerlikon, until 2 hours before the flight[*]check-in at any of over 60 railway-stations, distributed all over Switzerland 24 hours before departure (until 2 hours before, depending on the distance/rail-connection to the airport) excluded are (for so-called 'safety-reasons') US-carrier flights and El Al. This service is called 'Fly-Rail-Baggage' and costs an extra SFr 20 per piece of luggage checked. The railway-stations do the complete check-in service with seat-assignements, boarding passes, etc. And railways and airlines make a profit out of this!

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 08-05-2000).]

Bosoxsfan45 wrote "I do believe airlines shold give you a ticket stamped with the time you got in line, and if you wait over 45 minutes by the time you are helped, then you get a free upgrade coupon"

I do believe this is one of the best ideas i have read on FT http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Boomer is right, works in London too.

Amazing NJ -- I agree that waiting in line for an hour or more is unacceptable. However, given that long waits are reality, one must arrive at the airport in plenty of time. Arriving just in the nick of time (80 min. is my opinion of "nick" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ) won't help the overall situation, and makes the immediate situation even worse.

Thanks for the welcome! (I followed a link here from PlaneBusiness)

BTW I usually fly out of LGA (I've recently lowered my acceptable EWR fares), and have not experienced a long wait at curb-side check-in (lucky maybe). Inside lines can get long, but I've already bought my ticket when I get to the airport http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif.

Re "... I do believe airlines shold give you a ticket stamped with the time you got in line, and if you wait over 45 minutes by the time you are helped, then you get a free upgrade coupon, or something like that..." (BoSoxFan45)

Upgrades are useless if everyone has one. You'll just have to wait! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


Beetee, I've also noticed that a third of the plane at SWA pre-boards. That's the problem with open seating. It's a tradeoff for the low unrestricted fares. Since I normally fly with restricted tickets, I don't fly SWA.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JSrombough:

Upgrades are useless if everyone has one. You'll just have to wait! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
I doubt that many people would be getting their upgrades if for a wait of over 30 minutes one recieved a system wide upgrade to be used at a future date. Airlines would make pretty certain that very few people had to wait more than 1/2 hour.

Ofcourse if they ever instituted a policy like that people in FT would be trying to figure out ways to make sure they were in line LONGER than 30mins so they could get the upgrade. I bet that rather than scowling at the family with 5 kids being moved to the head of the line we would see happy faces from all those in line as they dreamed of their upgrades http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif




[This message has been edited by Mvic (edited 08-06-2000).]

I think my record was getting to the airport two hours ahead and into a line of about 25 people at T-90 minutes, and reaching the desk at exactly the scheduled departure time! (This was YWG on the last day of the Pan American Games, so many passengers spoke no English or French, and also did not seem to understand that you can't carry five large suitcases onto the plane.) And there were quite a few people behind me too... with the next departure for ORD scheduled 11 hours later, they quite sensibly held the flight.