Hi all

I had a very interesting discussion with a few flyertalkers (flyertalk live) today regarding the subject of upgrades.

You see, apart from one experience when I was upgraded on Ansett to a seat in Business I have always flown coach - so I have no experience whatsoever of what you guys get up in front.
The reason for the discussion was that I now have 42,000 United miles, 40,000 Global Rewards points and 21,000 AA miles and yet I have yet to actually use points/miles for a free ticket -yes I've been so busy accruing them I've never got around to actually using them!

I had planned to get some economy tickets to places that I had not travelled to before but in our discussion various flyertalkers said that it was far better and more valuable to get upgrades. They made some comments about better food and that cabin staff treat you like a human being. Having always flown coach I am not familiar with this.

Naturally this has me intrigued. I'd like to know a little more. It was suggested however that perhaps I'd better not try out first after all because if I did it I would be unhappy every time I flew coach after that.
Some comments were made about 10 course meals which I found a little hard to believe. The lap dancing comments I took as a joke

I would have thought that exchanging miles for an economy ticket would have been better value. Travel is about getting from point A to point B and isn't upgrading a waste of miles when you could instead visit another country? Or am I wrong - is it really better to exchange those miles for an upgrade?

Please take into account the miles that I have above. My aim is to visit New Caledonia next and the comments I have received tempt me to exchange my miles and points for a First Class ticket on Air New Zealand via Auckland (ex Melbourne).

Also it has been suggested to me that it is not worth my while upgrading to Business/First here in Australia. When I was upgraded it was for a short flight and I didn't get any special service. It didn't seem all that much different - just a bit of extra leg room.

So are upgrades really worth it?

Hoping you can sway me one way or the other...

cheers Peter


[This message has been edited by ffhound (edited 08-05-2000).]

You certainly came up with a nice complete catchy title for your quest.

I try



cheers Peter

[This message has been edited by ffhound (edited 08-05-2000).]

This could be Flyertalk's motto. Lovely

ffhound,

You are the only one who can decide the best way for you to use your miles.

In my industry (Expositions), for instance, there are some people who actually acquire as many as a million miles a year through flying and creative use of their personal AMEX cards for all shipping, drayage, labor and travel expenses incurred on behalf of their companies. For people like this, who travel every week, enjoy company-paid travel and have a huge bank of miles, upgrading all business trips makes a lot of sense and they will still have plenty left over for dream vacation trips.

For the individual who travels just a few times a year, and is not required to regularly pay large company bills with their personal AMEX, miles are far more dear and might be best saved for a free coach ticket abroad.

For all those in the middle, the decision becomes more complicated and can only really be guided by that individual's own personal needs and desires.

My personal opinion would be that if you are young, healthy, not already spoiled by first-class, and have a moderate collection of miles, use them to fly coach somewhere you have never been before and enjoy yourself tremendously when you get there.

If, however, you do ever get a chance to fly first with Kokonutz as a seatmate, go for it. They really do offer him 10 course meals, bottles of wine to take home and even lap dancers (when the Queen is not present).

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 08-05-2000).]

FFHound,

Punki put the frequent flyer situation in a pretty accurate perspective. I will add my two cents, from the perspective of a middle to high mileage pup; via domestic flights only (sadness). Earnig miles "the hard way" I believe it is called. To wit:

Generally speaking, the best use of miles for us middle range folks (50,000-200,000 (total miles)/year maybe ?) is for upgrades. E.g., purchase a discounted ticket and then upgrade with miles. You get a more comfortable seat, are treated nicely and the food is up to modest restaurant standards. On international flights, I understand that first class food is up to middle range restaurant standards. In addition, you get the miles for the coach seat that you purchased and this of course helps to meet any qualifying status parameters that you may be shooting for.

If you do not earn many miles per year, let's say 50,000 or less, then I would use the miles for a free coach ticket and just let it go at that. On a sidenote, don't fret about being "spoiled" via one first class flight if you prefer to splurge on business or first. You will live with the pain of returning to steerage class just fine.

If you are a high mileage earner (I don't know how this is defined, but maybe 200,000+/year total miles earned (from all sources)) then I would use the miles for business or first at will. You would save the costs of the flight and presumably would not need to worry about meeting any mileage parameters or need to worry about conserving miles.

The lap dances are a new one, but, please direct me to any airlines which offer these. Now, there was one time that turburlence caused a young damsel to fall into my lap. Sadly, this was inadvertent. Ah well, one cannot have everything.

Just wouldn't believe me, would you ffhound? I tried to tell everyone in the chat room that we were BAD for telling you all the differences in FC.. lap dances aside! I feel like a gave a middle-schooler his first dose of heroin! But go ahead - become an upgrade junkie - then we'll see you more here!

We each have to decide what is important for ourselves.

Yes the food is better, but it's hardly gourmet. And if alcohol is your drug of choice, then FC gets you it for free.

Their is much more room, and you get better treatment.

Is worth the extra miles? Thats for you to
decide.

In terms of dollar per mile, upgrades get you more, but the assumes you would have paid the dollars.

Ask yourself, would you rather take 2 free trips in coach or one free trip in FC?

I love upgrades and I usually spend my miles on upgrades and I told you that in our chat last night. However, I do not have tons of miles to use so I have to decide carefully when and where to use them. In the US the First class service on flights under 3.5 hours is generally lame and not worth it TO ME to upgrade unless I have a coupon because I have limited miles to use. I try to upgrade on transcon or international routes.

Also, First or Business class seats on narrow body planes tend to be small. I fly alot from NY to Florida on small MD80 aircraft. The First seats are tiny, there is no entertainment and breakfast service is cereal and milk. An advance coach ticket on this route costs about $98-198 depending on the routing and for the price suits my needs just fine. Therefore, if your pool of miles is limited and you decide to go First class, try to save your miles for longer flights especially on international routes on wide body jets where the service is everything you expect it to be. If you have almost unlimited miles then there is no reason not to go First all the time.

Normally, I use my points for free coach tickets. However, I am using points for the first time ever to upgrade (CO miles for NW flights). I did consider the pros and cons, and decided that since it is a cross-country trip (EWR-DTW-LAX-MSP-EWR), with a connection, and on NW, it would be well worth it.

Thanks everyone

This is really quite an interesting discussion. Pity I don't drink - it makes my choice that bit harder.

What really puzzles me however is the idea that you get 'treated better' by cabin staff in First?

I have generally found that cabin staff are reasonably attentive in economy and generally nice enough. Are you suggesting that cabin staff are deliberately non-attentive and not nice to economy passengers and then the reverse to first class staff as this will encourage economy staff to buy first class tickets?

Could you please clarify and expand a little further what you mean by 'treated better' or 'treated nicer'?

If I ran an airline I'd insist that every passenger was treated nicely.

cheers Peter

Peter: For one thing higher ratio's of FAs to Passengers in Premium cabins mean the FAs have more time to be attentive.

Another is they have more goodies to be attentive with.

And finally, some cabin crew are good in First/Business and some are good in Economy. The airlines know this and allocate the crew where there talents are best served.

As an example if a FA is serving lunch in Economy, she gets to the passenger in front of you and he asks for a copy of the Herald Tribune and she 'nicely' offers to go fetch one from way-back straight away are you going to be happy that you were kept waiting? In First they have the time to give individual attention and they build the cabin timetable around you rather than the other way round.


Nick

Hmmmm

I think I'm starting to get the idea.
It is sort of like the service you get when you're a welcome guest in someone's home rather than just another customer in a bank queue.

Actually I think I'm already addicted. I have a nice cafe (Cafe Romano in Boronia, Melbourne)not far from home that I visit each Saturday. Apart from the food being very good and relatively cheap, the Romanian cafe owner and his staff are exceptionally pleasant, friendly and attentive. They keep asking how my wife is doing which is really nice. Naturally I make every effort to visit there when I'm hungry and out shopping.

So flying first class is sort of like this cafe with wings.

Sounds nice... and addictive...

Now I just have to find a domestic first class airline that gives neckrubs... come to think of it I just have to find a domestic first class airline!

cheers Peter





[This message has been edited by ffhound (edited 08-06-2000).]

Peter, flying coach on a domestic US carrier is definitely below the level of service and food on a domestic OZ carrier. Upgrading on a US domestic is much more of a necessity than upgrading on an OZ flight. I wouldn't waste points upgrading within OZ, even on a flight to Perth, and I'd use points to go somewhere new rather than upgrading on an Air New Zealand flight to New Caledonia. With the low-cost competition that is starting in OZ, you may soon see the same decrease in service there that now exists in the US. I'm old enough to remember when coach in the US was not that unpleasant. Cheers.

Thanks Texasflyer

My father lives in Perth so I do fly there from time to time. I must get up and visit my aunt in Cairns soon too.

Your point re upgrading within the land of Oz is well noted. One has to remember however that we do not have a real first class within Oz just a business class product. Perhaps someone can comment on what Qantas/Ansett business class is like within Australia aside from the extra leg room

The other side of the coin is however that it doesn't cost that much to upgrade. A trip round Australia in economy is 30,000 points on Qantas and Ansett. Business is 37,500 points Qantas and 45,000 Ansett. Given that I have been accruing a few Global Rewards points with my credit card it might actually be worth trying out the business class product. When I fly next I'll probably have my wife and newly born son or daughter with me as well so it might be nicer for my wife to have that little bit extra help with the newborn baby.

From http://www.frequentflyer.com.au tips section

Travelling with Infants
"When travelling with your kids that are under 3 years of age (domestic travel) book your travel in Business class if you can afford the points. Heaps more room, more baggage allowance, better food etc etc. Makes your holiday start and finish on a relaxed note." (Bill W)

Mind you I won't say no to any extra pampering too. The baby and I can take turns being pampered.

I do wish they gave footrubs.

cheers Peter



[This message has been edited by ffhound (edited 08-06-2000).]