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-   -   Credit Card bill before US Congress killing FF programs? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/2140758-credit-card-bill-before-us-congress-killing-ff-programs.html)

oliver2002 Apr 22, 2024 5:58 am

I think @Isochronous meant the CC users that live beyond their means and pay interest / late fees which equal the profits that banks make by issuing the card.

moondog Apr 22, 2024 10:34 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 36178984)
I think @Isochronous meant the CC users that live beyond their means and pay interest / late fees which equal the profits that banks make by issuing the card.

I'm guessing that is what he intended (i.e. that people who can't manage their finances support those who do), but that's not what's really going on here; outsized (v other countries) interchange fees/revenues are what make $1000 SUBs pencil economically for US issuers.

DeirdreTours Jun 8, 2024 7:55 am

Maybe large merchants can access that. But small merchants (like myself) have ZERO bargaining power on these charges. I assure you I am not getting .5% rate on debit cards. I only process about 125k a year in direct credit card transactions and about 500k a year in indirect (my product sold through large online platforms). I pay 3% transaction fee across the board. IF I was processing in person (card in hand, face to face), I could get it to 2.3% at best.

tmiw Jun 8, 2024 9:54 am


Originally Posted by DeirdreTours (Post 36291364)
Maybe large merchants can access that. But small merchants (like myself) have ZERO bargaining power on these charges. I assure you I am not getting .5% rate on debit cards. I only process about 125k a year in direct credit card transactions and about 500k a year in indirect (my product sold through large online platforms). I pay 3% transaction fee across the board. IF I was processing in person (card in hand, face to face), I could get it to 2.3% at best.

That brings up another point--assuming interchange is in fact forced down somehow, it's very possible the processors won't pass much (if any) of the savings onto their merchants. Though at least at the processor level, there is possibly enough competition to mitigate that (assuming merchants can get out of existing agreements relatively easily of course).

moondog Jun 8, 2024 9:57 am


Originally Posted by tmiw (Post 36291583)
That brings up another point--assuming interchange is in fact forced down somehow, it's very possible the processors won't pass much (if any) of the savings onto their merchants. Though at least at the processor level, there is possibly enough competition to mitigate that (assuming merchants can get out of existing agreements relatively easily of course).

Isn't passing through the savings to merchants pretty much the entire point?

tmiw Jun 8, 2024 10:05 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 36291591)
Isn't passing through the savings to merchants pretty much the entire point?

Of course, but considering the system we live under, I fully expect that any results from this won't be as good as anyone would like. I'd love to be proven wrong, though, even if that does mean vastly diminished CC rewards.

tmiw Aug 1, 2024 12:49 pm

Here's an op-ed from someone claiming that the Credit Card Competition Act will reduce card security by reducing the amount of money that Visa, MC, etc. have to combat fraud. Not only does the author assume that interchange paid by merchants will decrease (it very well might not, especially for a lot of smaller businesses), card security is arguably better in places with low interchange fees (like the EU) thanks to legally mandated 2FA for online purchases and PIN authentication for larger in-person ones.

Really, as I've said before, a legally mandated cap would be better than this bill (assuming this is actually a problem that should be solved, of course).

sokolov Nov 21, 2024 12:05 pm

It's not just about rewards. It's about perks that protect consumers: car rental insurance, extended warranty, purchase protection, luggage delay, hotel burglary, price protection, etc.

tmiw Nov 21, 2024 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by sokolov (Post 36687562)
It's not just about rewards. It's about perks that protect consumers: car rental insurance, extended warranty, purchase protection, luggage delay, hotel burglary, price protection, etc.

Many of those could theoretically be paid for via annual fees instead of interchange. Of course, it's more likely that many of those would go away entirely, especially on lower-end cards.

Caspavio Nov 26, 2024 10:56 am

i thought you couldnt accept payment with a visa card without going through the visa network?

Kagehitokiri Nov 28, 2024 11:40 am

wsj.com/opinion/dick-durbin-credit-card-bill-visa-mastercard-discover-rewards-programs-89f92b12

The new credit-card mandate would be a boon for Discover, which is based in Mr. Durbin's home state
durbin.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/durbin-marshall-welch-vance-introduce-bipartisan-credit-card-competition-act

banks in four-party card systems that have assets of over $100 billion cannot restrict the number of networks on which an electronic credit transaction may be processed to less than two unaffiliated networks, at least one of which must be outside of the top two largest networks.
if capital one is allowed to acquire discover, not sure if durbin will drop it, or if the virginia politicians will pick it up

quinella66 Nov 2, 2025 1:30 pm

I don’t see any benefit to the government getting involved in this - in fact it almost certainly would be worse. Just compliance with any new regulations will come at a cost likely offsetting any fee the free market sets.

While we can lament the 3% fees as having an impact on prices, what about the cost/risk of securely transporting large volumes of cash? I’m happy to not have to walk around with thousands in cash to buy a refrigerator, and the vendor gets the funds securely in an account without the same risk of theft. Even going to a farmers market it is easy and convenient and less labor intensive for a vendor to sign up and use Square with a simple device and a cell phone. I’m sure that increases sales.

Of course we are happy to collect the points or cash back - in fact I recommend that everyone should as long as they understand how the credit card works and don’t fall into the trap of high interest debt.

moondog Nov 2, 2025 2:53 pm

Companies like Walmart don't pay 3% interchange fees; independent retailers often do. These numbers have significant impact in low margin industries (e.g grocery).

I agree that this is something that the government could screw up, but it doesn't seem that complicated to me.


Isochronous Nov 2, 2025 8:21 pm


Originally Posted by quinella66 (Post 37405259)
I don’t see any benefit to the government getting involved in this - in fact it almost certainly would be worse. Just compliance with any new regulations will come at a cost likely offsetting any fee the free market sets.

While we can lament the 3% fees as having an impact on prices, what about the cost/risk of securely transporting large volumes of cash? I’m happy to not have to walk around with thousands in cash to buy a refrigerator, and the vendor gets the funds securely in an account without the same risk of theft. Even going to a farmers market it is easy and convenient and less labor intensive for a vendor to sign up and use Square with a simple device and a cell phone. I’m sure that increases sales.

Of course we are happy to collect the points or cash back - in fact I recommend that everyone should as long as they understand how the credit card works and don’t fall into the trap of high interest debt.

Totally agreed with this

DeirdreTours Dec 8, 2025 6:02 am


Originally Posted by quinella66 (Post 37405259)
I don’t see any benefit to the government getting involved in this - in fact it almost certainly would be worse. Just compliance with any new regulations will come at a cost likely offsetting any fee the free market sets.

While we can lament the 3% fees as having an impact on prices, what about the cost/risk of securely transporting large volumes of cash? I’m happy to not have to walk around with thousands in cash to buy a refrigerator, and the vendor gets the funds securely in an account without the same risk of theft. Even going to a farmers market it is easy and convenient and less labor intensive for a vendor to sign up and use Square with a simple device and a cell phone. I’m sure that increases sales.

Of course we are happy to collect the points or cash back - in fact I recommend that everyone should as long as they understand how the credit card works and don’t fall into the trap of high interest debt.

And yet, so many other countries manage to regulate these fees without major negative issues.


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