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-   -   Credit Card bill before US Congress killing FF programs? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/2140758-credit-card-bill-before-us-congress-killing-ff-programs.html)

islandoid Mar 14, 2024 3:09 pm


Originally Posted by mia (Post 36064418)
Welcome to Flyertalk.
I do understand that merchants would prefer to pay less, but to suggest that they should pay nothing needs further explanation.

Merchants generally don't pay for this, they pass the costs of card use in the form of higher prices. "The merchant cost pass-through results in a retail price increase of 1.42 percent for U.S. consumers and 1.71 percent for Canadian consumers...". (Felt et al. [2020] [Chart at bottom of p.44], "Distributional Effects of
Payment Card Pricing and Merchant Cost Pass-through in the United States and Canada," published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas.)

The system should be changed so that credit card users pay the cost of using their cards, rather than causing inflated prices by using them. Merchants should have to pay only for the hardware and software they use, and costs (if any) associated with their banking.

islandoid Mar 14, 2024 3:13 pm


Originally Posted by beachmouse (Post 36066967)
The problem is that US airlines lean very heavily on those credit card miles in order to operate in the black every year.

The airlines will just have to adjust their business models. It is simply a question of whether the airfare is paid directly by the traveler, or whether it is paid by a subsidy imposed on the general public through the higher prices caused by the use of credit cards and the "rewards" involved.

tmiw Mar 14, 2024 5:03 pm


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 35730078)
At this point, I'd be willing to support the bill in exchange for one consumer-friendly add-on: outlaw credit card surcharges / minimums everywhere in the U.S.

The reason why many of the previous state-level anti-surcharging laws went away was due to SCOTUS ruling against them on First Amendment grounds. I'm not sure if there's a way to write such a law that makes it viable (though IANAL so I'm probably wrong on that).


Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 35730078)
As much as I love miles/points, it seems too grossly self-serving to write my Congressman to say "keep this duopoly intact to keep my prices higher so that I can get points/miles on the back end." I get the banks' logic and the airlines' logic, but I totally realize that the 99% of the people in this world who aren't points/miles nerds should *not* want this.

Yep, especially since there are CC benefits other than points/miles (such as extended warranties and trip protection) that would very likely go away if this passes. Or at the very least, end up only applying if the transaction routes over the "more expensive" network (whatever that ends up being for the card being used), which I imagine will cause some nasty surprises for some who actually need to take advantage of those benefits.


Originally Posted by Hipplewm (Post 35731505)
AFAIK, this brings the US in line with roughly the same EU regulations and loyalty program still work there.

The EU in general has much better consumer protections than the US does. While the US arguably should improve those, I don't see that happening any time soon regardless of whether this bill passes.

islandoid Mar 15, 2024 1:49 pm


Originally Posted by tmiw (Post 36081063)
The reason why many of the previous state-level anti-surcharging laws went away was due to SCOTUS ruling against them on First Amendment grounds. I'm not sure if there's a way to write such a law that makes it viable (though IANAL so I'm probably wrong on that).

It would need to be done at the federal rather than state level. I'm pretty sure what came into play was the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, since the federal government has "occupied the field" of regulating the credit card industry. In fields that federal law (or the Constitution) have not occupied, individual states are free to set their own laws and regulations. Another aspect, usually enforced through case law, is the federal government's desire to have "uniformity" across the nation regarding how certain kinds of commerce operate, and such cases rely on the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, and what's called the Dormant Commerce Clause. Likely there is also a desire to have uniformity in how credit (and debit) cards operate across the nation.


Originally Posted by tmiw (Post 36081063)
Yep, especially since there are CC benefits other than points/miles (such as extended warranties and trip protection) that would very likely go away if this passes. ...

The card companies likely could still offer such benefits through their ability (from their large scale), to do them as group policies for their card holders. It may add a bit to the cost to card holders of each card use (or a particular card use), but nonetheless the insurance could be low-cost.

bigbuy Mar 16, 2024 4:04 am


Originally Posted by mia (Post 36064418)
Welcome to Flyertalk.



Where is the analysis to support this claim? Merchants benefit from accepting payment by card, and they should pay for the service. I do understand that merchants would prefer to pay less, but to suggest that they should pay nothing needs further explanation.

I'll back your question up mia. Use to own a retail business. Here are the figures for my average sales reciepts from my memory.
1- Cash $11
2- Check $14
3-Discover $17
4- Master Card $23
5- Visa $26
6- AMEX $31

islandoid Mar 16, 2024 1:15 pm


Originally Posted by bigbuy (Post 36084568)
I'll back your question up mia. Use to own a retail business. Here are the figures for my average sales reciepts from my memory.
1- Cash $11
2- Check $14
3-Discover $17
4- Master Card $23
5- Visa $26
6- AMEX $31

Thanks, BigBuy. I have tried replying twice to Mia's reply to me, but those replies haven't been posted to the board. My replies were on the up-and-up, so I have no idea why. She asked for info to back up what I said, and I was trying to provide it.

SanDiego1K Mar 16, 2024 2:45 pm


Originally Posted by islandoid (Post 36085579)
Thanks, BigBuy. I have tried replying twice to Mia's reply to me, but those replies haven't been posted to the board. My replies were on the up-and-up, so I have no idea why. She asked for info to back up what I said, and I was trying to provide it.

The posts are now approved. When a new member begins to participate - which we appreciate; it's the only way for the board to be sustained - the posts have to be approved. The forum mod has to be online, read the post and approve it. Everyone is a volunteer and there can be a delay in that happening. Thank you very much for your contribution.

islandoid Mar 16, 2024 3:21 pm

Thank you.

bigbuy Mar 16, 2024 3:28 pm


Originally Posted by islandoid (Post 36085579)
Thanks, BigBuy. I have tried replying twice to Mia's reply to me, but those replies haven't been posted to the board. My replies were on the up-and-up, so I have no idea why. She asked for info to back up what I said, and I was trying to provide it.

I'm pretty sure that mia refers to Miami international airport and that the poster is a guy but I may be wrong.

oliver2002 Mar 18, 2024 6:50 am

The economist had a nice article on the topic:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...74e07befdc.png

https://www.economist.com/special-re...the-rich-world

travelinmanS Mar 18, 2024 8:54 am

What will happen to all the travel blogs/trip report blogs? Without the allure of a first class trip to Paris using points earned from clicking on their sign up links, I’m not sure how they survive.

tmiw Mar 18, 2024 1:45 pm


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 36089133)

$2.25 is probably the average but there are a lot of smaller stores that end up paying closer to $3, and possibly more if they're really getting screwed over by their processor. That's not to say that it's more expensive than cash for anyone, mind you, but I can see why stores in the US seem to dislike cards more than some other places I've been to.

(BTW, disabling JavaScript lets you read the article without the registration prompt if you don't have an Economist subscription.)

eddyatft Mar 19, 2024 1:58 am


Originally Posted by bigbuy (Post 36084568)
I'll back your question up mia. Use to own a retail business. Here are the figures for my average sales reciepts from my memory.
1- Cash $11
2- Check $14
3-Discover $17
4- Master Card $23
5- Visa $26
6- AMEX $31

I hope the list above indicates that users with those credit cards are spending more at your business.
But if the above are showing the inflated price because of credit card processing fee, then you make a lot more in profit ??

eddyatft Mar 19, 2024 2:04 am

I bet if they lowered the fee and most credit card users dropped the card, merchants would end up refusing to accept credit cards altogether.
I remember 20+ years ago, most merchants did not accept credit cards as either new technology or flatly refused to accept a "delayed" payment and the associated fee with a credit card.
Imagine bringing cash when you travel across the border and the hassle that comes with it.

oliver2002 Mar 19, 2024 2:14 am

Dropping the interchange to 0.2-0-3% was a major success factor for merchants in Europe to accept cards during the pandemic. CC acceptance was terrible in comparison to the US.


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