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Originally Posted by eddyatft
(Post 36091472)
I hope the list above indicates that users with those credit cards are spending more at your business.
But if the above are showing the inflated price because of credit card processing fee, then you make a lot more in profit ?? First, it was a supermarket which is highly competetive at around 2% net margins in the USA Second, I was surrounded by 3 Walmart superstores which complicated pricing matters. The only reason I started accepting credit cards was when the Federal Government mandated swipe cards for Food Stamps and changed the name to EBT. Since I was required to install the system, I just added credit cards to the mix. |
Originally Posted by eddyatft
(Post 36091478)
I bet if they lowered the fee and most credit card users dropped the card, merchants would end up refusing to accept credit cards altogether.
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Originally Posted by LostInAmerica
(Post 35731557)
My understanding is that this addresses swipe fees and processing. A 3% fee charged to merchants is tough on small businesses. Airline and credit card issuers are opposed as it would cut into their margin which allows them to offer rewards as a form of kickback. As mentioned above, this is similar to EU regulations and rewards still work there.
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And the largest merchants/chains effectively pay far less than what is quoted above through a variety of means, whether through their volume, the marketing payments that they receive or other means. I would posit that the top 100 merchants in the US effectively pay less than 1% when everything is included (which is difficult to calculate ON PURPOSE. What do you think that Costco, which exclusively accepts only Visa pays?! Much less than that (especially as they are a private "experience"). I find all the "small merchant" verbiage to be a joke. How many times have I been in a genuine "small merchant" and been offered 5,10,25% off if I paid in Cash? Is it more about the small merchant being "killed" by a 2-3% cost, or the fact that the "small merchant" is solely trying to dodge taxes? Similarly as many restaurants are trying to mess with people with all sorts of mandatory and "suggested" fees and commissions, does that 2-3% really make a difference? Same with delivery companies, I very recently cancelled an Uber Eats order, when I found the following: My $68.XX order included a $2.99 delivery fee, an $8.99 harmony fee (or some such other nonsense saying that it was necessary to get drivers wages over minimum wage in that State), A suggested (but automatically built in) 18% tip, and some of these were calculated AFTER taxes. On top of this when I looked directly at the restaurants own website I saw that each of the11 items ordered was a dollar cheaper when ordered direct (including 2 items which went from $2 to $3!) So this means in essence that a $36 dollar order was now going to cost me almost $69 or almost twice as much! So does this included 2.5% even mean anything in this calculation?
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Originally Posted by OtherGuy
(Post 36106838)
It's not really 3%. It's closer to 1%, but merchants are too stupid to shop around. If they did, they'd find other options closer to the true interchange rates, and getting it as low as 0.05% for debit cards.
(BTW, restaurants seem to be paying some of the highest interchange rates right now. This might explain why surcharging seems to be more common at those than most other places.)
Originally Posted by hfly
(Post 36107401)
Is it more about the small merchant being "killed" by a 2-3% cost, or the fact that the "small merchant" is solely trying to dodge taxes?
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Generally I find that they fight it until they cannot anymore, and then just accept the situation. Sort of like how London taxi drivers would never have CC machines, then they did, but they were always out of order, unless miraculously one was taking a 50 quid plus trip, then Uber and others started taking all their cookies and they acquiesced. No restaurant can stay in business unless its margins on food run greater than 30% and beverages 70%, credit cards have been a factor in the restaurant business for over 60 years, an extra point of interchange and other fees is not what can hurt such businesses, whether big or small establishments.
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I don't believe in free lunches and I'm pretty dubious of anything coming out of Durbin's office or mouth. If airlines and hotels need the revenue these loyalty program credit cards generate they will have to make it up with increased prices and fees. The end result will be no better for the consumer.
The big problem with this bill is that we have achieved a general economic stability with regard to the cost of goods and transactions. Some businesses offer cash discounts, others choose to add a surcharge for using credit cards, and still others just roll the charges up into the overall price. The latter solution means people using cash effectively pay for a service they don't use but figuring out the transaction is easier and quicker and many (most?) don't think it's worth the time and effort to save 3-4% on their bill. At the end of the day, I think this bill is just one more example of legislation that adds bloat to the federal code without making things any easier or cheaper for consumers, producers, or merchants. |
Personally I think that the airlines & influencers are lobbying hard for that extra 3%. I don't think that it will majorly affect rewards. I don't think we get much in terms of rewards as of such anyway. We've learned to accept the quid pro quo. We think we're getting so much, but it's barely anything. When I heard of this legislation, all I thought was, oh no, I'll just go back to using cash or debit and no credit cards if the credit card companies can't offer me anything except the ability to purchase a large purchase ahead of being able to afford it. The amount of interest that these credit card companies get is predatory. So I don't feel bad that these airlines and VISA/MC aren't getting even more skin off our backs. We as customers need to be more media savy. I mean, they quote the Points Guy to make it seem like they're giving a voice to the rewards customers, but in reality the article is only giving a louder voice to an influencer who will definitely loose their cash cow if this legislation gets pushed through.
Could there be improvement to the legislation? Oh heck yeah. But it's a small step in the right general direction. I think as consumers we should be bolstering our support for small businesses. If God forbid something should deteriorate in terms of talks or communication with global providers, we need to be able to rely on small local businesses to provide for our needs. |
Originally Posted by jayta78
(Post 36150475)
I don't think that it will majorly affect rewards.
Originally Posted by jayta78
(Post 36150475)
I'll just go back to using cash or debit and no credit cards if the credit card companies can't offer me anything except the ability to purchase a large purchase ahead of being able to afford it.
(Yes, per the supposed "zero liability" policies of banks and the protections given to us by laws such as the Electronic Funds Transfer Act, you're not supposed to be out money in the event of fraud. But that's not going to help you if that fraud causes you to overdraft and/or be late paying your normal bills.)
Originally Posted by jayta78
(Post 36150475)
But it's a small step in the right general direction.
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However, perhaps the same thing for debit cards can be done as they did with credit cards on Google pay or Apple pay where they come up with a virtual card number linked to the bank account number through the debit card? I think this is a viable alternative for those using debit cards. Personally I'd rather something to be done than keep it at the status quo. Small businesses are dying because locals don't support them enough with pressure on our government representatives to help the entrepreneurs or those who are trying to keep our own local economy thriving instead of all the big box stores and clubs. I love Europe for the reason that small businesses can survive and thrive and provide different and interesting ideas - different from the status quo
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Originally Posted by jayta78
(Post 36150659)
However, perhaps the same thing for debit cards can be done as they did with credit cards on Google pay or Apple pay where they come up with a virtual card number linked to the bank account number through the debit card?
Originally Posted by jayta78
(Post 36150659)
Small businesses are dying because locals don't support them enough with pressure on our government representatives to help the entrepreneurs or those who are trying to keep our own local economy thriving instead of all the big box stores and clubs. I love Europe for the reason that small businesses can survive and thrive and provide different and interesting ideas - different from the status quo
On top of that, many smaller stores may not even get the option to route credit cards over alternative networks without having to change their POS system and/or merchant processor. For instance, I don't see Square ever letting merchants route cards other than over the big four networks considering they never allowed debit routing in their entire existence as a company. |
Originally Posted by Hipplewm
(Post 35731505)
AFAIK, this brings the US in line with roughly the same EU regulations and loyalty program still work there.
EU interchange limit: for debit: 0.2% for credit: 0.3% Visa+MC card scheme fees are up the roof though since they are not limited under the EU law. So the only 'profit' an airline can make on a co branded card in the EU is 0.3%, and they still have to split that with the issueing bank. Thats why you don't see many consumer miles earning cobranded cards in the EU anymore. 2 expections: AmEx (since they are not restricted under the EU law) and corporate cards. Thats why you still see corp. cards with mugh higher cashback offers than consumer cards. Overall, a limit on interchange fees (and card scheme fees) is good for the consumer, since it brings down the price for the product. Its easy math, if the merchant has to pay less for payment transactions, they can lower the price. |
Originally Posted by fuyao
(Post 36150950)
2 expections: AmEx (since they are not restricted under the EU law) and corporate cards.
Thats why you still see corp. cards with mugh higher cashback offers than consumer cards.
Originally Posted by fuyao
(Post 36150950)
Overall, a limit on interchange fees (and card scheme fees) is good for the consumer, since it brings down the price for the product.
Its easy math, if the merchant has to pay less for payment transactions, they can lower the price. |
Credit cards are great. The smart benefit and the irresponsible and foolish pay. This is a good incentive structure.
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Originally Posted by Isochronous
(Post 36178669)
Credit cards are great. The smart benefit and the irresponsible and foolish pay. This is a good incentive structure.
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