No availability... anywhere???
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 766
No availability... anywhere???
I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable and experienced when it comes to award travel.
For 10 years, I booked 4-5 awards for 4 people, always in J or F, always on the same place, always during school breaks, and always TATL/TPAC.
So when kids stopped traveling with us, and we were no longer tied to a tight schedule, I thought we could go anywhere!
But I can't find anything at all.
For example, just searched AA.
No availability under 100K o/w ex NYC to some repositioning routes in S. Am or Asia, from now until end of calendar
DOH, AUH, HKG, TYO, AMM, TLV, EZE, GRU
UA is similar. Spotty availability here and there to Africa, nothing to Asia. DL didn't even bother checking.
Alliances are the same. Very little released to partners, and booking on own metal hugely expensive.
In the meantime, decent amount of sub-$4K fares. $4K, booked through AmEx Biz Plat or Chase Travel, is the equivalent of 133K pts o/w, including taxes, and 10-20K miles credited somewhere.
Somewhat more expensive, but not the huge difference like it was when TATL/TPAC was 100-150K r/t.
It may very well be that as our financial situation has changed, and we are no longer booking x4, that revenue flights will be the norm rather than exception.
Anyone else finding the same?
For 10 years, I booked 4-5 awards for 4 people, always in J or F, always on the same place, always during school breaks, and always TATL/TPAC.
So when kids stopped traveling with us, and we were no longer tied to a tight schedule, I thought we could go anywhere!
But I can't find anything at all.
For example, just searched AA.
No availability under 100K o/w ex NYC to some repositioning routes in S. Am or Asia, from now until end of calendar
DOH, AUH, HKG, TYO, AMM, TLV, EZE, GRU
UA is similar. Spotty availability here and there to Africa, nothing to Asia. DL didn't even bother checking.
Alliances are the same. Very little released to partners, and booking on own metal hugely expensive.
In the meantime, decent amount of sub-$4K fares. $4K, booked through AmEx Biz Plat or Chase Travel, is the equivalent of 133K pts o/w, including taxes, and 10-20K miles credited somewhere.
Somewhat more expensive, but not the huge difference like it was when TATL/TPAC was 100-150K r/t.
It may very well be that as our financial situation has changed, and we are no longer booking x4, that revenue flights will be the norm rather than exception.
Anyone else finding the same?
#2
Community Director Emerita




Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 35,561
I have miles in a number of programs so I have flexibility in my searches. I currently am finding decent availability in the SQ program. I move AMEX points to SQ. I have also had success booking SQ awards from my AS account. I also used AS miles for awards via DOH to ZNZ, and awards on JL from SGN-NRT-SAN. These are all for 2 people. I'm not having luck with my Flying Blue program where I had decent success a year or two back. The dates/routes I have tried to book have skyrocketed in points required.
I also subscribe to a newsletter that sends out alerts for premium award space. I get both text and email. I find it worth the $99 annual fee. It gets my creative juices flowing. He lets us know about routes where he finds multiple biz or F seats, then tells what programs can be used to book those awards. He also includes what transferable currency can be moved to those programs.
https://straighttothepoints.co/award-alerts/
Also, like you, we are open to buying tickets when we can't find award space. I have an alert set up for every thread in the premium fare forum. We purchased tickets to Oman last year when we couldn't find award space but could find ticket prices I considered acceptable.
I also subscribe to a newsletter that sends out alerts for premium award space. I get both text and email. I find it worth the $99 annual fee. It gets my creative juices flowing. He lets us know about routes where he finds multiple biz or F seats, then tells what programs can be used to book those awards. He also includes what transferable currency can be moved to those programs.
https://straighttothepoints.co/award-alerts/
Also, like you, we are open to buying tickets when we can't find award space. I have an alert set up for every thread in the premium fare forum. We purchased tickets to Oman last year when we couldn't find award space but could find ticket prices I considered acceptable.
#4


Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA ExPl, BA Gold, DL Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, probably some others
Posts: 4,932
Just about everyone has less availability than before the pandemic because of a combination of extra demand, fewer flights, and changes to FFPs.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,677
I'm finding the same. Our Europe trip this summer was on Amex MR points.
I do find options with UA for us. For Delta, domestic only. AA, a little of both. I'm really not happy that our Delta miles won't get us across an ocean anymore (except to Hawaii).
I do find options with UA for us. For Delta, domestic only. AA, a little of both. I'm really not happy that our Delta miles won't get us across an ocean anymore (except to Hawaii).
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,312
When are you booking for? I just booked a RT to Europe for the post-Christmas period and was able to come in at 120k roundtrip for 2x Polaris tickets.
I agree with the above that some of the availability comes from using miles within the specific program you are booking (the above UA tickets were UA discounting IN for premier members so someone booking with Aeroplan wouldn't have had access). Likewise I see pretty good availability on AF/KL metal when searching via FlyingBlue and SQ has good options since they restrict J/F from partners.
Don't forget you've got the World Cup in DOH at the end of the year so many of the major airlines have sold actual revenue tickets to DOH that are using space on trunk routes into the hubs before they connect on to DOH. The reason you see nothing with AA to Africa is because QR space has basically disappeared in the lead up to the World Cup and of course AA doesn't fly there on their own.
And at least from the cities you've listed there are very legitimate reasons why availability is near impossible:
DOH/AUH -- see above
HKG -- China COVID policies and flight restrictions
TYO -- crazy demand due to restrictions just being lifted
TLV -- has never been an easy award ticket
EZE/GRU -- no surprise, this is Spring/Summer down there so lots of people traveling there, would bet any award seats on these routes for this time period were snapped up months ago. When we went to EZE pre pandemic I had to book 10 months in advance to get AA J seats for a September visit
I agree with the above that some of the availability comes from using miles within the specific program you are booking (the above UA tickets were UA discounting IN for premier members so someone booking with Aeroplan wouldn't have had access). Likewise I see pretty good availability on AF/KL metal when searching via FlyingBlue and SQ has good options since they restrict J/F from partners.
Don't forget you've got the World Cup in DOH at the end of the year so many of the major airlines have sold actual revenue tickets to DOH that are using space on trunk routes into the hubs before they connect on to DOH. The reason you see nothing with AA to Africa is because QR space has basically disappeared in the lead up to the World Cup and of course AA doesn't fly there on their own.
And at least from the cities you've listed there are very legitimate reasons why availability is near impossible:
DOH/AUH -- see above
HKG -- China COVID policies and flight restrictions
TYO -- crazy demand due to restrictions just being lifted
TLV -- has never been an easy award ticket
EZE/GRU -- no surprise, this is Spring/Summer down there so lots of people traveling there, would bet any award seats on these routes for this time period were snapped up months ago. When we went to EZE pre pandemic I had to book 10 months in advance to get AA J seats for a September visit
Last edited by Duke787; Sep 30, 2022 at 6:14 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott, IHG, Hyatt something
Posts: 34,503
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,010
I'm finding very few aspirational awards....2x J at good levels to anywhere long-haul.
On the plus side, I'm finding a lot of value on basic cash-replacement awards....simple 6500-mile Y awards on AA for $175-200 flights. With a kid in college, I'm redeeming a bunch of these types of trips these days. Less fun than it used to be, but if I do all the math on the cheap small awards I will probably find that I could just book revenue J seats every now and then at better value. As stevento points out, although the award game is worse, you can shop around for some good J fares that didn't exist 15-20 years ago when corp travel dominated the J cabin.
On the plus side, I'm finding a lot of value on basic cash-replacement awards....simple 6500-mile Y awards on AA for $175-200 flights. With a kid in college, I'm redeeming a bunch of these types of trips these days. Less fun than it used to be, but if I do all the math on the cheap small awards I will probably find that I could just book revenue J seats every now and then at better value. As stevento points out, although the award game is worse, you can shop around for some good J fares that didn't exist 15-20 years ago when corp travel dominated the J cabin.
#11


Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Plat, AA Gold LT, WS Plat, AC 50k
Posts: 1,999
However add the pandemic. Airlines have drastically reduced capacity also pent up demand in some markets, and uncertainty as what is the next curve ball Covid will throw at us. I presume that things will improve somewhat but the "good ol days" might be behind us. When I started in 2000, I was excited because I could book domestic first class for 25k miles even during holiday times when domestic F fares used to cost as much as $3000. Today I rarely see domestic F for 25k but that is alright because domestic F is so cheap that I tend to buy it if I want to fly it. What I look for 20 years later is Trans Atlantic J for 50k - 85k miles. However as the OP mentioned is getting much more difficult. But on the bright side I guess is I have now flown on sub $2000 trans Atlantic J flights and see more and more of those and less and less of point redemptions.
Unfortunately I am sitting on a boatload of airline miles but I am not sitting on a boatload of cash. Is this the end of the miles and points game? Not sure yet but things are definitely pointing more and more in that direction. I see availability in the off season and also some last minute availability which might be where points will really become useful in the future.
So Europe in October or February I might find good availability with points, but Europe in July or August you might be looking at cash back points and following discounted premium fares.
#12
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,010
Early June should have decent weather, lots of daylight, and we're a little ahead of the July/August crowds.
At some point we'll make the Singapore trip we had booked when Covid hit, but we'll probably just do paid seats. Sometimes I see decent Premium Economy sales to Asia...I have a hard time doing TPACs in plain ol' coach.
#13
Original Poster




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 766
I surrendered in my quest to use Alaska miles for CX J seats to Asia. So I changed tactics and grabbed Y seats to Scandinavia for late spring 2023. Was able to get 5 together, on Finnair, with minimal junk fees, 30k each way per seat (ex-ORD). There was also pretty wide availability for BA in Y, but with lots of fees.
Early June should have decent weather, lots of daylight, and we're a little ahead of the July/August crowds.
At some point we'll make the Singapore trip we had booked when Covid hit, but we'll probably just do paid seats. Sometimes I see decent Premium Economy sales to Asia...I have a hard time doing TPACs in plain ol' coach.
Early June should have decent weather, lots of daylight, and we're a little ahead of the July/August crowds.
At some point we'll make the Singapore trip we had booked when Covid hit, but we'll probably just do paid seats. Sometimes I see decent Premium Economy sales to Asia...I have a hard time doing TPACs in plain ol' coach.
That's roughly 100K MRs each way, plus the credited miles (plus some tax considerations that make it an even better deal in my case), on great airline.
Hard to beat deals like that. I love the flexibility of an award ticket (used AmEx's new cancel for any reason insurance, which added to the cost slightly), but it's also nice not having to search for days for availability that might never come...
#14


Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 2,152
Wanted to revive this thread as things only seem to be getting tougher. Have had decent success scoring a lot of transpac F awards for the next 11 months, and SQ continues to have decent availability in that area but I'm trying to go the other way in late May '23 and there doesn't appear to be much of anything at all. Have to position from Denver and trying to get to London but will settle for just about anywhere in Europe (ultimately want to be heading to Zurich by the 31st). Have scoured asiamiles, alaska, sq, ua, and a few other programs and haven't come up with anything decent. Might just go with Westjet for ~$1,900 which isn't bad - I'm just not used to paying XD I definitely don't have much experience with Europe oriented hunts as 99% of my flying is between Asia and the US. Any suggestions welcome!
#15

Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: LAX
Programs: UA
Posts: 2,211
Wanted to revive this thread as things only seem to be getting tougher. Have had decent success scoring a lot of transpac F awards for the next 11 months, and SQ continues to have decent availability in that area but I'm trying to go the other way in late May '23 and there doesn't appear to be much of anything at all. Have to position from Denver and trying to get to London but will settle for just about anywhere in Europe (ultimately want to be heading to Zurich by the 31st). Have scoured asiamiles, alaska, sq, ua, and a few other programs and haven't come up with anything decent. Might just go with Westjet for ~$1,900 which isn't bad - I'm just not used to paying XD I definitely don't have much experience with Europe oriented hunts as 99% of my flying is between Asia and the US. Any suggestions welcome!


