I sense a very disturbing diminishment of decorum on these boards. A brief history lesson: the original flyertalk was killed when participants lost respect for each other and for their host.

I, for one, do not want to see this happen again. I request a cessation to personal attacks, whether they be aimed at other flyertalkers, travel industry employees who participate here or anyone else for that matter.

I give and get a lot of information from these boards. I have established relationships here that transcend these boards. I will be very, very sad if the viciousness cannot be held in check and this forum devolves into a typical internet rant- and-flame-o-rama. We are better than this, people.

Look, I love a good fight and a great debate as much as the next person. But we�ve got to raise the level of our debate and stop getting personal. Please stop engaging in behavior that creates liability for our gracious host. Show some respect for your host...would you want invited guests in your house breaking the law? And please employ logic rather than emotion in arguments.

Yes, you are free to write and post whatever you want. But that doesn't mean you should.

And please don�t feel obligated to say, RIGHT ON! or BUT (S)HE STARTED IT! or even SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, YOU FLAMING HYPOCRITE.

But if you have a reasoned, rational, logical argument as to why decorum should not be observed, I�m all ears.

Otherwise, DECORUM, please

Hear Hear!!

Reminds me of my fraternity days.. and someone should be the chairman or the SGT at Arms LOL!

Anyway, personal attacks are never warranted.

Kokonutz, you ignorant slut! You are "all ears". I know. I've seen 'em in person. (Rim Shot) You can count on me not to lower myself to personal attacks against anyone on this board. Do you mind if I send you some rather nasty personal attacks via E-Mail, however? Or are you getting sick of reading those? (Rim Shot) You little half-baked twerp.

I know you're out there. I can hear you bleeding. (Rim Shot)

Forgive me for I have not read all the material that led to some of these posts.

My momie always said, "if you cannot say anything nice about someone, then do not say anything at all.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank PremEx for several posts that have helped me. I would also like to thank Catman for the e-mails of disagreement we have had, that let us share positions without living a stain on the board! I too have found that much of by reading has been restricted because of Postites, by some.

Several others have also been helpful, but I do not remember them by name, as that is not the point to me. It is unselfish sharing of information, sources of improved life thru the acquisition of ff points and other travel related "freebies", as well as, for some a big portion of their social life.

I use the board to get data, and ask a question now and again. Sometimes retorically and sometimes to gain some insight that I need.

I often reply to posts, where I believe my years of accumulated information and maturity may bring something to the table to help. I also offer coupons in exchange for SASE's when I can.

I would name some names of those I feel do not participate in a manor that I would appreciate, but that would be disrespectful to my momie's advice, and one should always respect their parents.

------------------
Only God does not have to travel

[This message has been edited by ranles (edited 03-02-2000).]

My mommie used to say,

"If you can't say something nice about someone, come sit next to me!"

This is going to be an attempt at fairness and compromise.

Any number of recent threads have highlighted some severe differences of opinion amongst our community:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/002345-1.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/001058.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000163.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/000834.html

I think it is appropriate to interpret Webflyer's lack of involvement in these debates as a hope on their part that we (as a community) can find a way to work out these differences.

I am personally disappointed with what I and many others perceive as a lessening of the quality of Flyertalk. I understand that still others perceive this feeling as an eliteist attitude which is unfair and unwarranted.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What we should all be able to agree on is that the sniping and positioning (whether in the open or simmering between the lines) makes Flyertalk and it's participants look foolish. "When a fool and a wise man argue, no one can tell them apart." This forum...all of us...won an Industry Impact award at this year's Freddies. No mater what you think of the value of that, Randy and his staff held us up in front of the movers and shakers of the travel industry. We were legitimatized and given the opportunity to (somewhat) speak for the frequent traveler. One more "how dare you personally attack me for personally attacking you for your personal attack" thread, and I think we'll just about be written off.

So, lets come up with our own charter and rules. I think we're all capable of making clear boundaries, and "keeping to our own side".

I'm happy to suggest them, but just as happy for others to give their opinion of where they should be.

I believe we should (as has been suggested) add a forum for web site bonuses, promotions, referrals and the like http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum73/HTML/000089.html .

I then believe another new forum should be created called "Flyertalker's advice", where "newbies" can post questions freely and without judgement. Those of us with any expertise or advice can drop in and provide any information we can - with the full understanding that every response is just someone's opinion.

Those two new forums, plus "Omni" should be totally off-limits from criticism, with no restrictions (other than obscenity). Unrelated posts, excessive posts, self- serving posts, whatever. No more arguements, criticisms or suggestions that posts here are in any way "bad".

The other forums should be limited to the topic of their namesake. "the Buzz" for "discussion of the latest Frequent Flyer buzz" and nothing else. "General Travel Talk" being 100% travel related with the exception of frequent travel programs. And so on...

We must each take "a pledge" that any infraction in anyone's interpretation will be respected. We must agree right now that a simple "I do not believe your post was appropriate for this forum" or "I believe you have made excessive posts in this forum" will be respected by each of us 100% of the time.

As for "in the news" - I think we should all agree to credit the source of a story, not post it verbatim, and provide links where necessary. Is that a bit of extra work? Perhaps, but after all, no one is forcing anyone to post there.

I think this is more than fair, but I'm open to other suggestions and opinions. Basically we can all agree to stay on our own side of the fence and all prosper from the Flyertalk experience in our own way, or have our last disagreement now, and simply loose so many posters that this board becomes irrelevant.

Opinions?

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-02-2000).]

NJ David, thank you for this well thought out and very helpful proposal. I believe it would sort things out more effectively. Of course, we will continue to disagree in the kinds of advice we offer, the airlines we favor, the hotels we prefer. But your structure would help us more readily avoid areas we are not interested in, and I hope our common interest in Flyer Talk would help us avoid personal disputes in these public forums.

No pledge for me unless it's sponsored by and sanctioned by InsideFlyer. I've run mailing lists and bulletin boards where the community tried to police itself and set rules. Doesn't work and never will.

If InsideFlyer cares to change its TOS for this bboard to include a pledge I'm all for it. Otherwise, I say you take the good with the bad to participate in a public forum and people need to deal with it like they would deal with someone they don't like with or agree with anywhere else.

I agree with dg1. I've served as a sysop (in volunteer capacity) on boards and mailing lists in my past too and find moderated boards to be quite good. I would have no problem if FT switched to a moderated format.

Hicktown, nowhere without laws may be able to survive, but can you imagine New York without rules?

Flyertalk has probably gotten too large to be totally freewheeling and "rule less". MANY of us (I know I have) have been guilty of some transgression of etiquette at some point in time and posting silly posts (why we created OMNI). A code of conduct would identify boundaries and moderators could keep us all in line (including me--gee I think I said that before).

Time to go have a beer. Hope you sort it out by the time I get back.

"most FT's try to ignore the nonsense, considering it to be irrelevant stimuli and hoping it will go away. That's what I do.

Once again, why not have some rules explicitly stated up front? Wht not a "signed" agreement by users to abide by them to retain participatory rights? Even within a broad self-regulating community of the type Randy & Co appears to prefer, this would be helpful and quite workable.

-Are multiple handles permitted?
-Is personal criticism permitted?
-Are friendly exchanges like "Thanks" etc., between FT's to be discouraged?
-Is their a broadband problem to be considered so as to limit our posts?
-Is a certain degree of anonymity permitted or actively discouraged?
-Are repeated exchanges between "undisclosed" family members/close friends permitted?
-What is the policy regarding tradgeties and posting them on FT? Is this discouraged?
-Is it acceptable for FT's to disclose personal information regarding other FT's specifically against their will?

I would not knowingly and willfully violate any of the "rules" of FT or any others for that matter. Yet, I've previously been attacked for having too many posts and this occurred again yesterday. I was alledged to have used multiple handles and roundly criticized for that as well despite the fact that this seems to be routine on the boards. I was hounded and severely harassed because I conducted online conversations within FT threads among members of my family who choose to remain anonymous. I was mocked and publicly scolded on the boards for supposedly violating my anonymity! And so forth, and so on...!

If there is/are no rule(s)/guideline(s) established, then one is only left to "judge" retroactively the behavior of others. Laws are not imposed retroctively, nor are punishments applied in this manner.

I try, as mush as humanly possible, like most FT's, to be a good citizen of FT. Guidelines, however vague, would probably serve us all well. How could they hurt?

Waiting for a policy statement,
Thanks for listening,

Mark"

BTW- This is in quotes because I proposed it to the board and to Flyertalk for consideration over 5 months ago. There was no response!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../000096-2.html

Hey Doc, maybe no one responded because they found it funny that the very guy they felt caused all the complaints, was himself offering a "solution" that would create rules for those who could control themselves! I take back every bad thing I've ever said about you. You are a genius! A master of sophistry! Post away with your usual consideration of others! I love you man!

Yes, naturally, of course. Thank you.

That's enough for me, I'm done- for good!

With all the sniping going on, and in hope of finding common ground, the first two Flyertakers to respond are invited as my guests (travel/lodging not included) to a one-day seminar in St. Paul on May 5th:

PEACEMAKING AND SPIRITUALITY: This seminar will examine the influence of spirituality upon the process of resolving interpersonal conflicts and making peace in the context of restorative justice within communities. Whereas conflict resolution theory and practice focuses upon a problem solving model to address the presenting dispute, peacemaking addresses conflict at a much deeper level. Peacemaking is based on a humanistic and transformative theory of conflict that draws heavily upon the ancient wisdom and practices of many diverse cultures. Within the context of these traditions, true peacemaking is inseparable from spirituality. For the purposes of this seminar, spirituality is not synonymous with the dogma and creeds of the major religious traditions in the world, even though religion for many may serve as a pathway to spirituality. Practices within the major religions of the world that foster peacemaking, however, will be explored, along with practices within Native American, Canadian Aboriginal, Native Hawaiian, African, New Zealand Maori, and Eastern cultural traditions.

Well NJDavid, I'll sign on to what you propose. I don't want to fight with anyone (and I don't think I have.)

Let's just spend the next three days cooling off and just try to enjoy the weekend.

That's it.