How do you guys generally decide when to fly first or business class? Is there a way to know which planes or which flight routes have updated and/or well appointed first class seats? There are many flights I've been on where I'd have been really upset wasting hard earned miles on those first class/business class seats.

Is this one of those things you just come to know through experience and reading lots of blogs or is there some source or formula you use to decide?

Depends on what carriers and aircraft you're flying. It's never worth it to fly domestic F.

Is that based on the fact that all domestic flights have sub par first class cabins or is it just personal opinion?

I was bumped from coach to first class several years ago on an SFO->JFK flight on United and it was quite nice.

Wecome to FT, PRedLSU! There are lots of different viewpoints here on that. But everyone here would agree that you first need to understand what sort of seat is on offer for a flight you're considering. The starting point is the plane type, or equipment in local parlance.

Once you know your airline and plane type, head over to seatguru.com to see what the premium class(es) are like. The might be barely better than coach. Or they might be flat bed fantastic.

From there you need to make a judgment call about how valuable the premium cabin is to you for a given flight. Obviously, the shorter the flight, the less important it is to get out of coach. Time of day can be important as well. If I know that I'll be dead tired and in need of sleep, the upgrade is much more valuable to me than if I know that I'll be awake throughout the flight.

If you're flying transcon, it's almost as though you're flying from New York to London. When I fly BOS/JFK/IAD-SFO, it's always worth it to fly domestic F -- especially on Virgin America.

The Los Angeles/San Francisco to New York JFK markets are premium markets for the legacy airlines, and so you'll get better seats and service on those than you would on other city pairs. I have purposefully routed mileage tickets in F/C to those flights since I felt it was worth it in some cases.

I know that I'll never pay for J or F. It's about availability, the spread in miles cost, between J & F on that program, & how may miles are left in my acct. I only use the miles on long-*ssed flights. I've been known to splurge on CX & SQ F, if the math is right. I can tolerate Y for 5 or 6 hrs, so I pay for shorter flights. wj

Thanks for the info dhuey. Do you find that seatguru will usually tell you if a F seat has completely reclining beds, etc...?

Also, I know you can often check the type of equipment when you purchase your ticket but can't airlines change that up in the days leading up to departure, thereby making the plan for F seats a fruitless endeavor?

There are some routes that have pretty much SET seat types. For example, Delta runs special 757s between LAX/SFO and JFK with their BusinessElite product. I've flown that route when it got subbed to a 767-300, but it was still the same seat, just without wifi.

But yes, unless that route is a specific route for a premium product, I wouldn't chase a special seat. I was supposed to fly EWR-ORD this weekend and connected to ORD-IAH-LAX on the United Dreamliner. They took 787 off that route that day. However, I switched to EWR-IAH-SFO on the 787 and SFO-LAX to get home, and still got the exact seat assignments I wanted. I was pretty lucky.

When KatyBug tells me to book first class, (or business class on international itins).

About 3+ hours is all she can take in coach.

pretty ridiculous just to come out and say it's never worth it. that's your opinion. my RT next June to Hawaii and back for 70k each in F, transiting thru DFW on their nicer F config will be worth it, to me. Especially for an 8+ hour flight

your example is as ridiculous.

Personal preference and miles availability.

To me, it seems wasteful on a shorthaul trip, but someone else might love it. There's no hard & fast rule or formula, just where you want to sit and how much you can afford to burn on the booking.

What's so ridiculous about flying to Hawaii in F for 70k? Maybe he just doesn't want to go to Asia or Europe. Maybe he can earn them faster than he can burn them. Should he just sit on his miles and let them depreciate in value?

Seatguru.com will give you that info., but as you observed, there is always the possibility that the airline will change the equipment on you.