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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 7:49 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ArizonaGuy
Unless we're talking TYP, Capital One Venture Miles, or other directly redeemable for statement credit points, then they have no impact to net worth.
Even for those kinds of points that you could redeem for cash, they are not a legally-held asset in their "points" form. In fact, the various "home-grown points" schemes of this world seem to be squishier and more likely to evaporate than even frequent-flier miles. I once held some sort of Amex that promised that you could convert points into Callaway golf clubs. That whole thing evaporated before I could redeem and I was left holding the bag. (Sadly, an empty bag with no golf clubs in it. ) My goodness, that was a stupid card to hold in my pre-Flyertalk days.

Once you take possession of the cash from a home-grown points scheme, only then do you hold an asset that should be recorded as part of your net worth.
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Old Jan 3, 2013 | 4:06 pm
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Originally Posted by pinniped
Even for those kinds of points that you could redeem for cash, they are not a legally-held asset in their "points" form.
Right, I know that. I guess I wasn't really reading into what the OP was asking - I wouldn't consider it a part of my actual net worth, just a potential net worth since I could in theory liquidate certain types of points fairly easily/rapidly for a set value. Only then would I actually add the meager amount (relatively so, for most of us, I assume) to my net worth total.
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 7:42 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by drbobguy
There is always that option as long as Chase keeps it there.

Remember how DL miles could be liquidated at 1 cpm if you had the Delta Amex, but they were suddenly devalued by about 50% in cash value. That's a huge devaluation with no advance notice to users.
Airlines have been playing with the exchange rate of the miles for years. In fact reducing the value of the miles is the main way they reduce the overall cost of the program.

If you want to see the current value of your miles sign up to Superfly we calculate the personal value of your miles by tracking your history (and how you use the miles) to get a specific net worth.

For most travelers, the net worth is less that 10k.
Looking forward to your feedback.

Thanks,
Jonathan
CEO Superfly
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 8:13 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by redtop43
ion and laptop in your net worth? Do you depreciate them every month?
i do what the banks do: mark-to-makebelieve
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 8:35 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by hobo13
You are apparently not familiar with Ultimate Rewards, which unlike Hyatt Points, can be redeemed for gift cards. Delta / AMEX have run various promos where you could cash out DL miles for 1 cpm, which, honestly isn't a bad deal for Skypesos.

So I would argue that miles are often more liquid than you think. Whether that gets the best return is another matter, but those looking to liquidate anything fast seldom get the best rate of return.

Do people include their cars in their net worth? Well, my miles are worth more than my car, not that that's saying much!
I think it's a matter of perspective. Even a million miles isn't really enough to put a noticable move in even a modest net worth @ 1cpm.

For the record, I don't include goods in my net worth. Including a car, no matter how expensive, seems foolish.

If you need to include 2-3k worth of miles in your net worth... You're probably doing it wrong.
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 8:43 am
  #51  
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Sort of on topic question but how many HHonors points is a SPG Point worth in peoples estimation?
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 9:48 am
  #52  
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Originally Posted by dcpilgrim
....in my net worth statement I project the future cost of taxes (I use 30%) on my tax deferred retirement accounts...
You are a lot more optimistic than I.

Originally Posted by ExpatSomchai
Sort of on topic question but how many HHonors points is a SPG Point worth in peoples estimation?
Many people estimate 4-5 HH ~ 1 SPG. But it's a matter of opinion, and it probably varies by what level of hotel you prefer.
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 9:36 pm
  #53  
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I agree that they can't can be included in the net worth in the strict sense. But these are valuable to me in that I don't have to spend ~6k every year for 4 tickets to India. Instead use the miles for the tickets.
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Old Jan 6, 2013 | 11:55 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by austin_modern
I think it's a matter of perspective. Even a million miles isn't really enough to put a noticable move in even a modest net worth @ 1cpm.

For the record, I don't include goods in my net worth. Including a car, no matter how expensive, seems foolish.

If you need to include 2-3k worth of miles in your net worth... You're probably doing it wrong.
Exactly how I feel too.
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Old Jan 7, 2013 | 12:08 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Beckles
I'm sure there are some folks on FT whose miles are a significant part of their net worth, I'm fortunate that even if I put a value on my miles (and I have a few million miles and hotel points) they are not a significant portion of my net worth, but that being said ...
The reality is, even though it's against the rules of the programs, I could liquidate miles more quickly than many other assets I own. I ... err, I mean a friend, has done this to a limited extent in the past so I am quite confident it is possible.

edited to add: Actually, I have liquidated UA, WN, and HHonors points/miles in just the past few months for work travel for which I was reimbursed cash by my firm, which at worst is in the gray area of the programs' rules since it was travel for myself they were redeemed for.
The liquidation of your miles / points - if via the work reimbursement route, it is only available to very lucky few.

Other methods of liquidation have high risk - you could be caught by the airlines (AA comes to mind) and your whole account is frozen, then miles confiscated ...

Also, have your read about how Chase closed people's UR pts earning cards because they are accused of violating program rules in transferring their UR pts to parties not their spousal units? I am sure before Chase put its foot down on this, people are freely selling / buying UR pts among co-workers and friends/families... But that is NOT a reliable way nor legit way, to liquid such "assets" which should be viewed more like a life enhancer that brings a lot of nicety to one's life otherwise would cost a lot to obtain. Enjoy them but dont treat them the way a house or a bank account or a stock portfolio is treated when you come to count your wealth.
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Old Jan 7, 2013 | 12:14 am
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The thought of miles as a net worth item is silly and you need to do some deep thinking if you value them as anything more than a perk that a relative, spouse or heir may have a little fun with but to include them in new worth is just crazy in my opinion. If anything a little note left behind that says please take a crazy trip after I die using xyz and I have written my account passwords here. Or fly the crazy family in to my funeral and put them up in a fancy hotel so all my miles are burned up.
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Old Jan 21, 2013 | 8:36 am
  #57  
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Originally Posted by drbobguy
I wouldn't count them either. As others have said the value varies widely. You can say miles are worth $X but when push comes to shove, if there's no availability, or a program is devalued, you might not get even close to the value you thought they were worth.

The whole fun part of the miles game to me is that they feel like they're "free." Of course I invest time in this as a hobby, but it doesn't feel like work, and while they have value, it is value that can only be redeemed through travel and experiencing the world. It's a great compliment to a solid personal financial foundation, but it can't be a replacement for one.
You are 100% right. That being said availability can be quantified. So if you have more flexibility when booking your travel, the value of your rewards will go up as well. S

At Superfly we ask a set of questions about how you use your miles, and use that information to asses the net worth.
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Old Jan 21, 2013 | 10:34 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Happy
The liquidation of your miles / points - if via the work reimbursement route, it is only available to very lucky few.

Other methods of liquidation have high risk - you could be caught by the airlines (AA comes to mind) and your whole account is frozen, then miles confiscated ...

Also, have your read about how Chase closed people's UR pts earning cards because they are accused of violating program rules in transferring their UR pts to parties not their spousal units? I am sure before Chase put its foot down on this, people are freely selling / buying UR pts among co-workers and friends/families... But that is NOT a reliable way nor legit way, to liquid such "assets" which should be viewed more like a life enhancer that brings a lot of nicety to one's life otherwise would cost a lot to obtain. Enjoy them but dont treat them the way a house or a bank account or a stock portfolio is treated when you come to count your wealth.
At the risk of being accused of whining - note that with regard to Chase (at least in my case) their own CSR's knowingly transferred people's points to non-spouses, and then they later came back and closed my account for T&C violations. In fact, a Chase CSR once told me (alas I do not have recorded proof of this) that it was perfectly alright to buy points from others. When they cancelled my credit card, they did let me keep the points, and I opened another account and transferred them.
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Old Jan 21, 2013 | 12:52 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by redtop43
At the risk of being accused of whining - note that with regard to Chase (at least in my case) their own CSR's knowingly transferred people's points to non-spouses, and then they later came back and closed my account for T&C violations. In fact, a Chase CSR once told me (alas I do not have recorded proof of this) that it was perfectly alright to buy points from others. When they cancelled my credit card, they did let me keep the points, and I opened another account and transferred them.
Have you posted an update to your thread in the Credit Card forum? Or mia merged it to the STICKY thread?

As I mentioned to you before, Chase would let you keep the points but would not allow you to keep the card that has the ability to transfer out to airlines/hotels.

Still, do you include the 0.01 value by X K's of your UR pts into your net worth calculation?

I think Centurion sums it up in his post below:

Originally Posted by Centurion
The thought of miles as a net worth item is silly and you need to do some deep thinking if you value them as anything more than a perk that a relative, spouse or heir may have a little fun with but to include them in new worth is just crazy in my opinion. If anything a little note left behind that says please take a crazy trip after I die using xyz and I have written my account passwords here. Or fly the crazy family in to my funeral and put them up in a fancy hotel so all my miles are burned up.
Like I always said, they are nice perks in life - add a lot of fun or save a lot of cash outlay for some family trips you have to do annually (to thousands miles away on the other side of the Oceans). But to try to calculate their "worth" on a perceived value and includes in your net worth? I think Centurion said it better than me.
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Old Jan 21, 2013 | 4:22 pm
  #60  
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To put it very simply, I see my miles and points as my travel bank account. They help me make most of my long-distance travel at a very low cost. I do seem them as separate from my financial net worth, yet I see them as an important adjunct to my net worth.
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