Optimizing miles on 2013 trips
Aug 8, 2012 | 9:43 am
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
You can have a North American gateway stopover if your origin or destination is in North America. So yeah, you could do MXP-NYC(stop)-other NA city. And then go from there to South America.
If you use Avios to go to South America, doing MXP-NYC(stop)-MIA would be good, then connect to AA or LAN to South America. Best yet, you'll still be protected against delays if you're on two tickets if both flights are operated by AA/LAN/OneWorld. So if you fly NYC-MIA on AA and connect to LAN MIA-South America, if your AA flight is delayed, they have a responsibility to help you connect to your next flight. Just make sure you book an eligible connecting, taking into account minimum connection times. I wouldn't stretch it, but it basically takes out the need to overnight at MIA.
If you use Avios to go to South America, doing MXP-NYC(stop)-MIA would be good, then connect to AA or LAN to South America. Best yet, you'll still be protected against delays if you're on two tickets if both flights are operated by AA/LAN/OneWorld. So if you fly NYC-MIA on AA and connect to LAN MIA-South America, if your AA flight is delayed, they have a responsibility to help you connect to your next flight. Just make sure you book an eligible connecting, taking into account minimum connection times. I wouldn't stretch it, but it basically takes out the need to overnight at MIA.
I know US allows stopovers and an open jaw on award trips, but don't (yet) see a way to utilize those rules to save miles. (And we only have 80k US miles, so we're really counting on another Grand Slam to help us out there...)
Or could I fly American one-way Europe-NYC(stop)-South America? Would they allow a stopover in that context?
Aug 10, 2012 | 12:05 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, United States
Programs: AA, BA, UA, Spirit, Delta, PC Plat, SPG Gold, HHonors Diamond, Club Carlson Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,735
Hi All,
I'd posted earlier in the AA forum about taking a RTW trip using their distance based award chart (such a good value!), but with a toddler, and the difficulty of pulling together that much vacation time, it probably won't happen. So here is my new question.
1. We'd like to go to South America. We have family in Bolivia, a few hours outside of La Paz, but that may not be the best place to cart around a 1-2 yr old. So we are thinking of visiting somewhere else in South America (Santiago and Buenos Aires are top choices) and having our family meet us there. We could possibly do two cities but probably not more than that. I also know that Northern South America is cheaper than Southern South America, so that is a consideration (e.g., maybe fly to Lima on miles and buy a ticket to a point south).
2. We'd like to go to Italy. The plan would be to spend a little time at Lake Como (so, flying into MXP) driving down and departing from FCO.
Here are our constraints:
--For both trips we'd like to travel in at least business class.
--We can pretty easily do a trip of about one business week (9 calendar days) or a little more on each trip.
--If there are some interesting tricks or ways to make the most of routing rules we're willing to tack on another city/country to the trip. (We might even be willing to do something like Caribbean + South America rather than Santiago/Buenos Aires, for example)
--We will be flying with a toddler. Although we could carry her as a lap infant, it would probably be easier to buy a ticket.
--Between the two of us, my wife and I have about 200k UA miles, 250k DL miles, 300k AA miles, 40k US miles, 100k Chase UR points, and 200k Amex MR points. So I think we have some options.
My question:
How can we optimize our use of miles on this trip? My current thinking is to use AA miles to South America and DL miles to Italy. I would really prefer to fly in J but I see that AA offers off peak awards to South America in Y which are tempting because they'd be so much cheaper.
As far as I can tell each of these trips will cost me 100k a person in J or 50-60k a person in Y (with the exception of the AA off peak to South America). Is there any way around this? Any clever tricks I'm missing? I know I can get a free stopover at the North American gateway with AA. Is there a way I can exploit this? Maybe use that stopover to set up the second trip somehow?
Thanks in advance!
I'd posted earlier in the AA forum about taking a RTW trip using their distance based award chart (such a good value!), but with a toddler, and the difficulty of pulling together that much vacation time, it probably won't happen. So here is my new question.
1. We'd like to go to South America. We have family in Bolivia, a few hours outside of La Paz, but that may not be the best place to cart around a 1-2 yr old. So we are thinking of visiting somewhere else in South America (Santiago and Buenos Aires are top choices) and having our family meet us there. We could possibly do two cities but probably not more than that. I also know that Northern South America is cheaper than Southern South America, so that is a consideration (e.g., maybe fly to Lima on miles and buy a ticket to a point south).
2. We'd like to go to Italy. The plan would be to spend a little time at Lake Como (so, flying into MXP) driving down and departing from FCO.
Here are our constraints:
--For both trips we'd like to travel in at least business class.
--We can pretty easily do a trip of about one business week (9 calendar days) or a little more on each trip.
--If there are some interesting tricks or ways to make the most of routing rules we're willing to tack on another city/country to the trip. (We might even be willing to do something like Caribbean + South America rather than Santiago/Buenos Aires, for example)
--We will be flying with a toddler. Although we could carry her as a lap infant, it would probably be easier to buy a ticket.
--Between the two of us, my wife and I have about 200k UA miles, 250k DL miles, 300k AA miles, 40k US miles, 100k Chase UR points, and 200k Amex MR points. So I think we have some options.
My question:
How can we optimize our use of miles on this trip? My current thinking is to use AA miles to South America and DL miles to Italy. I would really prefer to fly in J but I see that AA offers off peak awards to South America in Y which are tempting because they'd be so much cheaper.
As far as I can tell each of these trips will cost me 100k a person in J or 50-60k a person in Y (with the exception of the AA off peak to South America). Is there any way around this? Any clever tricks I'm missing? I know I can get a free stopover at the North American gateway with AA. Is there a way I can exploit this? Maybe use that stopover to set up the second trip somehow?
Thanks in advance!
1. AA has blocked super saver availability to Lima--couch OR Biz/First. Anytime rates will run you 120K miles (and their first class is a lousy domestic configuration, anyway).
2. United has plenty of availability to Lima on their own metal and on partners.
3. Delta also has decent availability to Lima, and I saw them go for around 100K.
4. Consider going to Lima and then to Puno (JUL). It's just 10K AA each way on LAN (and much less Avios, I believe 9K for RT!), the availability is great, and you and your relatives can enjoy Lake Titicaca. For your relatives it's supposedly an easy drive or a cheap cab ride from La Paz that again, supposedly, takes about 4 hrs.
5. You can have a free "stopover" in your NA gateway city. I'll give you an example of my own trip to make it clearer.
Next month I'm flying the following route: JFK-LIM-EWR by United (with LIM-IPC-LIM by LAN thrown in for good measure, but that's irrelevant
). And I added a one way to San Diego at the end of my trip. My itinerary is as follows:JFK-PTY-LIM by Copa (in couch)
LIM-YYZ (biz)- EWR (couch)
EWR-SAN (coach for now due to no F availability, but I will wait, until there is
).The reason why I was able to add San Diego is that I was careful NOT to fly by United that has Houston as a gateway city. My NA gateway city is New York. So I was able to add this one way to SAN for free (I could almost hear the Untied CSR scratching his head in disbelief
). And if you take business or first, your add on is also in business/first and you can change the dates with no additional fees. Hope it helps.
Last edited by mnscout; Aug 10, 2012 at 12:11 am
Aug 10, 2012 | 1:40 am
#18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, UA PS, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,906
Next month I'm flying the following route: JFK-LIM-EWR by United (with LIM-IPC-LIM by LAN thrown in for good measure, but that's irrelevant). And I added a one way to San Diego at the end of my trip. My itinerary is as follows:
JFK-PTY-LIM by Copa (in couch)
LIM-YYZ (biz)- EWR (couch)
EWR-SAN (coach for now due to no F availability, but I will wait, until there is).
The reason why I was able to add San Diego is that I was careful NOT to fly by United that has Houston as a gateway city. My NA gateway city is New York. So I was able to add this one way to SAN for free (I could almost hear the Untied CSR scratching his head in disbelief). And if you take business or first, your add on is also in business/first and you can change the dates with no additional fees. Hope it helps.
). And I added a one way to San Diego at the end of my trip. My itinerary is as follows:JFK-PTY-LIM by Copa (in couch)
LIM-YYZ (biz)- EWR (couch)
EWR-SAN (coach for now due to no F availability, but I will wait, until there is
).The reason why I was able to add San Diego is that I was careful NOT to fly by United that has Houston as a gateway city. My NA gateway city is New York. So I was able to add this one way to SAN for free (I could almost hear the Untied CSR scratching his head in disbelief
). And if you take business or first, your add on is also in business/first and you can change the dates with no additional fees. Hope it helps.
.The North American gateway city stopover rule is for American, not United. United allows a stopover anywhere as long as you book a round-trip. Round-trips can have 2 open jaws, and you had 1 (JFK-LIM, LIM-SAN, with a stopover in EWR).
A better example would be flying LIM-JFK(stop)-LAX-SAN on LAN/AA, and not flying via MIA, because then you'd have to take the stopover in MIA.
Aug 10, 2012 | 8:43 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
When taking a stopover at the North American gateway, are you limited only by MPM rules?
In other words, could I do the following:
March 1 2013: NYC-LIM
March 15 2013 (on AA): LIM-NYC(stop) ... and continue on to:
June 1 2013: NYC(stop from earlier)-FCO
June 15 2013: FCO-NYC
This would involve three one-way tickets, with a stopover in NYC for a few months between the trips.
Assuming that LIM-NYC-FCO is within the MPM of the LIM-FCO route, is this possible?
In other words, could I do the following:
March 1 2013: NYC-LIM
March 15 2013 (on AA): LIM-NYC(stop) ... and continue on to:
June 1 2013: NYC(stop from earlier)-FCO
June 15 2013: FCO-NYC
This would involve three one-way tickets, with a stopover in NYC for a few months between the trips.
Assuming that LIM-NYC-FCO is within the MPM of the LIM-FCO route, is this possible?
Aug 10, 2012 | 11:46 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, United States
Programs: AA, BA, UA, Spirit, Delta, PC Plat, SPG Gold, HHonors Diamond, Club Carlson Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,735
Actually, your North American gateway is YYZ .
The North American gateway city stopover rule is for American, not United. United allows a stopover anywhere as long as you book a round-trip. Round-trips can have 2 open jaws, and you had 1 (JFK-LIM, LIM-SAN, with a stopover in EWR).
A better example would be flying LIM-JFK(stop)-LAX-SAN on LAN/AA, and not flying via MIA, because then you'd have to take the stopover in MIA.
.The North American gateway city stopover rule is for American, not United. United allows a stopover anywhere as long as you book a round-trip. Round-trips can have 2 open jaws, and you had 1 (JFK-LIM, LIM-SAN, with a stopover in EWR).
A better example would be flying LIM-JFK(stop)-LAX-SAN on LAN/AA, and not flying via MIA, because then you'd have to take the stopover in MIA.
Aug 10, 2012 | 3:48 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
An update...
Hi All,
here is an update, and a bit of new info.
I'm flying NYC-HNL(stop)-SEA(stop)-NYC later this month on a DL award that cost me 135k miles. As a lowly Gold Medallion I'd have to pay $150/ticket to cancel but I think it's worth it, with the following theory (all miles per person, in J):
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. SEA-JFK(stop)-LIM (60k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (60k AA).
The only question outstanding is whether there is a published fare from SEA-LIM and whether I fall within the fare rules/MPM. If so, for my HNL/SEA trip and LIM trip, instead of 135k+100k=225, I'm looking at 185k, and even lower if I can find a sAAver award back from LIM.
Thanks for your help all!
here is an update, and a bit of new info.
I'm flying NYC-HNL(stop)-SEA(stop)-NYC later this month on a DL award that cost me 135k miles. As a lowly Gold Medallion I'd have to pay $150/ticket to cancel but I think it's worth it, with the following theory (all miles per person, in J):
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. SEA-JFK(stop)-LIM (60k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (60k AA).
The only question outstanding is whether there is a published fare from SEA-LIM and whether I fall within the fare rules/MPM. If so, for my HNL/SEA trip and LIM trip, instead of 135k+100k=225, I'm looking at 185k, and even lower if I can find a sAAver award back from LIM.
Thanks for your help all!
Aug 10, 2012 | 10:15 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, UA PS, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,906
When taking a stopover at the North American gateway, are you limited only by MPM rules?
In other words, could I do the following:
March 1 2013: NYC-LIM
March 15 2013 (on AA): LIM-NYC(stop) ... and continue on to:
June 1 2013: NYC(stop from earlier)-FCO
June 15 2013: FCO-NYC
This would involve three one-way tickets, with a stopover in NYC for a few months between the trips.
Assuming that LIM-NYC-FCO is within the MPM of the LIM-FCO route, is this possible?
In other words, could I do the following:
March 1 2013: NYC-LIM
March 15 2013 (on AA): LIM-NYC(stop) ... and continue on to:
June 1 2013: NYC(stop from earlier)-FCO
June 15 2013: FCO-NYC
This would involve three one-way tickets, with a stopover in NYC for a few months between the trips.
Assuming that LIM-NYC-FCO is within the MPM of the LIM-FCO route, is this possible?
Travel wholly within or between all other regions
These awards do not allow a connection via North America and therefore, do not include travel on American Airlines.
Travel via a third region is not allowed (Note the exception table below).
Routing exceptions
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between North America and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between North America and Africa.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and Africa.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between South America 2 and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Asia 1 allowed when traveling between North America and Asia 2.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between the Indian Sub-continent / Middle East and Asia 1.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and Africa.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and Europe.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and South Pacific.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and the Indian Sub-continent / Middle East.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East and the South Pacific.
Connection in South America 2 allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and the South Pacific.
Connection in the Asia 2 airport of Singapore or Bangkok (or possibly in addition, the Asia 1 airport of Tokyo Narita or Osaka) allowed when traveling between Europe and the South Pacific.
These awards do not allow a connection via North America and therefore, do not include travel on American Airlines.
Travel via a third region is not allowed (Note the exception table below).
Routing exceptions
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between North America and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between North America and Africa.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and Africa.
Connection in Europe allowed when traveling between South America 2 and the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East.
Connection in Asia 1 allowed when traveling between North America and Asia 2.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between the Indian Sub-continent / Middle East and Asia 1.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and Africa.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and Europe.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and South Pacific.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between Asia 1 and the Indian Sub-continent / Middle East.
Connection in Asia 2 allowed when traveling between the Indian Sub-Continent / Middle East and the South Pacific.
Connection in South America 2 allowed when traveling between Central / South America Zone 1 and the South Pacific.
Connection in the Asia 2 airport of Singapore or Bangkok (or possibly in addition, the Asia 1 airport of Tokyo Narita or Osaka) allowed when traveling between Europe and the South Pacific.
Any idea if you can do this with UA miles? LIM-EWR(stop)-FCO, FCO-JFK? The open-jaws are across 2 separate regions, but that shouldn't matter as LIM-NYC is the shorter of the two segments. And LIM-EWR-FCO falls within LIM-FCO MPM. Might want to look on the UA board
Last edited by amolkold; Aug 10, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Aug 10, 2012 | 10:36 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
Hey amolkold, I think booking UA would be more difficult for me because I have relatively few UA miles. But this is what I wound up doing.
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM (30k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (????).
I need to confirm the Avios availability -- the website is glitchy and the customer service number is closed. But I was able to squeeze out the NA stopover with AA, at the sAAver level, by going from YVR rather than SEA. To me this is no big deal, because YVR is only a 3 hour drive, and my flight back is in J class on CX which sure beats domestic F.
I have some time to figure out how to get back from LIM. But here I think your suggestion might work (LIM-EWR(stop)-FCO-JFK), if I can get the miles there.
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM (30k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (????).
I need to confirm the Avios availability -- the website is glitchy and the customer service number is closed. But I was able to squeeze out the NA stopover with AA, at the sAAver level, by going from YVR rather than SEA. To me this is no big deal, because YVR is only a 3 hour drive, and my flight back is in J class on CX which sure beats domestic F.
I have some time to figure out how to get back from LIM. But here I think your suggestion might work (LIM-EWR(stop)-FCO-JFK), if I can get the miles there.
Aug 10, 2012 | 10:43 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, UA PS, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,906
Hey amolkold, I think booking UA would be more difficult for me because I have relatively few UA miles. But this is what I wound up doing.
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM (30k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (????).
I need to confirm the Avios availability -- the website is glitchy and the customer service number is closed. But I was able to squeeze out the NA stopover with AA, at the sAAver level, by going from YVR rather than SEA. To me this is no big deal, because YVR is only a 3 hour drive, and my flight back is in J class on CX which sure beats domestic F.
I have some time to figure out how to get back from LIM. But here I think your suggestion might work (LIM-EWR(stop)-FCO-JFK), if I can get the miles there.
1. EWR-HNL, nonstop, UA (40k)
2. HNL-SEA, 1 stop, AS (25k Avios)
3. YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM (30k AA)
4. LIM-JFK (????).
I need to confirm the Avios availability -- the website is glitchy and the customer service number is closed. But I was able to squeeze out the NA stopover with AA, at the sAAver level, by going from YVR rather than SEA. To me this is no big deal, because YVR is only a 3 hour drive, and my flight back is in J class on CX which sure beats domestic F.
I have some time to figure out how to get back from LIM. But here I think your suggestion might work (LIM-EWR(stop)-FCO-JFK), if I can get the miles there.
HNL-SEA is either 12.5K Avios in Y or 37.5K Avios in F. Their front cabin is coded as First, not Business.
YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM is a wonderful redemption for 30K in J. ^
Aug 10, 2012 | 10:48 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
For EWR-HNL, look into transferring your AMEX MR points to Singapore Krisflyer, then use those to book on United. Instead of 40K one-way in coach, it's 35K using SQ. The only taxes you have to pay are the same ones as on United. It's 5K saving, but it opens up your United miles for other redemptions.
HNL-SEA is either 12.5K Avios in Y or 37.5K Avios in F. Their front cabin is coded as First, not Business.
YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM is a wonderful redemption for 30K in J. ^
HNL-SEA is either 12.5K Avios in Y or 37.5K Avios in F. Their front cabin is coded as First, not Business.
YVR-JFK(stop)-LIM is a wonderful redemption for 30K in J. ^
Thanks for the clarification on the Avios. Since it's the same as AA I'll probably just use AA miles. It will put more of a dent in my account but nothing too terrible.
Aug 10, 2012 | 10:50 pm
#26
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, UA PS, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,906
Should have clarified -- EWR-HNL is in BusinessFirst on UA, not coach. Not as nice as int'l J (I'm excited for CX and LA on my last legs) but well worth 40k imho.
Thanks for the clarification on the Avios. Since it's the same as AA I'll probably just use AA miles. It will put more of a dent in my account but nothing too terrible.
Thanks for the clarification on the Avios. Since it's the same as AA I'll probably just use AA miles. It will put more of a dent in my account but nothing too terrible.
Aug 10, 2012 | 11:05 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
Arg. Now the problem is that I seem to have taken the last two saver seats on EWR-HNL. So I'd have to cancel the UA reservation and risk missing out entirely to rebook using SQ. (I guess I could always take a connection at LAX or something...)
Aug 10, 2012 | 11:10 pm
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,657
The more I think about it I don't think I can risk incurring the wrath of the Mrs. (and baby) in an effort to save 10k miles...