Now I know where I have seen Catman, as verified by he following Catman quote:

"Some people in first give me a look like I don't belong there. I did not know that first class was restricted to only the allegedly beautiful and rich (with drooping pants, shirts sticking out, and shoes off, coming aboard drunk and passing out, saying its their right because they've paid 25 hundred dollars for a first class ticket.)"

JAWs

Sisters and brothers - what a provacative (sp?) thread!!! I am a newly-minted FF and am just beginning to enjoy FC - however - I am youthful in appearance and female and get the dirtiest looks from the grumpy old men in suits (the other folks in FC) and for the first time - got at-ti-tude from a FA when she was being sweet as honey to the others in FC (all grumpy old men in blue suits) - so - although I will continue to dress casually (sweats this am on a Sat flight) - I will also continue to try to make eye contact and say hello to the FA as I board - but I will now have a new way to amuse myself - I will be counting the other travelers by gender, age, appearance and will try to see if I can get back to you all with some sociological findings on the treatment of passengers in FC!!

Thank you Gabbysz. Your post is an amazing coincidence. I was just preparing to write UA my very first complaint letter telling them that they need to train their FAs to treat female biz travelers as well as they treat our male counterparts.

On my most recent flights, I have had my food rudely "dumped" on my tray while the man sitting across the aisle was pampered to no end. I've been passed over for drink orders, refills, etc.. I end up hanging up my own coat about 50% of the time. The worst part is the "attitude" some FAs have about women in biz/fc. You can physically feel it and it definitely makes my upgrade experience less appealing.

there is, of course, the reality that more men travel on business than women (or so it seems), which likely contributes to the negative ratio. as for F/A attitude, it seems (however simplistic this might sound) that some women just do not like to serve other women. it's an ego thing. when my wife travels alone she frequently has a bad experience, however if she is with me, for soeme reason the cabin staff is pleasant. in general, service on board is lousy. I travel mostly in first class (thanks to super elite status on 2 carriers), and often refer to myself as the "stealth" passenger. they go right by me as though the row was empty. and then there's getting a coat hung up........

Auh2o....I too had to "prove" my seat assigment(on CO). The FA thought she was slick by asking me (the only female in FC) if she could see a copy of my stub to view how many miles we would be credited for the flight. Why? Because a male across the aisle from me was inputting the mileage into his laptop and didn't have his?!! Now, granted I do not work in the aviation industry, but I would bet my favorite living creature (my cat) that FA's have that type of info readily available to them without having to ask me!!

I'm wondering if women who travel international business and first class are treated any differently (and more fairly) then in U-S domestic? Any insight, observations on this.

Again, I think it's stupid that F-A's would have the attitude to treat their opposite sex
as "COACH" class citizens.

IN my case, if I don't dress or look like a 250K a year businessman then sometimes I end
up hanging up my own coat (which I don't mind) or waiting for meals or drinks.

Generally it's a mix of male and female F-A's who treat me like a "COACH" class flyer. Unless they are cat lovers who see my Harrod's cat bag or the cat hair on my jacket. Then I'm set!

OMNI to TravelTooMuch: one of the basic rules of cat owners is NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PUT YOUR CAT UP AS A BET. DON"T
UNDERESTIMATE THE AWARENESS of THE CAT.

Although it's nice that you consider your cat your most prized possession. My YAZ & EDDIE
are the first things I'd grab in case of fire! CATMAN

I will add that it has been my experience, too, that FC is 90% male, but allow me to share this story about the last female I sat next to in FC.

We were in the bulkhead A / C seats and the overhead space above our row and the next two rows back were full or reserved for airline apparatus. Since there was no space other a small foot area in front of us, she could not place her brief case there.

It took no fewer than four FA's to convince her that someone will "pass the case" forward to her so she won't have to wait for the entire plane to empty before she was able to head to the fourth row overhead to pick up her case. Frankly, I was blown away by her attitude that no one would help nor did she want any.

In my case, I would feel comfortable asking someone to pass something forward or handing something to someone who couldn't reach it themselves.

Catman:

You asked whether things are any better in international business class. Unfortunately, based on my data points I would have to say that they are not. For example, my fiancee flew from SFO to HKG last week in business class on United. When she arrived, she was absolutely LIVID about the way she had been neglected while the businessmen in the seats surrounding her were pampered.

Apparently she was offered beverage service only twice during the 15 hour flight while the men in front of her were given unlimited refills. When she finally asked for a refill of her Port, the FA made a catty remark ;-) along the lines of: "Oh, the lady likes her liquor!"

HKF

This was an intersting business travel point to me, and I have to say I think the situatio reflects business in America. Meaning?? That there will be more and more women in F class, and fewer men in F class. I think that as more women executives come into the ranks breaking their own glass ceilings at work there will be an equal representation in F class. There will be fewer men in F class, and fewer people in F class as businesses try to cut costs.

My wife an exec. with a bank always goes F class. I asked her if she felt discriminated against. She said, "No, but it would be nice if they put some nice wines back in F class." Meaning? We, all us Fflyers, are receiving it from the airlines where the sun don't shine...

I think that, while the current situation doesn't represent a gender utopia -- enough women are on the rise that we should not be concerned with the current mix of F class people.

Another point, how many of us have turned down F class and kept the cash. We offer our employees (an 80% refund on the difference between C and Q class for taking economy). Most don't take it, but some do. Looking over travel expenses I've noticed that more women in our company take this than the men. Of course, the women have extra money to enjoy their destination after work...Oh well, too much to think about now.

Phil

Weekend trip Report: NYC to LA
Just returned from a short getaway with my husband in LA. We booked the following:
EWR-LAX-EWR on CO (Gold Elite Status)
Avis rental car (Preferred Select)
One Night at LAX Hilton (Gold VIP)
Van Gogh Package at Park Hyatt in Century City (Platinum Status)

Continental Flights: Buying cheapo airfares ($285 return)we were luckily upgraded in both directions, so I conducted an experiment that my husband willingly observed. Upon boarding, noone took my coat, but my husband's was almost ripped out of his hand as he boarded the plane! During the flight, the FA asked him if he wanted the seals broken on his liquor bottles or not, so he could just take the bottle with him if he chose. My husband was asked if he wanted wine with dinner, but my tray arrived with no wine glass and no request if I wanted wine.

Avis car rental: Here my husband knows what to do, he hands me all the heavy luggage, and the driver always lifts it into the van. When my husband carries it, the driver never helps. Chivalry is never dead at Avis! Although I booked a super cheap rate at Avis ($22/day for a full size) they upgraded me to Grand Prix GT with leather interior(advertised at $39/day)

Hilton: Stayed here for double/double promotion and super cheap corporate rate. Checked in at the front desk and requested upgrade to Towers based on confirmable certificate. Initially clerk did not give it to me and I had to argue with her for 2-3 minutes before she provided it. Also did want to take my CO number or Avis bonus points, again had to argue with her. Did not feel comfortable after this exchange and double checked with Towers concierge and lo and behold my CO number and Avis points were not in the computer. Towers concierge corrected my record.
Hilton then lost our rental car keys 30 minutes before we had to go to Beverly Hills for dinner at Spagos. When I called the concierge and requested that the hotel transport us to the restaurant, I was told to talk to the valet manager. When my husband called and talked to him, we were met downstairs by the manager and taxied to and from the restaurant. Our valet parking was also comped for the stay.

Not that I want to harp on the subject, but the above is a humorous account of our weekend jaunt. I must say, by now, my husband and I know how to play off each other and play the system the way we need to, in our own best interests. It's sad that we have to do that, no?

The rest of the stay was relatively uneventful. However, I can recommend the Van Gogh show to anyone and the Amex packages are definitely worth the cost.

[This message has been edited by gabbysz (edited 02-01-99).]

It sounds like you have the system down pat. I guess there are benefits and downsides to being either gender.

Phil

Yes, there are benefits to being of either gender... but again WHY SHOULD EITHER SEX BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY???

As elite in any airline, hotel or car rental program Gabbysz you should have been accorded the same treatment and respect and services as your husband or ANYONE. (Someday I'll explain why I have this equal attitude, but this is not the forum for it.)

Gabby: you have managed to make some stupid habits by people work for you, and I salute you. CATMAN

Am posting from a free "Check Your E-Mail" computer at Moscone (Semicon). There is a long line of folk patiently waiting behind me so I don't have time to get into this topic, but thought I would bring it forward so I wouldn't forget when I get back home.

Always enjoy a good sexist debate. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

arturo tri two take debait oot of sexist wiff consuelo an consuelo elways want to debait.

arturo - the tree is watching you...